Does anyone truly hate federer's GAME?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by joeri888, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, OK. Now that you've explained it I see where you're coming from. But, this is not what I was commenting to. Your previous post was vague, but now I understand what you meant to say.
     
  2. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    It's not a big deal, I probably should've elaborated. I just tend to speak as plainly as possible with bullzilla, because typing it out as i've just done is largely a waste of time with him.
     
  3. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Not a problem. I do it all the time, too. You know what you mean in your mind and sometimes you don't translate all the thoughts on paper. I like to hear how people come to their conclusions. It's interesting, and in the end none of this really matters.
     
  4. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    Of course Nadal is an incredible tennis player. None the less, Nadal will be remembered for his physical ability allowing him to get to those balls. When I talking about crazy shots I am talking about ones like the last shot in this point.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=OCo4eC7Vz_8#t=1m16s

    When people look back they will look at a lot of astonishing shots from both, but they will still look at Nadal's athleticism as the main strength of his game.
     
  5. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    Nadal revolutionized the going at 110% to beat Federer and burning out. Evidence is there. 2008 and then boom injury in 09. Can't argue with logic Steerzillz part deuce.
     
  6. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    That actually supports what I was saying. Thanks for helping. Nadal will be remembered for his athleticism rather than his shotmaking.
     
  7. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Guess we'll have to go into the future to see how today's exploits are measured.

    See you there!
     
  8. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    Shall I meet you at Doc Brown's house? :)
     
  9. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Come on over, we're havin a few beers; need some fuel after all!
     
  10. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Rotfloas..........

    Once again a topic gets reduced to a ridiculous comparison for Fed and Nads, it's like comparing diamonds to fire wood.

    Feds game is a mutifaceted talented game that cannot be taught, just fine tuned, it's natural. The problem with this sort of game is too many options and takes longer to get control of. Fed even at the age of 30 still has the pure talent, grace and ability to challange the field with fluidity.

    Rafa's game is a one dimentional game that is highly practiced. The good thing about this sort of game is that there are not many options and therfore little to go wrong. Add Rafa's mental toughness and you have a winning combination. Rafa based his game in percentage tennis (nothing new there) with an emphasis on spin and speed (first used in the 1920's by Walter Wingate; the buggywhip, lasso hehehe ) . It's his mental toughness that wins him matches because he never gives in, which frustrates his opponents in errors. The physical part was pioneered by Vilas, Lendl, Muster and Courier long before Rafa so nothing new there. Check Rafa stats and you will find low number of winners but a high number of UEs from his opponents; percentage game based on mental toughness. Also, playing left handed helps along with the poly strings. Take the poly string away and there is no Rafa.

    Another way to look at it is players with natural talents are rarely injured because they more well within the bodies ability, maximizing the outcome. Players with less ability are consistently muscling the ball and tend to develop injuries because they are playing outside of their bodies ability. There are far more players who play in the second method.

    Look what hapens to Rafa when you take away the high bouncing spin option.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JusXFp4mE7M&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIMvd-318tc&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUt3RbdxhCk

    I know this is going to tick a number of you off but it's the pure facts without emotion or hype up speak from fans. Technically Fed is far superior, even Rafa knows this and stated it many times, end of story.

    Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  11. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Nah. Doc's pretty weird. Meet me at the big clock in town.
     
  12. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Strangely, Tsonga has spent more time off with injuries than Rafa.
     
  13. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Some people just get unlucky with injuries; Tsonga is a big guy with alot of weight on his frame, and that means he's more susceptible to injuries than Rafa.
     
  14. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Agree. It has very little to do with "talent." Ergo, Haas, who isn't a big guy, or Malisse who also has spent a large time off the tour due to injuries.
     
  15. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Ah, poor Haas :(
     
  16. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    I'm deeply concerned for you. You should really check with a doctor. Last time that happened to me I almost bit through my heart.
     
  17. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    You mean a reality check, sports are not serious business for observers.


     
  18. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

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    Well, to be accurate, there are elements on Nadal's technique that resemble Federer's somewhat. Though I don't expect you or most of the feminine Nadal fandom that probably doesn't have much experience playing or studying the sport to be aware of this.

    Nadal hits with an extended or straight arm on his forehand, that can be better observed when he finishes across his body.

    Federer came earlier and has been one of the main proponents of this technique.

    Uncle Toni also has mentioned that they studied Federer's footwork on grass at some point or something of the same effect.

    Aside from technicalities, and more to the point, Federer has raised the game to a certain standard of dominance that Nadal and then Djokovic nowadays have tried to aim themselves.
    Fed basically pushed the game to a standard hardly if not ever seen. Nadal and Djokovic followed his lead.

    This is myth perpetuated by many Nadal fans for a long time.

    Lets debunk this.

    First time Nadal played on grass that I'm aware of was at the Junior's Wimbledon Championships in 2002 and he made the semifinal there already. That's not bad at all for a junior playing on grass for the first time on a competitive tournament.

    At this interview he mentions that although he doesn't dislike clay, he used to like even better grass and some fast courts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib2DQLtCfCo&feature=related#t=4m59

    Next time he plays a competitive grass court tourney he is playing in the main draw of Wimbledon in 2003, beating a player of a very good grass pedigree in Mario Ancic on the very first round. He advanced on his next round and then proceeded to lose to Paradorn Srichapan in straights.

    For some reason he skipped Wimbledon on the next year, 2004, but played again in 2005, winning convincingly his first round but falling on the next against Gilles Muller, who can be a dangerous player on grass.

    2006 was the year he made his first final and seemingly what many Nadal fans perceive as Nadal's first try at Wimbledon. This notion that Nadal never played on grass or had any experience on grass prior 2005-2006 is a false one. Given that grass is a very rare surface on tour, his profile shows that he had enough match experience in competitive tournaments by the time he made his first final, and even more surprising, some very unexpected results early on, like making a semifinal on one of the firsts, if not THE first competitive grass court tournament he ever played and even advancing to the 3rd or second rounds of the main Wimbledon draw already, beating Mario Ancic on the way of his 3rd round exit, which is a very good result for a then nobody on grass. How many young players advance to the 2nd or even 3rd round of a GS on their 1st or 2nd tries?

    No one would have guessed, but looking retrospectively, the signs of a good grass courter were there, hidden, in some of his early results.

    When he won in 2008 he said something of the effect that he always liked grass too. Fact is, he has been competing in a draw of the Wimbledon Championships as early as 2002, missing only 2004.

    Anyway, this myth has come a long way and hopefully this will be informative.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2012
  19. Eternity

    Eternity Semi-Pro

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    He actually talked about this a couple of days ago:

     
  20. Fate Archer

    Fate Archer Hall of Fame

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    ^ Fantastic, that's a great excerpt to reinforce the point.

    Thanks for bringing it up, I was not aware of this excerpt, and it's essentially what I was trying to convey.

    Much better coming from Nadal's own mouth than some random forum poster I guess.
     
  21. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    It's amazing how you said pretty much the exact same thing Nadal did. Well researched post that one!
     
  22. Eternity

    Eternity Semi-Pro

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    Yes it is. Fate Archer's post reminded me of that interview I had read earlier.
     
  23. monfed

    monfed Guest

    It's unimaginable for a tennis player to hate Fed's game. But you know there are always exceptions. :lol:
     
  24. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Andy Roddick?
     
  25. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    I agree !

    10chars
     
  26. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Fantastic, loved it a lot
     
  27. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    I respectfully disagree with your entire post. I have been watching tennis for a long time and am a voracious reader to boot. I actually spend more time reading about tennis than I do watching it. Nothing in your post is new to me. Tennis for me didn't begin with Nadal and Federer my tennis viewership came many years before they even came on the scene.
     
  28. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    truthfully, there's no way to respond to your post. Nothing you said really makes any sense, particularly your statement that you could study the footwork but not emulate it.

    Federer is one of the best at court positioning on grass, and Nadal definitely worked to emulate similar positioning after the 2006 final. Just because you refuse to accept this doesn't make it untrue, and I'll leave it at that.

    W/r to Nadal chasing Federer versus anyone else, I'll give you that he would've had to chase the top player on tour regardless; Fate Archer's post seems to have been completely lost on you. He never said that Nadal knew right from Federer's apperance on tour that he would be so dominant, and it wouldn't matter if he had. The fact is that by the time Nadal became number two in the rankings, Federer was extremely dominant, especially over Wimbledon. So in order for Nadal to gain the two things he wanted most on tour, namely the #1 ranking and a Wimbledon trophy, he had to beat Federer at Wimbledon and match his performances overall vs the field, or surpass him to get the ranking. Since Federer was so dominant, Nadal spent a very long time at number two, many times having enough ranking points that had he played in an era before Federer, he might've already been number one. If you can't understand this, then I've nothing more to say.

    w/r to grass pedigree.. What, in your mind DOES constitute a grass pedigree? Nadal himself said he was a good player on the surface and figured out how to win on it long before his first final, and you still can't accept it?
     
  29. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I really like his game: the one-handed backhand, the occasional forays to the net, the great footwork, the formerly astounding forehand angles.

    But I would never say he "has all the shots."
     
  30. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    One thing I noticed watching Roger live over the years is the variable degree of spin he employed on his shots to get the desired angle and depth to set up for the next shot. For some reasons, it was more noticeable than watching it on TV.
     
  31. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Did you count the number of matches played that constituted a grass pedigree? Here's an example: Nadal beat Federer the first time they played on hardcourt. He also beat many other players. Did that also give him a hardcourt pedigree, because that's essentially what you're saying. If you played a few tournaments and won about four matches at the tour level, then bingo! You've earned your pedigree :confused:.
     
  32. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    How did this thread get to this stuff?


    Federer's game was beautiful again last night. Don't think anybody hated his game, but just the fact he won maybe :)
     
  33. jerriy

    jerriy Hall of Fame

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    You're too naive about the pathology of some strains of the Nadalitis virus and it's effect on the human brain.
     
  34. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    *slow claps*

    lol
     
  35. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

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    To be fair, he made some impressive forehand winners...down a set and 2-5.

    I guess it's at that point that he switches out of his usual defend-and-wait-for-errors mode and into agro-world-beater-vamos mode.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  36. Polvorin

    Polvorin Professional

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    It's kind of sad that Djokovic is better at playing Nadal's game than he is himself. I guess it's not that unique and revolutionary after all...

    Which textbook did Fed learn his game from exactly? Agassi's, I suppose (take the ball as early as possible and control the point with a aggressive baseline game)?? But if that is so, how did he end up with a one handed backhand, a mostly defensive return game, the best slice ever played and a tiny racket headsize? No, sir. He not only mastered the textbook, he added his own chapters to it.

    Anyway, I'll just finish by saying Nadal's game isn't that much different from Carlos Moya's and Alex Corretja's, except uglier and more effective.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  37. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Fed played awesome. I have no problem saying that. He also played great against del Potro.

    My post was related to a poster saying Nadal had a grass pedigree before the 2008 Wimbledon tournament based on 5-6 matches.

    To the Bolded:

    I hope you're not making an assumption about me. I believe in everybody getting their wins. Federer, Nadal, or anyone else winning or losing doesn't affect me that way. I wish all fans felt that way and could celebrate their fave's without being so mean-spirited, don't you?

    Although you're right. Some people do get too attached to their faves.
     
  38. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    I'm not even going to respond to this, you're basically saying what I said myself.
     
  39. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal not beating Federer the other night doesn't bother me. We're in an era where we have the privilege of watching two all time greats go at it. It was good for Fed to get a win because it adds more fuel to the fire. When we get to the place where there's no suspense in their rivalry, that will be the death of a golden era.

    Over the years I've learned to appreciate what these two bring to the game (once I myself stepped back from the Rafa vs. Roger debate). But time is slipping away and soon these guys will be gone. I don't know if we'll ever experience quite like what we've been able to witness over the last seven years. I'm trying to be grateful for this period in tennis history.
     
  40. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    No we did not, but it stops here, lol.
     
  41. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Okay, can you clarify for me what you were saying then? I was saying that Nadal had enough grasscourt pedigree to be in the positions he was, just as he had enough hardcourt pedigree to beat Federer the first time they played.

    What's your stance on it?
     
  42. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    I like Federer's game generally. I do find the Djokovic and Murray game more aesthetically pleasing (less jerky/"explosive", more fluid and/or flexible), but I realize this is all subjective.


    I hate rude people who attack others. But I have to say this is the stupidest thing I have ever read on a sports board ever. MURRAY, fluid? Aesthetically appealing? Have you ever seen him serve or hit a forehand.

    I am sorry, but you must like pink polka dot shirts. U have to.
     
  43. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    well I have to agree with 2 Wimbledon finals he had enough grass pedigree in 2008. I mean he won RG on his first attempt (so did Wilander) and Becker won Wimbledon in his second year as a pro, having only played something like 9 grass matches as a pro prior to 1985 (and that's only cos the AO was on grass too, otherwise it would have been more like 5) so it's not how much you played on a surface, it's how good you are on it. 2 Wimbledon finals? I'd say good enough.
     
  44. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    yeah I scratched my head over that one too... like saying you like Gene Kelly better than Fred Astaire because Astaire was too explosive and jerky and Kelly was more gracefull and fluid.
     

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