Do you practice less often because you hate restringing? I sort of do.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by DeShaun, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    So, I practice with one frame only strung with nylon for longevity; but then, my game day sticks are actually strung with poly.

    Any problems with doing this?
    I would prefer to be practicing with freshly strung poly, but I dislike having every few days to restring frames with which I never even played a match but only practiced with.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
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  2. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Not sure what poly you play - but I play about 10+ hours with signum pro tornado and hyperion 17G in hybrids. I am not using multi mains/poly cross but play poly mains/multi cross quite a bit over last 2 years too. I using play about 6-8 hours as my main racket for league matches and then use it as a practice racket for another 2-4 practices.

    My opinion is signum pro last a bit longer than most polys and a hybrid also helps in keeping the racket playable for longer.
     
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  3. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I hear you about dealing with the limited life (when used or not), of poly strings. However, I've been using Luxilon Adrenaline for a while now. It has a surprisingly long standby life when not in use. When in use, I can get anywhere from 10-15 hours of hard hitting from a string job. It's a bit softer than ie: ALU Power, so you have to string it 5-10 lbs tighter to get a similar feel.
     
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  4. Kam2010

    Kam2010 Rookie

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    I don't like restringing either, enjoyed it at first but I just can't be bothered.

    I decided to keep using until the string breaks, if the racket feels really crap either too springy or stiff like a stone wall I leave it and pick another racket out the bag and try that.

    I only then cut the strings if it plays just the same, a few weeks later or i just leave it and use another racket.
     
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  5. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I usually only play one official match a week so i use a brand new string job for the match and then use the other stick which is less than a week old for practice. Then after my match that racket is my practice stick, so i am never playing with a very old string job. But you have to resting at least once a week.
     
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  6. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    You guys must be hitting like a beast. It takes me months to break a full bed of polys strung at 55 lbs. My rackets are all 100 sq inches.
     
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  7. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    I'm not breaking strings but noticing their performance drop below what's good for my arm. Restringing poly is required, IMO, when the bed begins encouraging injury even while it may remain playable.
     
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  8. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Its all in your head, go find a place with a string bed tester and test the beds before you cut your strings.
     
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  9. Hi I'm Ray

    Hi I'm Ray Hall of Fame

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    Not something I would personally do. I'd break nylon/syn gut in about the same amount of time poly goes dead, if not sooner. So it wouldn't make sense for me to practice with one kind of string and play with a different one during matches.
     
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  10. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    So you think that the way poly loses playability is all in his head huh. Well whatever you want to think go ahead but anyone that does not notice the difference in the way poly plays new compared to after a few hours use has not used poly much.
     
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  11. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Lol I didnt say that it doesnt feel different.....

    I said go have the string bed tested prior to cutting your strings. See what, if any tension loss.

    We all know the disadvantages of polystrings losing tension due to simply age. But with the advange of technology, prestretching and additional filaments manufactures have increased the longevity of strings.

    If you've played with poly strings from the beginning, you may just expect the loss of tension and may feel it even when there has not be any significant loss after a couple of hours.
     
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  12. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Any string starts to lose tension right after it is strung, poly especially loses a lot of tension. Are you really trying to say that after hitting with poly that there will be no tension loss? The manufacturers have not done anything to increase the longevity of poly, they have increased their marketing BS to fool people but that is all they have done.

    Pre stretching does not increase the life of poly string. A poly string is one solid piece so i don't know what you are talking about additional filaments. I thought the subject was poly strings not multi's.

    With any poly string after some time hitting it loses its resiliency and playability, it does not matter what a string bed tester says. There is more to it than just tension loss, which anyone who has used poly for any time can attest to.
     
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  13. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    My arm is made of steel then :) because I could play polys until they break, to boost sometimes first gen poly like Polylon.

    Sure I notice some difference in feel but it's not really significant to warrant a cut out. I only cut it when the mains become way too separate and time consuming to rearrange them, or some strings look like they'll break within games.

    Don't you have a stringer at home? Stringing is easy and relatively cheap. Only time consuming. I even do the lazy way which is double-pulling and no ill effect yet ..LOL.
     
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  14. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Ok pro, you go replace your strings after a couple of hours of play. No problems.....

    Incidentally what poly do you use right now?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
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  15. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Give Big Ace Micro from Pro Supex a try.

    I get plenty of time with it with very little drop off in the characteristics.
    Use a full set with it and no arm probs, even when it's old.
     
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  16. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    connico makes good points. For practical purposes none of us recreational players go out and restring after a few games or a few hours of hitting like pros do. So all the talks about tension loss is kinda moot.
     
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  17. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    ^^Agreed with connico. If you're injuring yourself because of a string and you're under the age of 50, there's something wrong with the way you're hitting.

    I play with dead poly all the time during high school season. I've never gotten an injury. If anything, I feel strain in my legs and feet than my shoulders or arms. Don't worry.

    Dead poly only hurts people with poor technique and/or fragile bodies.

    While I completely agree with you, there's no need for him to cut out his strings every time the poly loses playability. It's not completely unplayable, anyway. You can still easily get relatively heavy topspin with dead poly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
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  18. tlm

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    I never said to change strings every couple of hours, that is your sarcastic comment. I said that poly will change its performance after a few hours, never said it was unplayable. There is a big difference in using a full job as opposed to using a hybrid which plays better longer than a full poly job.

    I use rpm team 17 g. and i change it once a week. I play 5-7 days a week all year round. I usually play 1 official match a week and always use a new string job for that, then after another practice match or so that racket is my practice racket then i string another new one for the next match. So usually the longest i go with a string job is a week and a half or so.

    There are times in the summer i am hitting twice a day so my strings take a beating and i feel the difference when they lose their playability, which is also when the shock on the body greatly increases. I buy the rpm by the spool so for a whopping $10 a week i can play with a consistent good playing and feeling string.
     
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  19. tlm

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    You think that no matter what if you are under a certain age that even with dead poly only bad technique can cause injury? Wow to say that you are off on this subject some would be a big understatement.

    You claim that you play with dead poly all the time and have never been injured yet, well thats great but remember that never is a long time. I know many of the local high school players that have developed arm and shoulder problems from using old dead poly repeatedly.

    Just because you have gotten away with this so far is not a good reason to be passing along dangerous advise to others. A hitting partner of mine who coaches one of the local high school teams found out the hard way. This guy is in great shape with beautiful technique, but would play with old dead poly for way to long.

    I told him he should change it more often but he is to tight and trys to save money by not restringing often. Well he got a bad case of TE that took him a long time to get over, so he learned the lesson the hard way. Which is why i am trying to help others avoid this problem.
     
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  20. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    I will look into this. Thank you :)
     
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  21. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Dude I told the dude to go test this string bed, not the tension; and to test the string bed before he cuts his string. You jump in with comments about "no" it changes blah blah blah blah. Your posts infer that once you lose performance on your poly/co-poly (poly strings with other stuff mixed into the string) strings you should replace them. For most rec players this is not required or financially feasible till the strings are dead or are causing harm through feedback.

    The primary reason for TE is poor choices of equipment (racquet, string, tension etc) and technique. There has been no research that says TE is caused by dead tennis string.

    Dead strings is a term overly used to say that a string bed has lost its performance. Lost of performance leads to a player over compensating. Over compensating leads to poor technique... which leads to injury...

    Now if a player doesnt over compensate when they have a "dead" strings they subsequently don't get injuried becase they are utilising good technique.

    Now consider this. Player A strings his racquets at 60, player B strings his racquet at 30 (yeah its low)... Does that mean that player A will get TE if he switched to 25?

    How often do I replace my strings? Every 1-2 weeks it depends on amount of times played and also the performance I want from my strings; also I don't pay between 40-60 bucks which what I charge others to restring a racquet.

    BTW, if your playing in really scorching temperatures and you want to maintain the same string performance you should consider upping your tension....
     
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  22. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    and before you all jump all over Connico for charging 40 - 60 bucks for a restring, you need to know that BB, for example, goes for $25.00 a set or $400.00 a reel in this country..

    40 - 60 bucks is what we ALL charge!

    I don't restring as often as most people, maybe every couple of months. I either coach or play every single day and I don't really notice much loss in performance from a full poly job.
     
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  23. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    Well yeah, because they probably used bad technique, or a bad racquet.

    Whatever you say man. Some coaches may look like they have good technique, but in fact they have hitches here and there. My coach also had good-looking technique, but he developed arm problems. The reality is, he didn't have sound form. He had full body rotation, sure, it was smooth, but he still armed the ball.

    You need to separate what LOOKS good from what is actually good form. Look at Juan Del Potro; his strokes look so ugly and terrible, but he's actually using very sound form. Now take your average 4.0 at the club; 80% of them are arming the living crap out of the ball.

    You probably knew the weaker high school players. I played many kids I got to know a while ago who used full poly, they didn't have any history of arm troubles. Funny how the singles players in my county don't ever leave the season, injuring their arms, when some of our lower-spotted doubles players have to skip the tournament due to arm pains.

    You can do your way, tlm. Let them fix their problem by changing their string. Yeah, that'll help. It's like taking a malfunctioning car from the landfill and giving it a new coat of paint.

    How do you justify other players not getting TE or arm problems from using full poly setups, hmm?

    I've used REALLY harsh-sounding setups, dude. Full Prince Beast XP at 61 lbs? Done that for 2 months. No shock to the arm, no pain.

    ...and how is asking them to "improve their technique" dangerous advice? That's the sure-fire way to prevent injury, not switch to a softer string. If anything, I'd say rest your arm a bit, then go to a local pro, top junior, or college player and ask them how to hit properly.

    Unless it's some freak accident or a physiological condition, then yeah. What else could possibly cause injury in younger players, then? Justify yourself. Don't just attack me, back yourself up. The last thing I want is this antagonism, and it's clear that you've come off on not only me, but the other posters in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
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  24. tlm

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    You told the dude to go test his stringbed? What do you mean by that? I would think that it means to check the tension. There has been no study proving that TE comes from poor choice of equipment, string, or tension.

    If you are changing your strings every 1-2 weeks then you are not using them for a really long time with them dead depending on how many times a week you hit.

    I would suggest to anyone that is really into tennis to get their own stringing machine, the money saved will pay for itself in no time. With your own machine and buying spools the cost is very inexpensive to restring as often as needed. By the way i string my rackets at 68 lbs. so i don't need to up the tension for the summer heat.
     
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  25. Jay_The_Nomad

    Jay_The_Nomad Professional

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    Wow. Where are u guys from?

     
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  26. tlm

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    So let me see some coaches may look good but they have hitches and bad technique, but the high school students like you have perfect form. Okay that sounds a lot like reality, this is hilarious.

    Your example of delporto is not very good because just a couple of years ago he missed an entire season because he had wrist surgery. So you say that most of the 4.0 club players are arming the crap out of the ball, but yet the high school players are not. Wow this is the exact opposite with the exception being the top high school players in the state.

    Nobody is fixing their problems by changing strings often it is preventing problems. I guess that the pro players that change their strings every half hour or so must be making up for their bad technique.

    Just because you know some people that get away with old dead poly now does not mean that they will always avoid injury and it definitely does not mean that everyone will get away with this. I never once suggested that having a player improve their technique is bad advise. I don't know where you dreamed that one up.

    The problem with this discussion is that so many players don't have enough money to restring as often as they should which i understand, but instead of admitting that they come up with all this BS for these great reasons to not string often
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
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  27. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

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    Well that's kind of weird because most people break nylon in about an hour of play.

    I would personally practice and play with the same setup.

    Just get off your butt and string the racket!

    Or use natural gut. If you don't break strings then gut has the best feel, some of the best tension maintenance, and great spin characteristics. You just can't get the strings wet or subject them to huge temperature fluctuations.
     
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  28. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    I guess my county is an exception; there's a very strong tennis scene here.

    Many coaches teach the traditional, old-style strokes, but now they're hurting themselves due to the lighter racquets. They certainly understand the principles of the game, but some cannot apply them well at all. They rotate their bodies, they're smooth, but they move their arm up to the ball. In fact, many of the high school coaches in my county do this.

    Well, Del Potro is fine now. He can still kill the ball, he can still destroy almost all of us in a match. He's still a top professional. Some say Murray's forehand looks disgusting, but no injury there.

    Well, I'm certain that fixing technique will clear the problem almost completely. Simple enough, right?

    I'm certain I don't have complete, perfect form. But I have enough form to prevent injury.

    Then yeah, stick with whatever string you have and just improve your technique. Easy, problem solved.

    What was the bad advice I gave, then, btw?

    It's not like I'm suggesting to keep dead poly on your racquet until it breaks or something. Dead poly doesn't even play optimally, anyway. However, it most certainly punishes you for using bad technique. The simplest, most logical route is to fix up your strokes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
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  29. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Australia.. If I wanted to buy, say, a Prestige at my local pro shop I woul dbe looking at $300.00 AUD.

    (and our dollar is (mostly) worth more than yours!)
     
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  30. The Wreck

    The Wreck Semi-Pro

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    Glad there's someone, who's a high level player, who actually feels that way too.

    Even if the poly isn't as great as it was during the first 5 or 6 hours, it's still plenty playable for me. Plus, I'll break it way before it gets to the dead/unplayable point.
     
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  31. connico

    connico Rookie

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    1. There are a heap of studies, I think his argument ends here. If you know nothing about TE than its not worth me responding to this aspect of the converstatoin

    2. I change them 1-2 weeks because I can. I've played with strings that have lost performance and don't like it. But i've also played with very dead strings for an extended period of time, whilst I didnt like the feeling I didnt get injuried

    3. 68lbs? On poly?? Wow... if its a cold morning do you still play with the same tension??

    4. Testing the string bed is not testing the tension. String bed testing is an elabourate way to see how the string bed performs at certain strung tension. Some people like 2 string approach to stringing because it produces more even string beds. More consistent tension around the string bed.

    The reason to test the string bed is to test the deflection / stiffness of a string bed as well as how consistent the string job is. A few tools floating around to do this.
     
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  32. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Lol thats why we are on here. I get MSV hex for like 3/4 of the local rep price delivered from TT.
     
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  33. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Lol, EXACTLY! Even with discounts from the reps, EVERYTHING ends up cheaper from TW..
     
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  34. tlm

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    I know plenty about TE which i am sure is much more than you do. There have been many studies on many subjects but just because there is a study done does not mean that it proves anything one way or the other.

    The majority of people that get TE have never even touched a tennis racket. And again because you have used dead poly and had no problems does not mean that it is a good practice.

    Some people are a lot more likely to get TE than others, so being on the safe side is the way to go. I know players that have missed over a year suffering from TE. So really like someone else suggested to be really safe use natural gut which is good advise.

    But it is very expensive and if the player is a string breaker then it would be out of reason to use. I like the performance of poly but i know i am taking a risk because of more shock from poly string. That is why it takes some of the risk away by changing it more often.
     
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  35. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Ok pro, scientific study from sports medicine labs and institutes on the causes of tennis elbow mean swat. Ill believe some guy on the internet..

    BTW we are on a tennis forum talking about tennis strings and how it effect injury. Just so you don't forget. O thats right you already did.

    Agree with everything else that was in the post.. so didnt quote it.
     
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  36. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    Tennis elbow is soreness on the outside or the elbow, also indicated by a painful wrist or strain on the lateral epicondyle.

    Weird... how do strings injure your elbow or wrist? Your hand, if anything, is to take the shock and transmit to your shoulder, not stop the shock at the wrist.

    Tennis elbow is most obviously caused by poor technique in tennis. The shock shouldn't stop at the wrist/outer elbow. That doesn't make sense. If I raised my hand you tried to high five it like a tennis forehand, you shouldn't hurt your elbow. If anything, your hand should be a bit sore afterward, that's all. In a tennis forehand, however, your hand is holding a racquet. The racquet should take most of the shock, not your wrist/elbow.

    It's simple; if you get TE from tennis, the technique is to blame.

    Heck you are going to feel more shock from poly. But the hand feels it, not the wrist. Proper technique ensures that whatever ball comes your way, even a really heavy ball, your body can handle it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
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  37. tlm

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    And what did your famous studies prove? You keep talking about all these studies but you never say exactly what these studies proved.
     
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  38. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Wow this thread is way over the top. As Johnny Mac would say- you can't be serious!!!!!!!
     
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  39. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    It's funny that you have not answered my questions directly in the past couple of posts. You just post things like this without supporting yourself. Come on man. There's no use arguing here when your biggest comeback is this two-sentence wonder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
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  40. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Lol.. prove, studies are studies. They offer the reader and the medical science community a better understanding of the human body through research.

    Regardless if you look at the website pedmed you can get good references to research papers; such as

    1. Research advancement of the tennis elbow
    2. Natural course in tennis elbow-lateral epicondylitis after all
    3. etc

    You will find more information on the causes, treatment of tennis elbow. What the research papers suggest is that the primary cause of tennis elbow are repetitive tasks and over exertion. Impact and vibration to the elbow are not the primary causes.
     
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  41. tlm

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    Yes i have read that many times that TE is a repetitive use injury, that is old news.

    You claimed earlier that TE was from poor choice of racket , string, or technique. Where is the study that claims that at?

    Now you come up with study's that say nothing about tennis equipment. So i wonder which one are you talking about.
     
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  42. connico

    connico Rookie

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    Go find access to the papers and come back to me ... You should have a brain and work things out...
     
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  43. tlm

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    Of course you have no answer, because there isn't one. You claim that TE is from bad equipment and technique. But then tell me about studies that say TE is from repetitive stress which is commonly known. But now that i ask for these studies that support your claim you avoid the subject, i guess that is all that you can do since you are proven wrong.
     
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  44. pkshooter

    pkshooter Semi-Pro

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    Doesn't poly last a lot longer then nylon. Synth last like 1/3 of the time right? Confused somebody I don't get it.
     
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