Does anyone find this odd?

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by tennis5, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Believe what you want.

    He was punished under the rules and was defaulted from the match. Does every member on the Jr DC team camp have unblemished backgrounds in the last 12 months?

    With out clear cut standards, I'm not for subjective judgement especially from the organization you deplore the USTA arbitrarily sanctioning kids. If they can't get it right now, how without additional clear cut guidelines do you think they will get it right in your fantasy world?

    Write the committee or chairman who selected the kid and ask them why given these circumstances they picked him.
     
    #51
  2. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Sportsmanship is for the little people:). All joking aside, I can't recall the number of parent/coach "role model" or code of conduct contracts I have had to sign. But when a top player misbehaves, there does seem to be another standard. Socals10's response I think typifies the attitude - its just his passion, cut him some slack. So, if your good, you can curse, and have tantrums, etc and it ok, but if you not winning(aka a loser) you can't. Please lose quietly.

    Anyway, I personally am willing to cut the USTA some slack on this particular issue, just cause of the timing. I suppose if they were a highly efficient organization with clear sense of their mission, they would have been able to react to this incident in the short time frame required, but that's asking too much.

    I agree with Chalk when he said (I paraphrase) it is wrong paint all the kids in PD(and I recognize this player was not in PD) or USTA supported players with a broad brush and say they are all bad sports who behave bad and skip back draws, etc. But, I think it would be in everyone best interest, USTA, PD, the kids, if being part of PD or being a participant in camps required a higher standard of conduct than making sure not to get more than 9 PPSS.

    We don't need more Ryan Harrison's. Maybe USTA needs to get Dr. Fox to spend more time with the kids.
     
    #52
  3. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    1. Getting defaulted from a match for repeated code violations at a regional is not just a blemish. After being caught twice swearing in English, he intentionally switched to cursing is Spanish cause he thought he could get away with it. That weekend, how many other kids were defaulted from the regionals for repeated code violations? I don't know the answer, but I suspect 'not many' is a close approximation.

    2. I agree with you that I think clean cut, objective standards are important. And if the issue here was his admission to the next USTA-sanctioned tournament , than how many PPSS points he had accrued over the past 12 months would come into play. But this is about selection to participate in a camp. Please point me to the clear cut, objective standards that are used to select kids for participation in these camps. An Internet link would be fine, I am sure this is published somewhere on the USTA site. Ok you get my point, never mind. You keep gong back to this but PPSS doesn't apply. The fact is the decision to reward him by inviting him to participate in this camp is an subjective decision made by USTA PD, and they have there own, unpublished non-objective criteria.

    3. I suppose if the minimum were not good enough, it would not be the minimum. I believe for everyones benefit, the threshold for being able to participate in an event like this should be higher, not the same as or lower than, the threshold required not to be suspended from USTA competition. The fact is for all we know, he has other suspension points before this and is now actually suspended from USTA competition for a period of time, I don't know. But that in and of itself would not have stopped him, at least by an objective rule, from participating the camp.

    4. All the above said, I think the timing of the two events was actually coincident, and I can see how was invited well before hand, and 'uninviting' was not practical.
     
    #53
  4. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    1. You did not answer my question. Then you answered a question you made up that I did not ask to make yourself feel good.
    2. You agree with me, but. But, in my last post I clearly did not go back to the PPSS. "USTA PD, ... they have there own, unpublished non-objective criteria". Ha ha, you really should hear yourself.
    3. More bizarre conjecture.
    4. You actually agree with me, it's just now you are clearly having difficulty coming out and just saying it.
     
    #54
  5. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Believe it or not, I am actually not under any obligation to answer your stupid (rhetorical?) question that nobody without inside information could possibly answer . You posed it, maybe you can answer it ? I answered a question not to make myself feel good, but becuase it was more relevant.

    Ha,Ha, Really ? So you didn't go back to PPSS in the last post ? Really ? So the reference to the "last 12 months" had noting to do with the "10 points in the previous 12 months" PPSS standard ? It was just a random, coincidental, reference to 12 months? Your references PPSS in all your previous posts, now you are saying this has nothing to do with that ? So are you walking back all your PPSS stuff ? Seriuosly ?

    I believe in the concept that criteria for things like admission to camps should be objective and transparent. Regrettably, they are not. You have repeatedly argued on this thread the PPSS system is that objective standard, but I have shown that there is no relationship between the PPSS system which only governs admission to USTA Sanctioned tournaments and has no bearing on selections for camps.


    There's absolutely no conjecture here. It's laying out the facts. I was demonstrating that whether he is or is not subject to suspension under PPSS, that has no relevance as to his eligibility to participating in camp such as this. Again, you have repeatedly argued on this thread that punishment under the PPSS was sufficient and that the player should not be subject to further "punishment".


    No, I emphatically do not agree with you on any substantive issue, other than the fact that the timing was unfortunate, and as I have said, I can cut them some slack becuase of that. Otherwise, no we don't agree. Had the incident in question accured a month ago, then I would be less forgiving. But I also suspect there are people inside PD who would see his behavior as a positive, becuase it demonstrates his passion, right ? And we need to cut them slack if they are good and have passion ? Sportsmanship is for the little people. :(
     
    #55
  6. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    You've made up and imagined a lot here. I won't go through it anymore as I have done so once already. Your hypothetical and imaginary scenarios are funny. You have a great sense of humor.

    My 12 mo. reference was to the rest of the kids in the camp. Did any of them act out anywhere, reported or unreported? If you punish this kid over and above the rules would the USTA be levying punishments equally and fairly to all? I don't think they could get it right without clear guidelines and standards to use. Since you are so against how the USTA did not handle this situation, why don't you propose new rules for situations like this?

    I will say given this kids behavior, I am for him being further punished. But without a standard to reference to justify suspending him, I am not for the USTA arbitrarily stepping in to do so. As far as I'm concerned he was punished under the rules by being defaulted from the match. In my house I would not have let him go to the camp, but that's on his parents and we don't know what happens behind their doors. Guess the default is not enough for some. Fine, get the USTA to change the rules. Let us know how that goes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
    #56
  7. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

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    The Mobile Tennis Center is going to host B18 Spring Championship. They have tougher rules than USTA. Would it be nice to see other tournaments do the same?

    FACILITY RULES

    The Mobile Tennis Center uses conduct rules above and beyond those enforced by the USTA.
    Players participating in tournaments at the facilities identified are required to abide by these facility rules of behavior on and off of the court. These rules also apply to parents, coaches, siblings, and other guests of the players.

    The list below indicates the Facility Behavior Rules:

    No use of the word "suck" or any form of the word spoken or spelled.
    No use of expressions of frustrations with references to deities (i.e. "Oh My God", "Jesus", "Jesus Christ", "Christ", "God") either spoken or spelled.
    No use of "freaking", "frigging", or "fricking" or variations of such words either spoken or spelled.
    No Smoking anywhere on the premises. Premises includes parking lots, bathrooms, and anywhere within 30 feet of a tennis court.
    Verbal rules apply to any langu-age. We have officials on sight that are fluent in many langu-ages.

    Anyone found in violation of these rules may be subject to a Code Violation and receive suspension points.
     
    #57

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