Does Davis Cup need an overhaul?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Jeffrey573639, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. Jeffrey573639

    Jeffrey573639 Semi-Pro

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    Obviously a lot of players choose not to play it due to the difficult nature of the tour including top plays like Fed and Muzza. I've heard a suggestion where the Davis cup becomes compressed into a single event much like the Rhyder Cup for golf or the World Table Tennis Championships and plays almost like a WTF for teams i.e. lots of sponsors, one venue which changes every half a decade or so, perhaps 2 or 3 weeks etc.
    Opinions?
     
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  2. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    one of the good things about Davis cup is that it is over so many different venues. a lot of fans in different cities get to see top players compete for their countries.

    not everyone lives in London, New York, Paris and Australia.
     
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  3. akind

    akind Banned

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    I suggest ITF to give more ranking points for every player who win a DC match in a tie, perhaps 1500 ranking points for a tie. So, each time they win one or two matches in a tie, they will get 1500 points. This will make Federer and other DC skipper to think twice before they skip DC, and lower rank players will have a great chance to climb up the ranking.
     
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  4. axel89

    axel89 Banned

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    where are the hards courts and claycourts?
     
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  5. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    The casual fan doesn't understand Davis Cup so nobody follows it. One doubles only match on Saturday doesn't work. I was in Jacksonville all weekend and about 3,400 people attended, embarrassing for the city. A few ideas to stimulate interest...

    1. Make it a 2 week event hosted at multiple locations within one country (a la March Madness).
    2. Change the format from best out of 5 sets to best of 3.
    3. Make finals best of 5.
     
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  6. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    The ATP runs the rankings system and they have been more generous to the competition of late.



     
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  7. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    They could run it like the Hopman Cup with eight teams that play in two groups with semi finals and finals.

    Two best of three set singles and one doubles played in one day with a rest day to follow.

    It should be in a different city every year if that can be organised.

    If it follows the tour finals in London it would be the national team finals.
     
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  8. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    WHAT? You can't give the same weight to a DC tie that you give to winning the WTF without dropping a match. That's crazy talk man!:???:
     
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  9. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    I agree with #2 and #3 but not #1. The tennis calendar is already packed enough. There is no 2 week period where they could fit it in. The schedule has become even more compressed in the past year since some players complained that the off-season was too short. So they shortened the season. Players are more concerned with their personal seasons than this team event so it's never going to be a priority for the top players. Tennis is an individual sport. The only reason many players play is to qualify for the Olympics, which is evident in how many top players are skipping this year. It won't be necessary to play until next year in order to fill Olympics requirements.
     
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  10. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    its like in the old days in centuries gone by when the circus used to come to town..someday its gonna be in an area near you.
     
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  11. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    I never really got the whole idea of trying to turn an individual sport into a team sport. WTT and Davis Cup both seem a little silly to me. I say eliminate the ties altogether and award the cup as follows: use the year end rankings of, let's say, the top 200 players and award points as follows: 200 points to the number one, 199 points to the number two, all the way down to 1 point for the 200th ranked player. Add up the points for the five players from each country with the most points (or fewer if there aren't five players in the top 200). Country with the most total points for its five top players is awarded the Davis Cup.
     
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  12. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    (note: I'd just as soon eliminate the Cup altogether but the traditionalists would never tolerate that)
     
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  13. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Davis Cup plays a rather vital role as an incubator of tennis talent, so eliminating it would have that ill effect.
     
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  14. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Spain: 926
    France: 908
    USA: 843

    I don't bother to count other countries as the top-5 of these 3 country is by fat better ranked than the top-5 of any other country. Not very interesting.
     
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  15. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    This pops up 4 times a year with the same suggestions. I will only say that

    1) DC should be 0 points...every tournament features players from all around the globe; DC would quickly become just a regular old tournament if it started giving out Masters-level points.

    2) While many top players skip it, DC often produces some of the highest quality matches of the year and is a pressure cooker from the first point of the opening round. People who say "DC is dead" and "Players don't care about DC anymore" are crazy. A guy like Federer might not value it, but most players will not even reach a slam final, let alone win double digits. For them, winning DC is a much more attainable goal and they fight hard for it.

    3) While I really like the idea of an every 4 years, two week tournament, I don't think that will happen any time soon, if ever. They should at least make DC every other year though, that might be enough to stir up some more interest/coverage. Marat Safin said it best--You win Davis Cup in November, and then two months later you are back in the first round. No one even remembers who won last. It's like a continuous tournament.
     
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  16. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Davis cup has some great tennis. I think the current format contributes to it.

    Wawrinka Vs. Berdych was more fun than nearly all of the Australian Open matches. Maybe only the Wawrina/Djokovic and Federer/Tsonga matches were as engaging in terms of the quality tennis played.
     
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  17. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    I think you'd convince more top players to commit to Davis Cup if all rounds, bar the finals, were best of three. The prospect of a couple of tough five-setters is a risk, especially if you still have to rely on the performance of others to progress to the next round anyway.

    I agree that it's a good opportunity for lower-ranked, up and coming players to get some top level experience, and moving it around lets non-traditional venues in on the action, which is all very valuable.

    Unfortunately, for some players, especially those from countries that will never win the Davis Cup (or have done so regularly in the past), it's no longer that much of an honour and more of an obligation.

    There may be merit in switching it to every two years, to make it a bit more special, and giving more consideration to the scheduling, so the top players who go deep in most of their tournaments aren't risking being too tired either during Davis Cup or on the regular tour.

    As a Brit, I'd find it hard to get enthusiastic about our Davis Cup team, because the format just doesn't work when there is such a big gap between your number 1 and number 2 players. If you have to rely on one player winning all of their matches, it doesn't really count as a team effort. We're no where near good enough to be in the World Group, so I think it's best all around if we stay where we are for now and let the lower ranked and younger players enjoy the experience.
     
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  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Davis Cup is not big in the US, but that is not true in other countries. It and the Olympics are often the catalysts for money coming into the game and talent development. There are also junior DC and FC events. In many countries, these events play an important role in the sport, as there may be 0 or few top 100 players from these countries.
     
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  19. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    I agree. DC is Ok with the current format.
    It seems only a problem for Fedards as their god will never ever win it
     
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  20. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    It's not anyone's fault that UK hasnt got good tennis playerS enough
     
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  21. byealmeens

    byealmeens Semi-Pro

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    I agree that it does need an overhaul. I think the easiest initial adjustment is to make it best of 3 sets … I see no reason why it needs to be best of five. As far as the format, my suggestion is to run a year-end tournament as others have suggested, similar to WTF, with the top eight countries participating. The top four, however, would be the countries that made it to the semis of the previous year’s tournament. The other four would be determined through the standard DC format we use today. This way there is a big incentive to get to the semis of the tournament and it would give those countires most of the year off. Also, with 4 spots pre-determined, more countries can be allowed to compete in the regular pool to determine the other four. Just a thought …
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
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  22. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    Why would it need to be someone's fault? I was merely pointing out why I struggle to get excited about it from a nationalistic point of view, and that the format only really works for countries with a bit of depth to their talent pools, so that is one aspect to be taken into consideration when working out how to get more people to take it seriously, or if you are going to mess with how ranking points are allocated.


    [Nevertheless, I would say there are organisations within the UK that could do better, but that's a different debate for a different thread.]
     
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  23. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    What I meant is that according to you the actual format is wrong because british people dont get excited ¿?¿?

    Ok, lets change the format of the football worldcup too because US football team is rubbish and americans dont get excited...

    The format is OK, and big stars like Nadal, Berdych, Roddick took it seriously and won the title.
    If UK is mostly insignificant when it comes to tennis or if Federer hasnt won it before (even when he's got a good teammate, Stan) its not a format's fault.
     
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  24. Sorana fan

    Sorana fan Banned

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    Forgot to mention Djoko as a DC winner
     
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  25. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    Except I didn't say that.

    It was someone else who started the thread, and someone else who pointed out that it's a much bigger deal in some countries than others. Me explaining why I personally struggle to get excited about it from a flag-flying British point of view isn't moaning, it isn't saying the format needs changing. It's no more nor less than being realistic that the minor tinkering suggested won't suddenly make it relevant for countries like the UK. The point is that until Britain gets a better #2 player, we're not suited to the top tier of the Davis Cup, and why there's little point in our top player getting involved in all draws.

    I didn't at any point say the Davis Cup needs to change to somehow make it easier for countries with one good player, and loads of rubbish ones to win. To be clear, I don't think it should (or could).

    However, I would go back to the point made by several posters and myself that prestige within countries is only one half of the debate. The other part is that it may hamper a player's performance on the main tour if they are caught up in some tough five-setters, or pick up an injury etc. That's why it's good to think about scheduling and whether or not a best of five format is worth it.

    The only notable thing to happen in a British Davis Cup tie lately was Murray's triple bagel of some poor bloke from Luxemourg. That's fun for fans of unusual statistics, but it's hard to feel any nationalistic pride because of it.
     
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  26. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    Would people in, Dallas, Texas, come out to see Kazakhstan vs. Austria? And would the crowd be fired up?

    If there were only one host country for the whole event, the only way to get high attendance would be to put it all at one venue and give people a choice of what to watch. The downside, as mentioned before, is it would turn into a regular tournament.

    What makes DC so fun are the rabidly nationalistic home crowds. That's going to be lost if there's only one host nation.
     
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  27. August

    August New User

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    I don't think having DC in one place over a few weeks would work. Why people come to watch DC is to cheer for their country. If you have an Argentina-Czech Rep. tie played in e.g. USA, you can say there aren't many Argentines or Czechs in the crowd, and the crowd isn't very big at all. Big crowd doesn't care if none of Big Four plays. In Argentina or Czech Rep. you'd have a full house.

    Ryder Cup is played at one place over one weekend, and it works. That's because there are only two teams and it's always on either teams home soil. But DC World Group has 16 countries, and I dare to say big crowd in USA wouldn't care about e.g. Argentina-Czech Rep. DC final.

    So, I'd only change some things in current format, or keep it as it is. Switch to best-of-three would make DC ties physically easier, and that'd suit also for TV channels. On the other hand, it would force DC to switch to Fed Cup schedule of only two days, think about saturday's program being only one doubles Bo3 match, even two singles Bo3 matches per day is little. And in FC, I don't like that doubles are the 5th rubber, I prefer DC schedule.

    Besides, I don't think Bo5 is the biggest problem of DC. I think DC's big problems are travelling to whichever continent for one weekend and possibly having to adapt to a different surface than what you've just played on. Well, I wouldn't change the surface thing, I like it how teams select a surface that favours them, I'd allow also carpet. But anyway, I think it's reasonable to say that you may have to play one individual event less for a DC tie, Berdych is now an example on that. That's why I think it's right that they give ranking points from DC ties, those players may miss other tournaments because of DC. And I'd even go so far that I'd give prize money for rubber wins, that would be an incentive for less rich players. If you win two singles rubbers and the doubles rubber, I think that equals to at least a semi in a 250.
     
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  28. spperry

    spperry Rookie

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    A lot of the top players dont play but it still has value.

    Stepanek winning last years final rubber agsinst Almagro will probably be the biggest match he plays.

    So while the Grand slam winners may not be playing it as much and saving themselves for these events for a lot of players the Davis Cup represents their chance to play in front of crowds and in matches they otherwise wouldnt get the chance to do.
     
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  29. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I think an international 2 week competition hosted at a new country each year would have merit. Like the World Cup format with divisional round robin play to see who gets to the semi/final single elimination round. Probably need to go to 3 match tie too with 2 singles and 1 doubles. 16 teams compete with maybe top 14 teams of this year's tourney getting a return invitation for next year and 2 slots held open for qualifiers to fill. Qualifiers would play before the final tourney to win 1 of the 2 open slots.

    This would be fun - I would attend especially if it draws top players and it might due to condensed time frame. Period after USO and before WTF would be the most likely fit.
     
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  30. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    Well changing it so the only players competing in it are the top existing talents would also have the same effect, wouldn't it?
     
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  31. Vrad

    Vrad Semi-Pro

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    Well, don't host it in Dallas, TX then. But if you were hosting it in London, NYC, Vegas, LA, dubai, singapore, Sydney, etc. I am sure there would be a bunch of Austrians and Kazhaks who would come to watch, as well as a bunch of neutral observers.

    That being said, I don't think the DC should switch to that format. They need to stick to the current format with some tinkering (like the 3 set idea) and better marketing to make it popular.
     
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  32. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    I think one of the best things about Davis Cup is that it allows there to be top level tennis in countries that might not normally have a big tournament of their own. The long travel times required of some legs does make it less attractive for players who would much rather focus on their next tournament, but I think the benefits of having the event in all of the different countries is worth the risk that top players might skip it.

    I wouldn't see it as a problem to host the event over two days instead of three. In fact, I'd see it as making the event easier to market. If the hosts want to pad it out, they can open up practice sessions to members of the public.

    If the issue is getting top players to play, they need to work on adjusting the timing, so players don't turn up tired to the DC tie, or turn up to their next tournament tired.
     
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  33. UltimateBombero

    UltimateBombero Rookie

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    I just saw that US was hosting Serbia in BOISE,IDAHO??

    I think it would be interesting to have the females in the mix, too for mixed doubles.
     
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  34. August

    August New User

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    If you meant FIFA World Cup, you can't compare DC to it. One thing that makes FIFA World Cup so big compared to e.g. Davis Cup is football is a team sport. In football, it's about which team is best. In tennis, it's not about teams but about which player is best. Even if you had DC at a predetermined place, I could see more people travelling to slams than to Davis Cup, I think even WTF would have more spectators. So, I don't think a DC over two weeks is would be a good format.
     
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