Does 4G suck? Are we getting 14g?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by J011yroger, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Didn't see much about it, and can't search because of 3 char min.

    J
     
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  2. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Some people on here live by it. I personally, do not like it much, it feels underpowered and dull. But that's just me and I certainly don't speak for anybody on this forum.

    Only way to tell is to try it out yerself.
     
    #2
  3. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I will likely try a set if/when it comes out in something thicker than 16g.

    Can anyone comment on durability compared to BBO?

    J
     
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  4. TW Staff

    TW Staff Administrator

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    Towards the end of Jan 2013 it will be available in 15 gauge (1.41mm).

    I have found the durability to be inline with Original, if not better. Playability lasts well, too, so not as much of a concern if several days go by between hitting sessions. I've hit 4G in many, many racquets and I really like that string.

    Yesterday I hit it in a Jack Kramer Pro Staff strung around 38lbs and it felt awesome. Lots of control and bite to help the ball dip inside the lines after 13.5 ounces of timber had sent it flying.

    Chris, TW
     
    #4
  5. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Far more durable and comfortable than BBO. Outstanding tension maintenance, comparable to natural gut.

    Most attractive aspect to me is its control. NOTHING else comes close when used as a cross with gut mains.

    I have two frames strung with VS/4G and the third is used to compare other poly crosses. All frames are matched for weight, balance, and SW.

    Repeatedly I've tried a different cross, many with which I was pleased prior to 4G's release. In every case I go right back to 4G. Nothing else inspires such confidence in my strokes.

    It's definitely low powered, especially as it ages. Even then it still retains some pop and isn't uncomfortable.

    It lacks the spin potential of other polys which is the one reason I'm willing to keep dorking around with other polys. And yet as a cross with gut mains I still get excellent spin.

    There has been much hype around 4G, especially the "good as gold" tag line. In this case, it really is accurate imo. It's NOT for everyone. If you prefer lower power and tons of control you'll fall in love with it. If you want power and maybe more spin, you might be disappointed.

    For me, it's my Broke Back String. "I just can't quit it!" :D
     
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  6. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    It is my go to string in a hybrid with nv.y in the crosses. Great feel, touch, control, and long lasting playability. It maintains the poly honeymoon longer than any other I have tried. A good match for my game and my relatively powerful and spin friendly racquet (volkl X 8 )
     
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  7. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    Getting a ton of hype. I would say a total waste of money for anyone who is not 5.0 or higer that can create a ton of racket head speed and has very long strokes. To use it as a cross with nat gut.. I have no idea.. byt at that price, I think I could find a better cross for less money. if you are a very high end player, DI or up.. go for it. For the average player, super low power, great control.. not the best spin production when using in a full bed or in mains. This string is not for everyone to be sure. Hated it.. but then again...so did others.. but others loved it.
     
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  8. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    You mean it is super slick, and natural gut mains can not make a dent in it and lock in place?
     
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  9. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    I think that in full bed or as main with gut crosses or good synthetic gut crosses it could work well in a powerful racket like the APD, Extreme, Pure Drive, etc. The control it gives could counterbalance the power of those rackets. I wil test it next week full bed at 46 pounds in the new 2012 APD.
    Ive heard its a good string to use as a cross string with gut mains,
     
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  10. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    It is slick but not as slick as others and 4G unfortunately does dent over time. This is the one feature which keeps me looking for The Ultimate Holy Grail of Poly Crosses. 4G simply doesn't provide as much spin potential as other strings such as Pro Hurricane Tour and Solinco's Outlast.

    That being said, it still provides far more spin potential than full poly or full gut. One reassuring event: while using VS/4G I've had three friends recently tell me that I hit with the most spin they've ever faced (remember, we're only crica 3.0/3.5, so it's not like I'm getting compared to Nadal...just other low level rec peasants, err, players.)

    I tried VS/4G down around 49/45 in one of my PSGT's and it felt a bit mushy. I'm sticking with VS/4G at 55/51 in my two primary frames. For the third Test Frame I might try VS/4G at 54/49 to reduce pressure on the crosses a bit. Or I might give Outlast another try. Outlast looked like it would be the perfect cross but the tension loss was tremendous over time with a significant loss in control, at least relative to 4G. But spin potential for VS/Outlast was insane and highly addictive. It's just that at my level precision and consistency are more important than hard topspin shots. I should note too that Outlast barely dents at all over time and it's super slick. The mains just glide over the crosses.
     
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  11. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks much.

    J
     
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  12. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks for the replies. I'll likely try a full set, and an ALU hybrid when the 15g comes out.

    J
     
    #12
  13. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    two questions

    1) what kind of machine do you use to resting a wood racquet?

    2) how did you get the idea to use full poly in a jkps?
     
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  14. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    A Prince Neos will string a wood frame. I've strung full poly in wood, it's just a natural "What about" thought :)
     
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  15. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

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    How about 17 gauge? I think 1.20 will be money.
     
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  16. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Few things:

    Go to google and search by typing "talk tennis" and then what you want to read. Its a game changer.

    Second - this stuff for me is the real deal. I have some video posted if you are curious how I hit. Anyway, it is a control string that is suprising durable and only loses a total of 5 pounds of tension for me.
     
    #16
  17. DonBot

    DonBot Semi-Pro

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    I just tried 4G in my Volkl C10 pros per Chris' suggestions in his review. Wow absolutely amazing- I am buying a reel....the spin, power, and control is simply amazing. I felt like I could just put the ball on a dime. You really have to try it Jolly, I find it keeps up playability way longer than ALU and I actually think it plays at a higher level fresh. I thought I might be moving on from the C10 before I tried a full bed at 60....I am a convert lol
     
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  18. srvnvly

    srvnvly Professional

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    #18
  19. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with everything, except power. The string is low powered. Which is really awesome. But I would never describe this as a powerful poly. For example, I find Tour Bite or Black Magic to have a higher power level at the same tension.

    4G is a low powered control poly that is one of the best at holding tension on the market. Thats how I'd describe it.

    also, Big Hitter blue to me is nothing like it. The feel of Big Hitter is not as good, nor is the durability of the string.
     
    #19
  20. srvnvly

    srvnvly Professional

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    Thanks Power Player! 4G seems to be the recommended string for the new Steam 99S - is there a multi remotely close to 4G?
     
    #20
  21. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    4G is a poly, so ...no...lol.

    Or what do you mean exactly?

    The only multi I have used even close at all (and not really) to a poly is RIP Control.

    Maybe Lux Adrenaline?
     
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  22. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    #22
  23. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    GENIUS!!!!!

    Link to video?

    How long does 4g last for compared to ALU, BBO, or Ashaway 16?

    J
     
    #23
  24. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Ditto!

    10char
     
    #24
  25. DonBot

    DonBot Semi-Pro

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    I agree this is a low powered string, but maybe I should be saying I love how heavy my ball is instead of using the word power. I feel like the ball just explodes off the string bed and will stay in not matter how hard I swing.
     
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  26. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q



    Excuse my lazy dropping left hand. Video helped me see I had to fix that...

    ALU lasted me 5 hours or so before death. 4G lasts me twice as long. I measured the tension maintenance loss from off my stringer to death and the bed only lost 5 pounds. I cross with synthetic gut and use an 18x20 Blade, so keep that in mind. String breakage is not as big of an issue as it was for me with more open patterns.

    BBO - same thing. Dies after 5-6 hours and then breaks or just bugs the arm.

    4G may move on you after 6 hours or do (possibly - depends on the cross) but just keeps going. You will know when it is dead because your control will go away, but you will see it coming from a mile away and have already switched to a fresh stick.
     
    #26
  27. canny

    canny Rookie

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    how does it compare to a full bed of lux adren?
     
    #27
  28. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    That being said, what is the real advantage then of "Nat Gut/4G" vs. a full bed of Nat Gut??? (Besides the cost).
     
    #28
  29. JonnyAbs

    JonnyAbs New User

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    The full nat gut would give you more power, but possibly too much. The 4G would help to tame some of that. I also believe that the 4G would yield more spin and control. Nat gut is the ultimate in power/comfort.
     
    #29
  30. Rjtennis

    Rjtennis Hall of Fame

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    4G is a decent string, but it isn't for your everyday club player. It's a pretty average string across the board except it has great control and tension maintenance. Personally I'd rather pick a less expensive string and string more frequently, but I can see how it would be a great string for some. Mixing it with gut might liven it up and make it more interesting for me, but that's an expensive setup.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
    #30
  31. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    Pretty much nailed it.. Not really a string for the masses. A very average string in many ways expect for control and tension maintenance. A high end users string that comes along with a high price. You would have to be a very strong and hard hitting player to get the best attributes from this string.
     
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  32. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    **Answer not specific to 4g**

    If you swing mostly flat, if power/accuracy are the more important aspects of your game, if you volley or hit improvised shots more often, you will likely be better off with a full bed of gut.

    If spin generation is a big part of your game, if your ball dips, shoots, or jumps, you will likely be better off with the blend.

    The full bed will put more forward oomph (technical term) on the ball since the stringbed will give more horizontally as the full gut bed pockets the ball.

    The blend will give more spin as the poly crosses hold the line more and the gut mains slide up and down against them.

    This is just a very basic recommendation, and you should try both and see what you like as both are top tier stringjobs.

    Personally, I volley better with poly than with gut, because I am used to it, and have been doing it for years.

    The vast majority of players are better off with full gut; the boards understate just how much gut bites and how much spin you can get with it (also Kevlar) I can hit more spin with VS than with half the jive polys out there. *Cough* Solinco *Cough*

    J
     
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  33. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, I used a semicolon for something other than to make a 'winky face'.

    J
     
    #33
  34. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    - spin potential: I've tested full bed VS versus VS/4G hybrid in matched frames and the hybrid blows away full bed in spin potential. It's not even close. Others have tried the same experiment and reported the same result. There are other poly crosses that provide even greater spin with gut mains but they lack in other areas such as control and tension maintenance.

    - reduced power: full gut is fairly powerful. Combined with its lower spin potential controlling shot depth can be an issue unless strung at higher tensions which sort of defeats one of full gut's greatest advantages: comfort. Adding 4G crosses to the equation you tame the power of the gut while retaining or even enhancing its comfort since you can string at a lower tension.

    Balancing far higher spin potential and lower power/greater depth control is the disadvantage of gut/poly: reduced life span. Even 4G feels bad after a while or will cut through the softer gut mains. In either case the sb won't last as long as full gut.

    That being said it seems like 4G is deliberately engineered as a cross for natural gut. It shares gut's three greatest features: super low tension loss, great control, and comfort. And since gut mains with poly crosses is one of the lowest friction string beds you can have, the two strings work together to enhance spin potential.

    So 4G crosses remain playable far longer than other poly crosses.

    I've tried numerous poly crosses, many in head to head tests with 4G since its introduction. 4G gets beat in spin potential but even then it still provides outstanding spin AND it's just light years ahead of other poly crosses in extended playability, comfort, control, and freakishly low tension loss.

    As of yesterday I've given up testing other poly crosses and will be sticking with 4G until something new comes along to test. All three of my frames are now strung with 4G crosses, two at the same reference tension of 55/51 and the third at an experimental reference tension of 53/48.

    As it turns out Last night I hit with the 53/48 frame felt it was a little mushy compared to the other frames once broken in. Will probably stick to 55/51. And it looks like I'll need to restring that frame anyway. Last night the head guard on the 53/48 frame shattered. I don't even remember hitting the ground with it. I never throw my frames or abuse them deliberately. One moment it's fine, the next I see the head guard shattered and flopping around! Doh!
     
    #34
  35. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    But if you're stringing more frequently you might be spending more money in the end.

    One of the great advantages of full gut is its longevity. It gets better with age until it finally breaks. For most rec players gut is probably the MOST economical choice since it remains very control oriented over its very long life span. The initial cost is higher but over time it's actually much cheaper than other strings.

    As for VS/4G the 4G addresses one of the worst aspects of what I call Gut/Poly Hell: the poly crosses die well before the gut mains and you feel like you're wasting money on the gut. It's just that nothing else provides the unique feel and playing qualities of gut/poly. So at last we have a poly cross that at least approaches gut's extended playability and control over time while also providing higher spin potential.

    Poly crosses such as Solinco Outlast and MSV CoFocus were favorites of mine. But once I tested them in matched frames against 4G crosses the contrast was astounding. The loss in control due to tension loss was just too great compared to 4G crosses in soite of their higher spin potential. With other CHEAPER polys I was spending MORE money due to more frequent stringings.

    I don't string myself (yet) so a frame costs me about $30 in string and $20 for labor. That $50 approaches the $80 I paid for the frames themselves! But compared to other polys I save money by stringing less frequently which probably breaks even in materials but eliminates a number of labor charges which is huge.
     
    #35
  36. srvnvly

    srvnvly Professional

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    Yes, LOL, I didn't ask the right question. I currently use a full bed multi, have not experimented with a hybrid setup, and have stayed from poly for arm-saving reasons. Maybe I should ask this: Is there any poly/co-poly that would play like a multi, such as X-1, or NXT Tour? My guy says its a stretch, and I will probably stick with a multi, but "ya' nevah know."
     
    #36
  37. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Pacific_X_Force_16L_String/descpageACPACIFIC-PXF16L.html

    Feels great, pockets great, volleys great.

    That is your best bet as far as I am concerned.

    J
     
    #37
  38. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ Should be very easy on your arm as well.

    J
     
    #38
  39. srvnvly

    srvnvly Professional

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    Thank you, I like what I've read in the link. Also, your signature is one of the best movie lines EVER!
     
    #39
  40. JonnyAbs

    JonnyAbs New User

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    He mentioned Rip Control. I am not familiar with that, but I was thinking Wilson NXT Control, and they might be very similar. NXT Control is a multi-filament with both nylon and poly strands so you can get good control,spin, and durability due to the polyester and its still comfortable because of the nylon. You also wouldn't have to use it in a hybrid setup either, but you could if you wanted to.
     
    #40
  41. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with this. I think many people who playtested this string were expecting extra spin and magic to help their games. This string is better if you create your own spin and power and want great control and tension maintenance. It is not a string for people who cant generate heavy spin on their own. Basically, if you cant hit with pretty big spin using syn gut, 4g is not for you.

    I do think 4g will be a very good match for jo11ys game, but there are other subjective things that only he will know once he uses it.
     
    #41
  42. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    My two main criteria are bites really hard, lasts really long.

    Don't give a crap about tension maintenance, comfort, power, or anything else.

    J
     
    #42
  43. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    It doesnt bite as hard as alu power.

    That being said if you hit hard, it is going to be extremely rewarding for you.
     
    #43
  44. tennistomcat

    tennistomcat Rookie

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    Strokes are looking solid PP. Good hitting with the blade. Your hitting partner looks to be having a bit of trouble the pace on your shot.

    I've got a set of 4G 1.25 lying around collecting dust but may string up my rad pro with it when the adrenaline dies & see what's it's all about. My shot trajectory seems kinda similar to yours but with much less pace. I'm tempted to give it a whirl.

    Thanks for posting your video
     
    #44
  45. Overheadsmash

    Overheadsmash Semi-Pro

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    I have the 1.25 strung full bed at 50 lbs in a Dunlop Aerogel 4D 500 Tour and I love it. Great spin, great feel, plenty of power for me.
     
    #45
  46. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Trying to think of what tension I would string 4g mains and ALUr Crosses.

    I string Kevlar/ALUr at #70, Full ALUr at #70, and BBO/ALUr at #50 (Might try 48 next just for the hell of it).

    I've strung pretty much every string I have ever used really tight, but BBO just looooves being strung loose.

    I HATE tight BBO, it is just awful.

    J
     
    #46
  47. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    I am at 48 mains now for the 'cold' season here in SC. Haven't had a chance to hit yet with the holidays. Will be playing a lot this week so will report back.

    4g is very stiff and low powered. But I have had it as high as 55# when I first switched to it over the summer. Still good feel but I think I'll like the lower tension better, esp. in the cold.
     
    #47
  48. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks much.

    J
     
    #48
  49. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I have tried the 4G for the first time the last couple of days and really like it. I am using full job and I noticed no difference from yesterday to today, same feel same control.

    I did not notice that it is not spin friendly or to low powered. To me it was a perfect blend of power spin and control, with a really sweet feel to it. I have been looking for a poly to replace the kevlar hybrid that I have been using.

    Other polys would not give good enough control on my rebel 98, at least not after the first day they wouldn't. That is why I have been using a arm breaking kevlar hybrid which I want to get rid of.

    The 4G gives the great control without the nasty harshness, plus it feels great with very good power and spin. This is a special string I believe, I will know for sure with a little more hitting with it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
    #49
  50. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Friend just gave me a set, I will likely test it out in the next week or two.

    J
     
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