Discussion in 'Strings' started by J011yroger, Dec 20, 2012.
im a 4.0 using 325's. what tension should i go to w/ 4G 17g?
4G is the stiffest poly I have ever played with.
Stiffer than Babolat Revenge, stiffer than Alu Rough etc.
Hard, hard, hard string on the arm and you feel accumulating wear on the arm over several weeks of hitting.
Borne out by subjective testing and the TW/RSI stiffness numbers, which are in the stratosphere. 1.40mm is going to be an arm breaker.
Alu is ALOT nicer even though it doesn't last very long. Much prefer Alu's crispness as well over 4G's dull feel.
A very interesting string. I never felt that the string was playing that stiff. Very muted and with low power output. When playtesting it, I was getting outstanding control but no free power at all. I was playtesting it in a hybrid set-up with a soft syn gut cross at pretty much my normal tension. String played very dull and I was having very little impact on the other side of the net. I am sure a very hard swinging younger player would love this string, but I am not able to take advantage of what this string has to offer. I just hit a few balls with a frame that had the playtest strings installed. Tension is still holding up much better than any poly I have ever used. Just not a good match for my wallet or game.
Just tried a hybrid of Micronite (multi) and 4G at 55/52 in my C10 Pro and it plays quite good. I am usually a full multi user but wanted to add a little more control to the setup. If you are thinking about a gut / 4G hybrid, a high end multi is another way to reap the benefits at a little lower cost.
Can't see using the 4G as a cross with Gut. The cost of the 4G does not make sense to when you are just trying to reduce the power of gut. To each his own...
I have tried 4G twice with different strings in between. I won't use it again. Hard on the arm and no free power. I hit the ball hard and I am used to polys that give you that extra snap when hitting a hard serve or flattening out a ground stroke, this string does not give that. And maybe that was the design goal, a string that behaves exactly the same no matter how hard you hit it.
But in summary, to hard on the arm and no benefit to my game. I'll stick with Genesis Black Magic.
I like high tension also, I use a prince rebel and with full poly set ups like dunlop BW or yonex PTS I string at 68-70 lbs. My first set of 17g. 4G I went with 67 lbs. and it played really nice.
I did not notice that it was super low powered or dead and stiff like some claimed. It had great feel, good control and spin and plenty of power. My next set I tried 70lbs. and it was okay but I liked the 67lbs. better. After hitting with it over 4 times it still plays very nice, has not went from great to crap like alu does.
4G 16g is the best cross I've used for 16g vs gut mains. Its the best control and spin setup. No negatives. Good controlled power when you need it. Spin when you need it. This hybrid is in all my sticks now. Da best.
It's not that great. Simple as that. Alu as a cross blows 4G out of the water in terms of stringbed performance. Crisper, better feeling (compared to 4G's dull feel) and allows the gut to slide better for more spin.
You've pretty much summed up 4G. Stiff, hard, consistent, but on/off power characteristics and not particuarly spin orientated. You could get a similar thing from other polys costing 1/3 of the price.
RIP Control is made up of polyolefin /nylon ribbons, a string type unto itself
ALU Power Rough and 4G have made the biggest impression on me when it comes to poly strings used as a cross with gut. Among all the different polys I've tried none allowed me to really lay into the ball and swing fast while keeping the ball in like 4G. I can produce an amazing amount of top spin with 4G. What may be happening is the ball is flattened more with 4G kind of like when you hit with old tennis balls. A fast bat swing combined with mass reaps the benefits from 4G.
Gut 4G hybrid is like full poly without the pain. Really.
An excellent and very accurate observation.
One bit to add: over time the string bed ages nicely. I have all three frames strung the same way with VS/4G at different points in their aging process which looks like this:
1. Initially has power (at least by full poly standards), less comfort, less spin
2. Breaks into lower but still decent power, a little more spin, and good comfort.
3. In its prime VS/4G feels low powered, pillow cushion soft, and offers outstanding spin (not as much as other ppoly crosses but still more than full poly and certainly more than full gut imo).
4. In its twilight power is non-existent, spin remains good, and finally comfort trails off over time but never becomes truly harsh.
In ALL phases precise control is amazing. You can confidently hit the corners on serve and paint the lines with relative ease.
All of this also depends on tension on string pattern. I never liked VS/4G no matter what stage of like in a dense 95", 18x20, AG 4D 200.
Mass also matters. VS/4G felt less comfortable in my completely stock PSGTs which come in around 11 ounces. When I added a heavy Shock Shield grip and extra weight in the head and butt I was fine. Something about that extra plow must dampen the 4G's shock.
In open patterns such as the 200 Tour and PSGT if strung too high 4G seems to lock in the string bed and inhibit spin. By the same token taking the gut too low can produce too much power in an open pattern, even with 4G crosses, and especially with a higher SW.
For me, in a 95-98" head with 16 mains and a SW in the low 330s or higher, keeping the gut as high as possible to limit its power while keeping the 4G as low as possible to improve its comfort, extend its life, and reduce main-cross friction means stringing the 4G in the low 50s (which seems to be the upper recommended limit for co-poly longevity) and the VS mains 4-5 pounds higher. This means a range of 54/50 to 57/52 for me. This fall and winter I settled on 55/51 which I'll probably bump up a little in the hot ATL summer.
I also don't have the gut pre-stretched. Recently a stringer accidentally pre-stretched my gut mains. The mains began showing signs of stress IMMEDIATELY and fraying way too fast, felt uncomfortable, dented the 4G crosses prematurely, and produced less spin. An interesting, if accidental, experiment that reminded me of why I don't pre-stretch gut with poly crosses.
Key advantages of 4G over Alu are comfort and tension loss.
If you can afford to restring gut/poly when the Alu crosses start dropping serious tension thus reducing control and comfort then go for it.
For me 4G has been my savior from Gut/Poly Hell when it comes to tension loss, control, and comfort. Other poly crosses can provide decent comfort and better spin (eg MSV CoFocus) but suffer in tension loss and control. Others provide great control and spin initially but then seriously decline in control and comfort.
I agree that 4G crosses provide less spin potential, especially at higher tensions and in dense patterns. Under those two conditions I too would not recommend it at all.
But in open patterns and medium tensions I think its spin is more than enough (my slice can break nearly sideways)and its longevity is absolutely, positively unmatched by any other poly which dramatically improves gut/poly's value for the average rec player who is unwilling or unable to restring after just a few hours of play.
While other polys were viable in fulls beds wrt cost because they were both cheaper and less playable over time compared to gut, 4G seems tailor made as a cross for gut as it comes closest in matching gut's playability and comfort over time. In other words, other polys CAN be used as crosses for gut but don't mesh well with gut's longer term playability.
IMO 4G is the first poly that seems explicitly designed to mesh with gut as a cross when it comes to aggregate comfort of gut/poly vs full poly or even full multi, tension loss, and long term playability.
For "5G" I hope Luxilon solves 4G's denting problem which will significantly improve its spin potential. A thinner guage would be nice too.
Does 4G hold tension as well as SPPP?
I agree. I can play till the gut breaks. no worries about tension and or playability for me with a gut/4g hybrid
I'd take 4G over ALU all day long as a cross with gut. ALU just does not last long enough. 4G is stiff, but it is still a comfortable string to me. Stiff and uncomfortable (in certain sticks) to me is Tour Bite.
Alu is easily the more comfortable string. Both stiff strings, but Alu is easily the more comfortable.
You're serious muddling up tension loss, strings going dead and comfort. Alu at a lower / less tension doesn't make it less comfortable.
That's the only negative of Alu - it lasts about 5 mins. But it blows 4G away in every other category.
I don't think it blows it away. 4G is an incredible string. It's not garbage. ALU is IMO the best poly out there, but it really is ideal as a full job. I think 4G was made to be put in a hybrid either as mains or crosses. I love it as a cross with syn gut. Only reason I use Dunlop Ice is because Ice is far less $$ and it is a perfect string for how I hit.
I also think 4G is rather comfortable for being such a stiff string. I have a reel of ALU and while I think a full job of ALU is GOAT setup, I never thought of it as that comfy. they both have that crispy Lux edge feel to them on contact, 4G's just lasts longer.
its amazing, im using it on the mains on a pure drive @ 50lbs
Can't believe how good this string has become - and remained - after about 13 hours or so now... If you provide the pop with your swing, this will provide the control. Great string, LONG lasting. Have it in the mains with ogsm crosses.
I am very picky about changing poly often, but this is one of the best polys I have ever tried for longevity. I am really impressed on how long this string plays good for, very unusual for poly.
I am 4 hours into my first string job with 4g. It is a firm but comfortable poly with great control. The price of the string is the only negative for me. I can get the same results with a cheaper poly.
4G seems to last longer than most polys so may end up saving money. Do you have your own string machine?
I do string for myself. I usually cut polys out between 15-20 hours. Is 4g going to give more playable time?
This string lasts as long as any poly I have used.
In light of what timothy said abt denser patterns and stringing highwould gut 1.3 and 4g 1.3
Be suitable in a 18 20 pattern at 55 /53.
Would that be considered high. In reference to graphene speed pro
I am 8 hours into my first 4g setup in a blade 18x20 2013 and I am impressed overall. I played 5 sets of doubles today and I had complete control over every shot. Comfort level was still good for a firm controlled poly. I still can't say the price is justified at roughly $17.00 a set.
I will be experimenting with the 4g as a cross with Pacific Classic Natural Gut in the mains on Wed, due to some positive feedback in this thread.
I really hate to cut the full 4g setup the way it is playing but my curiousity of a gut/poly setup in the blade is overwealming
What is your normal string, and how long does it last you on average before breaking?
He he, be patient. Your gonna wish you did. Be more curious on how long a full bed of 4G lasts you.
I have been enjoying Iontec Black for the last 6 months. I usually restring every 2 weeks, roughly 15 hours of play. I rarely break polys within that time span.
Twice now I cut-out 4G and replaced it with ALU Power Rough in the cross. I just have more feel and control with ALU Power Rough than with 4G. That extra feel and control allows me to create more shots on the fly.
Bought steam 105s with a full bed of 4G. I broke it after about 5 hours and I just replaced it with a full bed of ALU power and MAN, it is nice.
Compared to ALU, 4G felt dull. ALU feels better and the spin production is superior to 4G. The way Steam is eating up the strings, tension maintenance over long time does not matter to me. I am going to stay away from 4G.
4G vs Silverstring in these three catergories:
Durability, comfort and control.
Anyone can give some feedback here?
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