Do you still think Fed needs a coach?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by sureshs, May 20, 2009.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    His tactical changes include playing close to the baseline to take time away from Nadal, frequent drop shots to punish Nadal for standing back, hitting higher loopy backhands to get the ball up higher, and attacking the Nadal backhand with his forehand when Nadal was expecting an inside-out. Aggression without resorting to serve and volley has been the theme.

    Federer proved all of the armchair coaches here wrong, because they did not come up with these specific suggestions.

    Do you really think any coach would have thought of these novel tactics? Would they just have been a waste of Fed's hard earned money? A diversion from his own reading of the game?

    Despite all the cries for coaching, I think Fed proved everyone wrong. I don't think anyone can help him in the FO either, as no one came close to coming up with creative ideas for the Madrid final.
     
  2. srvnvly

    srvnvly Professional

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    I do think Fed needs a coach. He had a great run in Madrid, but Rafa will no doubt adjust his game. Also, Fed may be a bit distracted when the baby comes; a coach could help provide focus.

    A reverse question could be: For those pros that have coaches and are successful, should they keep their coaches, or dump them and save their money?
     
  3. Puma

    Puma Rookie

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    I'm gonna have to disagree. I don't think Fed proved anyone wrong. I think he played well, at altitude, against a somewhat tired or "flat" Nadal, served well when he needed it and he won.

    I think what Fed was able to do was somewhat (difficult to measure) dictated by Nadal and his lower than normal level of play.

    I watched the match and was surprised at the lack of sting Nadals game had. Don't know how to measure that either, but it sure seemed to me that Nadal was flat.

    What I do find really good to watch with those two is that either one of them can dictate play at any one moment. Lately, its been Fed who missed, shanked, stayed too far back, low first serve percentage etc and lost. I look forward to the times when both can play at a high level. That makes for really good tennis to watch.

    So, I still think Fed needs a coach. Staying back on a slow clay surface won't make for a good final no matter how good he serves.....
     
  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I agree that Fed was able to win because Nadal was tired from his recent wins while Federer had many more resting days, but my point is that Fed was able to use the opportunity and try some new ideas. Whether he can implement them again in RG or even if it makes sense to do so, I don't know. But I cannot think of anything else he can do, other than coming to the net frequently. I don't think Federer can play better than he did in Madrid even with expert coaching, while Nadal will play at a whole different level in Paris.
     
  5. R_Federer

    R_Federer Professional

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    Cant wait for Nadal to reach the French Open final "tired" as well and the excuses to pour out if Federer happens to beat him in the final. Wouldnt that be something. "Oh he was tired man".
     
  6. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    No one will even take a set off Nadal.
     
  7. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    I'm sure Fed gets a lot of tactical advice from Luthi. Why else would he travel around with the guy.
     
  8. Federer_pilon

    Federer_pilon Semi-Pro

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    To carry his bags around...
     
  9. gsquicksilver

    gsquicksilver Semi-Pro

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    dude, u can't base everything on just one match.

    until fed proves it consistently by beating nadal, then we can say screw the critics.
     
  10. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    Mirka does that for him:)
     
  11. thetaxman

    thetaxman New User

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    He doesn't 'need' a coach. A psyche booster would be better but I think he just did that to himself at Madrid..
     
  12. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    That's a stupid statement. Nadal will win FO w/o losing a set? Are you going to eat dirt if Nadal get upset? There is no guarantee in sports. A lot of things can happen. I am not saying Fed will win, but others could upset Nadal, although very unlikely. But that doesn't mean it can't happen. So don't bet the house yet.

    So is it true that every time Nadal lost a match, it's either he was tired, got blister, the surface was not to his liking, the altitude was not at sea level, and his shorts was too tight for him to pick his ass.

    You forgot that Nadal played one fewer match than Fed so for a 22 year old who everyone claimed to be tip top shape for tennis, got tired from a 1 hour match against Djoko and 3 hours waiting between points. That pretty much sums up Nadal's fitness level. Are you supposed to be in great shape at 22, let alone a top professional athlete.

    Could it be that Nadal didn't play well because it had something to do with what Fed did on Sunday?
     
  13. RalphNYC

    RalphNYC Semi-Pro

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    Nadal will lose. His inferior game hasn't taken long to figure out (unlike Fed's). And it's not just Fed anymore who can, and will, beat him. Adios Rafa!
     
  14. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    You better tell that to JMac because that is what he said.
     
  15. welcome2petrkordaland

    welcome2petrkordaland Semi-Pro

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    TENNIS BUM, lemme save you the headache. rafa'll grab Roland Garros #5 this year with the loss of 3 sets or less. If Djokovic ends up in Fed's 1/2, you can forget about it-Fed ain't beatin' both Djokovic and Nadal on slow clay. If Djokovic is in Nadal's 1/2, Fed could take Nadal to 4 . . . maybe, if he makes final. Just don't want you to get your hopes up.

    To answer the question on this thread, absolutely yes.
     
  16. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Fed just needs someone to put him in the right direction again, whether it's a coach, a shrink, or whatever. It's the consistency I see from Rafa that I want to see from Fed. I don't want to see him win a tourny only for him to lose the next 5. Just look at the recent US Open, Fed sure played great, but couldn't keep it going in Madrid and Paris, and of course the TMC.
     
  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I don't think overall consistency is a priority for Fed now. It may be important to Davydenko, but not to Fed. All he wants is enough consistency to win one more Slam or the FO or both at once. And in that Slam, he wants to win against Nadal, not be overly consistent while playing the Blakes and Almagros. If Fed wins many tournaments, but not another Slam, his consistency will not be praised.
     
  18. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Nadal played 1 fewer match than Fed? Nadal has played 45 matches this season, Fed 32. Nadal has played 20 matches on clay so far, Fed 11. Funny Nadal has played almost twice as many! Nadal has played 4 finals on clay, Fed 1.
    Sure, I can clearly see how much fresher Nadal actually was.
     
  19. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Don't forget that Fed is still suffering from the effects of mono.
     
  20. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    No, now it's bad back (he recycles his excuses every year)
     
  21. Ouch! My knees!
     
  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    His FO loss this year will be due to attention diverted to Mirka and the baby. Madrid will become a proof of what he could have done if he was focused.
     
  23. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Federer has played 798 career matches. Nadal's played only 357. Clearly Federer is more worn out.
     
  24. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    Again, you never stop amaze me to show little your head is. Yes, as far as the season goes, Nadal played a lot of tennis. If he is too tired to play an event, then don't show up. I was making reference to the matches in Madrid only. Stay on the topic. Obviously, if you have a successful season, then you are bound to play more total matches than anyone else, simply because you advance very deep into the tournaments and win many of them as Nadal did.

    But stay on Madrid please. Again, if a 22 year top tennis player is too tired to play until the final, then he should either retire from the game or not play that tournament or take up golf instead.
     
  25. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    I thought the topic of this thread was -
    Do you still think Fed needs a coach?
     
  26. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    Sureshs- I think Fed made some adjustments in Madrid that helped him win. I also think the situation presented itself where a win was more viable than in other past clay court encounters with Nadal. However, I would not conclude that Fed would not benefit from the advice of a coach going forward.

    What concerns me the most is this win could serve to reinforce Fed's view that he altered his tactics sufficiently to upset Rafa at the FO. If he truly believes this, I think we will see yet another defeat, assuming he even makes it to the finals.

    Rafa is the one player that has proven time and time again he is willing and able to adapt his game, in real time if required. I do not see this kind of flexibility or willingness on the part of Federer in his approach to the game. His style and mindset are more aligned with that of a classical musician where the sheet music dictates what is played, and the execution is the only thing that alters the quality of the performance. In contrast, Rafa is the ultimate jazz player who can improvise his way through any piece without missing a beat.

    Until we see this kind of flexibility and approach to the game from Federer, I'm afraid that Rafa will continue to have the upper hand on clay and likely other surfaces as well. A coach that understands the need to adapt his style in real time could help Federer gain more control of the outcome instead of having to rely on extenuating circumstances to help him achieve his goal of a FO title and/or breaking Sampras' record.
     
  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    If a 28 year old player keeps losing, he should not blame it, more than once, on mono and bad back, and that too strategically announce it after the loss but before the match is forgotten.
     
  28. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    ROFL..This is such BS..Roger announced he had mono after he found out about it.And he spoke about his back problem after he decided to pull out of
    two events ahead.He did not say he lost the AO because of the bad back.
    According to his fitness trainer the troubles started after the final.He atleast did not feel any pain during the AO.
     
  29. All-rounder

    All-rounder Legend

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    He was referring to the madrid tourney not the whole clay court season Nadal had a walkover during Madrid federer didn't so even if nadal spent longer on the court that's his fault
     
  30. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    4th final in a month (vs 1st final in 4 months) + 4 hour match with less than 24 hour recovery. It doesn't matter what the guy's name is, noone is limitless.
    It's also a strategic choice of course, I'm sure Nadal didn't try to go "all out" in that final (it was clearly apparent to all observers) because he had no desire to jeopardize his RG chances over a less significant title.
     
  31. 380pistol

    380pistol Banned

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    Yes he needs a coach.
     
  32. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    He had a walk over but a much tougher draw as well. I wouldn't have liked the chances of Fed even making the final if he had had Nadal's draw.
     
  33. doublebreak

    doublebreak Rookie

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    I've seen many people suggesting changes to his game around those lines. I posted my suggestions a couple of months ago (below) just for the sake of it, I don't claim to be a coach or anything remotely close. I think he can do great without a coach, it's just a matter of being less stubborn and trying a few different things. I'm glad he got this mental boost and maybe he can build on top of it.

     
  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    ^^^ good job. You scored in 2 areas: drop shot and standing close to the baseline. Not bad at all.
     
  35. velkov

    velkov Rookie

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    Fed needs a coach for sure - otherwise again letdown at rg !!
     
  36. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Nadal has actually played 457 matches.
     
  37. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    In that case,Roger was also too tired to beat Nadal in Rome 06 final because of his battle with Nalby(true it wasnt looong but then that could be due points played faster and no medical time-outs:wink:)
    Obviously he was winning like crazy that year.
     
  38. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

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    Isn't Nadal the one now complaining that the tennis year is too tough? Didn't Federer just manage almost 4 consecutive years at #1? Nadal is just a whiner, he has to play all out to get the results he gets. Meanwhile Fed is only now showing signs of injury at 28. i.e. Fed had to work a lot less harder to achieve what he did. He is excessively more skilled. Anytime he loses he will always be too tired. Had he won Madrid, it would have been more false praise and saying look how tired I was yet I STILL managed to beat you. Pathetic.
     
  39. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

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    798 >>> 457.
     
  40. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Dont agree with this at all...this is too subjective and not factual in any sense.
    Rest of your post-Well..again its how we look at it.but I dont disagree there,for sure.
     
  41. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal's number is still pretty high..but he plays more tourney's so he has to bear its consequences-good or bad.
     
  42. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

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    Yes but he did complain about the season being too tough and having to defend so much. He does not need to play so much, it's his choice. Even if he did not defend so much he would still maintain number as long as he wins the majority of what he enters. So agreed, he has to bear the consequences, but then he should not complain about it.
     
  43. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    High caliber players like world #1 who go deep into every tournament, pull in the crowds, keep the sport monetarily feasible in this economy, etc. have every right to voice their concerns about the schedule. Nadal is also on the ATP players council and is obligated to voice the concerns of hard working players. Other players who don't win any tournaments for months don't face such issues.
     
  44. P_Agony

    P_Agony Banned

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    Funny. When Fed suffers from a bad back or mono - those are just excuses.

    When Nadal losses a match, saying he was tired isn't an excuse, it's a legit reason.

    The hypocrisy here is growing by the minute.
     
  45. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Clay court tennis is more physically demanding than hard court tennis. Also big servers spend less energy in rallies than others. What else is new? Thank god, not all players are big servers because tennis would become the most boring sport on the planet and no channel would ever show even 5 minutes of it.
    As far as fitness and stamina are concerned, the most complicated feat is to sweep the grass season after sweeping the clay one. In 2008 Nadal won 4 clay events and 2 grass ones, 6 tournaments in all in less than 3 months (of which 2 masters and 2 slams). That is way more difficult than winning a couple hard court events in the winter, a couple more in the summer and in the fall. The hard court events are spaced out at comfortable intervals.
    Nadal didn't just OWN clay and grass in 2008, he also won some major titles on hard, he's a fitness and endurance monster.
    Now about Madrid, who would recover easily from an intense 4 hour match in less than 24 hours (coming toward the end of a season after a lot of matches played)? Nobody. So there is absolutely no reason to single out Nadal in this discussion because nobody would.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
  46. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    He actually needs to play that much. All top players have to play around 20 tournaments every year. Nadal plays strictly what he has to, nothing more, nothing less.
     
  47. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is right. No fancy exhibition matches for him in 5 star resorts around the world with tons of appearance money. Just plain old hard work.
     
  48. tennisplaya

    tennisplaya Rookie

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    Whilst Federer played some good tactics it still will not be enough When Nadal converts the break points next time so he still needs a coach.
     
  49. tennisplaya

    tennisplaya Rookie

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    I thought some guy called Luthi was his coach, why are people not crediting Luthi with Federer's new tactics?
     
  50. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    he needs a coach.

    let's be pragmatic: the madrid win is probably just 1 win out of many losses on clay.
    if not because of the Djokovic match, if not because Fed executed perfectly some of his shots, he wouldn't have won. However, u can't depend on a long Nadal match every time, and u can't depend on good execution every time. what if his plan doesn't work and he starts to have many UEs? does he have a plan B to reduce his UEs, and just to stick with Nadal game by game?
     

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