Does anyone find this odd?

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by tennis5, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Sh*t and F*ck on Sunday, defaulted from a NATIONAL USTA tournament in Florida after being warned....

    (Curse - point penalty, curse - game penalty, curse - defaulted, curse - after being - defaulted, and now also defaulted from dubs).

    and then 4 days later....

    you get announced for Davis Cup Junior USTA Player Development Camp.....

    SUNDAY, JANUARY 27, 2013
    Tennis Plaza Cup Finals Set for Monday

    At Salvadore Park, where the quarterfinals and semifinals were played today in the boys 18s and boys 14s division, top seed Christian Langmo got the most unusual win of his tennis career in the semifinals, when his opponent, unseeded Alfredo Perez, was defaulted from the match at 3-3 deuce in the third set.

    Perez was defaulted for his third audible obscenity in the match, the first two coming in the last game of the first set when he was serving trailing 3-5.

    The rallies between Langmo and Perez had been of extremely high quality throughout the first eight games, with both hitting the ball deep and with pace. The Har-Tru courts at Salvadore Park prevented first-strike tennis, which both Perez and Langmo would have excelled at on a faster surface, and the result was entertaining points that featured offense, defense and even occasional net play. Neither player was making many unforced errors, and the frustration of having to win points began to take its toll of Perez.

    At 3-5, 0-30, after a Langmo winner, Perez yelled out "he's playing out of his f***ing mind" and a roving umpire gave him a point penalty, making it 0-40. Perez responded with two consecutive aces, but on the third break point, Langmo hit a difficult backhand volley winner. What Perez said next was not audible from where I was standing, but it was audible to the same roving umpire, who then gave him a game penalty.....

    The third set continued with both boys playing well and holding serve until, at 3-3, Perez let a 40-15 lead get away. When he failed to win a third game point, he shouted that he was playing like the Spanish word for excrement. The assistant referee checked with her Spanish-speaking colleague to make sure she had heard it correctly, and called both boys to the net, where she awarded the match to Langmo. Langmo shook Perez's hand, then Perez tossed his racquet in the direction of his bag and after a few seconds sat down and loudly said the same word again. Because he was defaulted for misconduct, the 15-year-old from Coral Gables was not allowed to play his doubles match later in the day.


    THURSDAY, JANUARY 31, 2013
    Davis Cup Junior Camp Participants


    The USTA frequently conducts Player Development Training Camps during a home Davis Cup tie,
    and today they announced the players who are in Jacksonville for the camp for Friday's tie with Brazil.

    They are:
    Stefan Kozlov (14, Pembroke Pines, Fla.)
    Henrik Wiersholm (15, Kirkland, Wash.)
    William Blumberg (15, Greenwich, Conn.)
    Jake Devine (15, Boca Raton, Fla.)
    Eduardo Nava (15, Woodland Hills, Calif.)
    Reilly Opelka (15, Palm Coast, Fla.)
    Alfredo Perez (15, Coral Gables, Fla.)
    Nathan Ponwith (14, Scottsdale, Ariz.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
    #1
  2. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    No, I don't think getting defaulted from a tennis match in that manner should get you suspended from future play. On the other hand, has he exceeded the USTA Point System maximum of 10 points for Code violations? If so, then yes he should not be on the team.

    I do see the point of your question. But if he is within the rules then as long as they are applied equally then he can play.

    In my house, if he were my kid, he would have made him stay home from the next major event as his tennis punishment. Other punishments would also apply, such as apology letters and phone calls, no tennis for a week, additional work around the house, etc............
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
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  3. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

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    We want to see more umpires like those working at Plaza in every tournament. Having watched him in 2 matches , this kid actually behaved a lot better than many kids we know.
     
    #3
  4. tennis1970

    tennis1970 New User

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    Though the rules may have been followed... It still is a judgement call by the USTA to "reward" the player for a display of poor sportsmanship/bad court conduct. I personally would disagree with the USTA descision. The USTA has kids sign waivers stating they won't display poor conduct when they are part of these outings. It's like going against their own tenant. There are plenty of good well behaved kids they could have chosen instead....
     
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  5. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Go down that slippery slope and see where that gets you. Will the standard be applied equally to all players on the team based on behavior over the last 12 months? Maybe, maybe not. Some tournaments apply code violations for the words Frick and Fudge the same as the word F*** same goes for Golly Gee Willickers is the same as GD.

    The USTA has a 10 Point Penalty Code Violation System that works and at least establishes a system and standard.

    I'm sure there a some who want fascist rule from the USTA, and that's their choice. Good luck with that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
    #5
  6. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

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    Agree! These kids may have been chosen weeks before the L3. But USTA is obligated to teach these high performance kids how to better behave themselves on and off the tennis courts.
     
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  7. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    They may not have been aware as Perez doesn't train with USTA. He trains with Robert Gomez who actually hosted the tournament where the DQ actually occurred. Should Gomez have done anything? Maybe he did.
     
    #7
  8. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    The kid was defaulted from the tournament. I guess some also want him water boarded or at the very least sent to solitary first before he can play jr DC.
     
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  9. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Great job by the ref !
     
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  10. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    kids ... kids are kids .. they can change ,fast... I never give up on kids .. he's only 15 and little life's lessons like this can change him...if he has the potential to become a great player ,people should give him a bit of a slack .. I don't mean to always baby the cry-baby but do it with an open mind.. his craziness comes from his passion ,he just needs to curb it a bit ... put this kid on a short leash and he'll be fine..

    good luck to the future... maybe ...
     
    #10
  11. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Obviously sarcasm.....buy why is it always black & white with some of the posters here.

    There is a third option between water boarding/"spending the night in the box".....,. & being selected to represent our country in an international tournament.

    The third option is to select the next best player. (Tiafoe? half a dozen others?)

    Dude was dropping F bombs at his home courts in a Natl L3 less than a week ago. Isn't there player who is just as good (& probably ranked higher) who could represent the US in place of him?
     
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  12. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Well said. The kid loves tennis and he can play.
     
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  13. widmerpool

    widmerpool Rookie

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    If the rules need to be changed, change them.

    Tennis has so many wishy-washy areas. Like Azarenka's breaks. Make a set time limit. You go over, you default. Don't leave it up to "judgement calls".
     
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  14. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    I agree with you Hound. Camps like that are a privileged, not a right. He wouldn't be being punished by not being selected. If you take that perspective, what about the kid who just beat him, why not invite him. Is he being punished by not being selected ?

    As for cutting these kids some slack becuase they are talented, that just plain wrong. They should be held to a higher standard, not pandered to or treated like Primadonnas. This is why we get embarrassing displays by Harrison at the Olympics. No discipline.
     
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  15. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    He was defaulted from the match, that was his punishment. Does he have more than 10 Code Violation Points in a 12 month rolling calender year? If no, then he should be able to play the next event and be selected to represent the USTA. If yes then he should be suspended for 3 months. My guess is he does not have 10 code violation point penalties, thus he's eligible to play, just like everyone else. Those are the rules. If you don't like them, get them changed.

    What I can't believe is there are those here who say the USTA can't do anything right. Then there's this situation and folks act as if they want the USTA to appoint a Behavior Czar to arbitrarily punish kids for behavior as they see fit. And the USTA would get this right every time? Unbelievable.
     
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  16. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Again, how does not being selected for this event constitute a punishment ? By that logic, at least 4,000 other kids got punished for no reason at all. Participation the camp was not a right. It was a privilege. The rules don't specify who gets invited to the event, its a subjective decision, and some of us don't think the selectors choose wisely. You cannot tell me there were not any other 14 or 15 year old's qualified to attend.
     
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  17. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    andfor,

    You are guilty of applying sound logic. Keep up the good work as this forum needs checks and balances.
     
    #17
  18. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    I honestly dont even get why sh*t is a curse word in America. In other countries its just like saying "crap"
     
    #18
  19. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    The real issue is that the rule makers are the decision makers.
     
    #19
  20. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Your post sounds cool but please clarify what you mean. Within most corporations, the rule makers are the decision makers so I'm not sure I understand. What rule makers and what decision makers are you referring to as it relates to this thread?
     
    #20
  21. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    The people that make the rules can put someone in a tournament.
     
    #21
  22. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    But it wasn't a tournament it was a camp.
     
    #22
  23. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Beyond corporations, I have not come across a youth sports organization that operates differently. AAU basketball, USA baseball, regional volleyball and soccer associations I am familiar with, Pop Warner football. Can anyone name a youth sports organization where the rule makers are not the decision makers?
     
    #23
  24. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    These folks want a USTA Behavior Czar. Next thing you know kids will be getting suspended for crying, going to the bathroom, clothing violations, spilling their water, bad hair days, body oder, runny noses, back sassing they momma, skipping school, staying out too late, speeding tickets, listening to rap music and acne.
     
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  25. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    I don't see that in anyone's posts. You're pretty much making that up. You are the one turning this upside down to make it seem like people want to punish him. Nobody said suspend him. The OP just seem to question the wisdom of rewarding someone who so recently exhibited pretty poor behavior. Participation in a camp like that should be reserved for players with exemplary behavior. Your arguments about the PPSS don't seem to apply becuase the PPSS rules specifically say a player with 10 points in 12 months shall be suspended from US Sanctioned Tournaments. As Chalk pointed out, this wasn't a tournament, it was a camp. So so much for that "logic".

    I not sure I care that he was invited to the camp but it definitely doesn't really surprise me either. I just don't think not inviting him would be considered a punishment, and I can see why people are disappointing that he was getting rewarded so soon after that incident. Probably would have been his own best interests to take a break.
     
    #25
  26. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    If you want to point fingers, point them at the coach (tournament director) and the parent(s). That's where the real discipline should be levied.
     
    #26
  27. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    HIT it on the nail.
    They actually would have been doing Perez a favor,
    if someone called him and said,

    "You were going to the Junior Davis Camp, but due to your poor sportsmanship,
    you will not be attending the camp this year.
    We hope that in the future, you will conduct yourself with dignity and respect towards yours opponent,
    and we will see you at future camps."

    Wouldn't that have been more meaningful. Actions have consequences. You learn from your mistakes.

    But, none of that occurred.

    Or, and this is even scarier, the USTA is completely out of touch and doesn't even know what goes on in
    a USTA National Tournaments in their own backyard in Florida.....
     
    #27
  28. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    I see your 20 year old speeding and texting, and I wonder why the police haven't given him a ticket,
    and you are telling me that the driving instructor/parent should have done a better job.

    Chalk, that ship has sailed....

    Let's just say that when you see a teenager cursing and throwing their racquet all over,
    it is not their first time, it's been done before, and has become a bad habit.

    This boy has been playing for a few years, corrections on misbehavior/sportsmanship should have been made a long time ago....

    The young man got his punishment by being warned twice, and then third time - defaulted.

    The question being raised here is on what appears to be a mistiming of a reward.

    I might have raised this question on an internet board, but it is being discussed across the country...

    The USTA hired a PR firm to advise them on how to proceed or handle the membership of the USTA on the 2014 changes,
    but they consistently just appear to be out of touch with the general public on what is appropriate for juniors.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
    #28
  29. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

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    Bryan brothers sponsored this camp. If Bob or Mike took this poor kid out of the camp, I believe that the twins would have done him a big favor. He will forever remember this incident and might even use it as a motivation to improve mental toughness and eventually become a better player.
     
    #29
  30. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    The texting analogy doesn't fly and the ship has not sailed. I can bring this thread to closure very quickly...

    As a parent, what would you have done if this was your kid that was disqualified from the tournament? Just answer the question.
     
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  31. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    He was defaulted in the biggest tournament at his home club. That was his punishment.

    If its a "camp" what's that have to do with s non-related "tournament"?

    Wake up people!
     
    #31
  32. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    They did not sponsor this camp. That was something entirely different.
     
    #32
  33. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    And when did that become not a curse word?
    It used to be until a few years ago. I would never let my kids say that and I don't say it.
     
    #33
  34. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

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    The world has changed so much. Recently, I heard a kid yelled at his mom in F word, just because the mom said something to him after he struggled but won a doubles match in the tiebreak!
     
    #34
  35. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    His mom should default him from that match.

    If his mom saying something was coaching, they both (mom and son) should have been defaulted by the ref.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
    #35
  36. Chemist

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    Unfortunately she won't. She might have taught the kid how to win at all costs, like cursing his opponent, taking long bathroom break when losing, making "close call" at big points,....:twisted:
     
    #36
  37. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    That is sad.

    She is raising a loser....not a winner.
     
    #37
  38. tennisforlife77

    tennisforlife77 Rookie

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    The issue here is the way in which USTA sponsored kids behave themselves - I don't know whether this kids trains with the USTA or not but this is a USTA funded camp and sportsmanship should be among the criteria for selection. It would appear this kid would not pass that test. Similarly the USTA grants WC's to PD kids and then stands by and says nothing as they no show in the back draw! It is a symptom of an organization with no accountability.
     
    #38
  39. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    You are making a general blanket statement that isn't entirely true. A lot of kids skip the back draw. But if this bothers you, then your feelings should apply to any kid that skips the back draw regardless of where they train.
     
    #39
  40. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Yea, the USTA needs to rule jr tennis with an iron fist and utter lack of companion for all the kids. Kids are robots and should all act like Björn Borg.
     
    #40
  41. Woolybugger

    Woolybugger Rookie

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    I think the point here is that USTA (and tennis for that matter) has a code of conduct. The conduct displayed by this junior was completely counter to that code, and then to select him to represent the USA in the Junior Davis Cup Camp reeks of hypocrisy.
     
    #41
  42. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    You don't know the order of events. The kid was selected for the camp in advance of the tournament. The tournament happened a few days before the camp. Do you think the player, the coach/TD, or the parents told anyone about the DQ? While everyone wants to blame the USTA, this should have been handled by the parents and maybe it was.
     
    #42
  43. tennisforlife77

    tennisforlife77 Rookie

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    Yes - i am making a blanket statement - If i were a private benefactor supporting the tennis activities of a group of kids i would insist on a standard of conduct that would include sportsmanship and playing the tournament to completion. In this case the USTA is the benefactor and they are clearly imposing only a minimal standard of conduct on the players they are supporting and this kid is not the only example - i think this is what people find offensive. Kids that are playing tennis in their own dime can do whatever they like in terms of behavior but i would personally hold my kid to that same minimum standard. I think we should expect at least that from the USTA.
     
    #43
  44. tennisforlife77

    tennisforlife77 Rookie

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    And at that point the USTA should have withdrawn his invitation to participate. It was a USTA national tournament - one would hope they were paying attention.
     
    #44
  45. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    One would hope the parents were paying attention.
     
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  46. Woolybugger

    Woolybugger Rookie

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    I have no doubt the parents were paying attention, and condoning this behavior. Every parent who's at this level, watched hundreds of kid's matches knows how their kids behave. It is no surprise to them.

    If USTA did not know, fair enough. It is then the fault of the parents (and the coach) who want their kid to be the next "superstar" at the expense of everything else.

    Sadly, this is becoming too common as the pursuit of tennis "glory" trumps decency.
     
    #46
  47. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    I started this thread with the dates bolded in red.
    The default was on Sunday, January 27th.
    The announcement for the Davis Cup Juniors was Thursday, January 31st.

    The USTA either knew what transpired at a National Tournament in their own backyard ( Florida) and a lack of respect and decency to your opponent is irrelevant to them or they are completely out of touch with what is going on in junior tennis. I am not sure what is worse.


    SUNDAY, JANUARY 27, 2013
    Tennis Plaza Cup Finals Set for Monday


    THURSDAY, JANUARY 31, 2013
    Davis Cup Junior Camp Participants

    The USTA frequently conducts Player Development Training Camps during a home Davis Cup tie,
    and today they announced the players who are in Jacksonville for the camp for Friday's tie with Brazil.
     
    #47
  48. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    It's odd, many USTA sections now are requiring juniors and parents to sign a letter or contract (before tournament play) that they will show good sportsmanship, and yet the head of the USTA organization seems to ignore this standard.
     
    #48
  49. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    1/31 was the press release day. The selection was made weeks earlier. Other than the ever reliable news system, do you have evidence to the contrary?
     
    #49
  50. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Andfor,

    In this age of the internet, it is pretty easy to write an email on Monday morning, the 28th,
    to the parties that need to be notified that there has been a change.
    Zoo Tennis could have been notified the night before she wrote her blog.

    It is a mystery to me why you and Chalk are so adamant in defending an organization when they make mistakes?

    I would be the first to say that the volunteer system for the USTA is outstanding,
    and I have met many wonderful, hardworking, passionate folks who give their time freely for the love for tennis.

    But, the management that deals with the juniors seems to be out of touch with the membership.
    This is just another example that doesn't sit right.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
    #50

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