Does Federer do anything better than Nadal?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by EtePras, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. EtePras

    EtePras Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    733
    I wonder how someone can be a threat for #1 if he does everything worse than the current #1, lol.

    Serve - people always talk about Federer's serve, but I would rather have Nadal's. Federer has the speed but Nadal's serve has the accuracy and spin to find the other guy's backhand every time. Look at break point conversions in all of their matches and what percentage of their games they hold serve, and it is incredibly obvious that Nadal serves better.
    Forehand - Nadal has so much better placement and controls his forehand so much better on the run
    Backhand - Not even up for debate
    Volleys - people say that Federer is better volleys, but what about the last game of Wimbledon? You see Nadal hit amazing passing shots against Federer all the time, but rarely the other way around.
    Movement - Nadal is faster and gets into position much more easily, that is why he is able to put so much on every shot
    Mental - Once again, not even up for debate
    Hard courts - see most recent GS final and most recent Master Series 1000 tournament
    Grass courts - see most recent Wimbledon final, plus Nadal faced a much tougher field in his grass warm-up the week before Wimbledon
    Clay courts - this one is just total domination, Nadal goes down 1-5 or 4-0 on purpose just to practise his mental toughness. It worked so well, not only did he win the matches where he was down 1-5, the mental toughness practice let him win Wimbledon and the Australian Open too
    Other surfaces - neither player has done anything important on other surfaces in the past year

    Any takers? Federer might've had a better forehand and serve and volleys in his prime, but that time is long gone.
     
    #1
  2. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    840
    I prefer RAfa's forehand. I think it's a killer shot and his volleying of late has improved. He sometimes has great touch in drop shots though it has worsened in the last year.

    I think Federer's first serve is better though.
     
    #2
  3. MajinX

    MajinX Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    Toronto
    wow... this is a time bomb set to go off. I cantt wait until all the nadal and fed fans see this one.
     
    #3
  4. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,108
    Location:
    Katy Perry's belly button
    You must be kidding.
     
    #4
  5. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,478
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Dress .

    -SF
     
    #5
  6. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    LOL.. They will be happy that they have another Nadal fan boy. Unless, this is another clone of Nadal Freak.
     
    #6
  7. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    nadal in all areas cept volleying, serve and grass
     
    #7
  8. fednad

    fednad Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,667
    These two statements alone define the credibility of your post.
    And you will perhaps be the only guy to want to have Nadals serve over Federer. Even die hard Nadal fans would any time take Fed's serve over Nadals.
     
    #8
  9. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,710
    Location:
    England
    Oh dear.

    Serve, forehand and volleys are still Federer. I will give you mental, backhand, and Nadal is certainly quicker than Federer, but Fed's footwork is probably better.

    Right, so by this logic, after Hamburg 2007, Federer was the better claycourter? Did Nadal play any real grass-courters at Queens? The one player with an attacking game caused Nadal real problems, and this is a guy who doesn't even possess great volleys or groundstrokes. He was nearly beaten by a serve.

    I think you should perhaps watch some tennis before commenting...
     
    #9
  10. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,710
    Location:
    England
    edit
    10 char
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
    #10
  11. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,672
    I do think Fed has an uncanny ability to hit aces when he's in trouble. He's been struggling recently, but that's still a great trick to have in your arsenal.

    I also think he's willing to be aggressive more and end the points quicker.

    And he is quicker to serve and get ready for the next point.

    Amazing shots? I like Nadal's better.
     
    #11
  12. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    No. Nadal is the best EVER! END OF THREAD!
    [​IMG]
     
    #12
  13. tahiti

    tahiti Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    840
    Compare the field in the draw at Queen's to Roger's tournament in Switzerland or the Den Bosch Holland. The better grass courters were at Queens. He's also reached the Wimbledon finals three years in row. So Rafa is definitely on his way to become a grass court specialist too.
     
    #13
  14. Dilettante

    Dilettante Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,108
    Location:
    Katy Perry's belly button
    ...not so sure about forehand, mate.
     
    #14
  15. rubberduckies

    rubberduckies Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,254
    Serve??? Are you kidding me?
    Roger has one of the best serves in the game.
    Nadal has a clown serve. His ground game is at a point where if he actually had a non-clown serve he would be pretty much unbeatable on all surfaces.

    I remember when they surveyed players in early 2008 on tennis.com or something and asked them would had the best serve, forehand, backhand, etc. For forehand, lots of players picked Nadal and nobody picked
     
    #15
  16. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    i feel so violated.. ewww.. yuk
     
    #16
  17. henryshli

    henryshli Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    733

    It's nice how you convinced only yourself in the above thread.

    Serve: Federer's it better. Count the aces. Finding opponent's BH every time requires no accuracy, a 5yo can do that. This simply reflects Nadal's lack of tactics.

    Forehand: About the same. Nadal's FH is safer because of the spin and he has a bigger margin for error. I prefer Federer's FH because I can pick up any racket and pretty much hit the same forehand all day long. Nadal's FH needs the modern technology.

    Backhand: Federer. Simply because 2BHs are ugly.

    Volleys: Federer. i don't even know why I have to justify this. Nadal doesn't come to the net as often as Federer. Nadal only comes to the net when he knows he doesn't have to hit a good volley - again a volley that a 5 yo can put away. Federer on the other hand volleys much more difficult shots.

    Movement: Yes Nadal can get to the ball faster. That is his greatest strength, his game is based on his athleticism.

    Hardcourts: Federer. Not sure why you are just referring to the last result. Perhaps you should count their H2Hs in HC.

    Grass: Sigh. Federer any day. If they played 10 matches on grass my money would be on Federer winning more of those matches.

    Clay: Nadal for sure. This surface is a big contributor to Nadal's H2H record against Federer......but why have they played so many matches on clay???? That's only because Federer could make the finals of a clay tournament and Nadal is often knocked out before the final until now.

    Physical condition: Federer. He gets injured less often than Nadal and Federer is older. Nadal will fall to pieces. This also answers the main question of this thread.
     
    #17
  18. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,778
    as of now.. win U.S. Opens..
     
    #18
  19. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    I agree that Nadal's serve is greatly underrated. Look at his most recent matches, he gets a lot of free points because opponents do a bad job of returning his serve (and that includes Fed also). He may not serve lots of aces but a- he does have the capability to pull the aces when in trouble, b- his serve placement is excellent and troubles other players a lot.
    If you're comparing Nadal to current Fed, there's no contest, that's why Nadal is ahead by more than 4000 points. Federer used to have a lethal serve but not anymore. I would say prime Fed's forehand is very close in quality to Nadal' s forehand, I've always preferred Nadal's backhand and for movement prime Fed's advantage was smoothness and rarely getting off balance while Nadal's assets are speed and reflexes.
     
    #19
  20. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    Don't be. Nadal is the best! Not to mention better skin than Federer! ;)
     
    #20
  21. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    do you also think nadals 1st serve is better than roddicks non flat first serve? just curious because both cause the opponents to receive at head height alot.
     
    #21
  22. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    I disagree about the backhand: the onehanded backhand is too vulnerable, 2 handed more efficient (that's why 1 handed is slowly disappearing).
    I disagree about grass, if they played 10 matches on grass NOW, Nadal would win practically all of them, Nadal almost won W 2008 in straights even though Fed was playing the best grass court tennis of his life (according to his fans themselves, first time he won Halle without dropping a set, didn't lose a set either in W before the final). For physical condition Nadal is a beast, sure he's had problems with his feet and knees but they haven't stopped him from playing much so far and in 5 setters noone has better conditioning than Nadal. His 5 set record (only 3 lost careerwise, only one after the age of 18, 0 on clay) is mindboggling. Federer (who has lost a lot of 5 set matches in his career) doesn't even come close.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
    #22
  23. clayman2000

    clayman2000 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,849

    You just lost all credibility when you said Federer has better physical condition. Physical condition doesn't mean whose less injury prone, but more if the game goes long, who will be in better condition at the end

    Serve - Federer no question. For me the best serve in the game after Karlovic, tied with roddick. Look at Wimby 07 and you will see why FedAce won.

    Forhand - right now i would take Nadal. He is absolutely amazing at hitting lines and putting people away when they are on the run. Federer's is good no doubt, especially when he takes it on the rise, but right now it is too inconsistent

    Backhand - Nadal. He can really take controll of a point with his backhand. On defence he can use the slice all day, and then when he gets on even footing, dictates play with the 2 hand

    Volley - federer. Nadal volleys well for when he comes to net, but he really never has to make any tough volleys at net. Federer has great feel and touch

    Movement - Nadal.

    Hard Court - Nadal. federer has a mental block

    Clay court - see last post

    Grass Court - toss up. Federer moves so well on grass and is almost impossible to break. But Nadal owns Federer and is also a grass maestro

    Physical Condition - Nadal. See AO 2009 for proof
     
    #23
  24. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    No, Roddick's first serve is insane. I would still choose Nadal's serve though (for myself) because it's more reliable and it's easier for Nadal to keep it consistent even during a long match. The problem with Roddick's is that although his first serve is unbelievable, he gets tired doing it and there's often a point in the set or the match when it deserts him and then he's in trouble.
     
    #24
  25. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,828
    Roger has better serve, much more agressive!
     
    #25
  26. Ripster

    Ripster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,238
    So you gave forehand, serve and volleys to Nadal? The forehand is debatable; I'd still take Federer's. But in NO WAY does Nadal have a better serve or volleys. Not a chance.
     
    #26
  27. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    im in favor of him mixing up his first serve from flat and 145 mph to top spin kicking head height and 105 mph. it really keeps the opponents off guard.
    im truely impressed with the work ethic and work done with his new coach this year.. come on hes out of prime age and still working HARD to improve. some credit is due.

    Roddick will most likely go down in history as the best server the game has had in its history, Unless someone else can step up for as many years with more dominance.
     
    #27
  28. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Your picture demonstrates that he's the best looking ever (thanks for the reminder)! As for tennis, we'll see, you seem to consider that it's a totally preposterous proposition but if he keeps up his current winning pace it's a possibility, absolutely not a certainty, of course not, but a possibility sure.
     
    #28
  29. thejoe

    thejoe Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,710
    Location:
    England
    Yes, he played amazing tennis, and then didn't turn up to the final for two sets.
     
    #29
  30. bolo

    bolo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,380
    the other way around, most picked federer, except for murray who picked nadal. I think federer also might have picked nadal becaue he probably didn't want to pick himself.
     
    #30
  31. coyfish

    coyfish Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,621
    As far as movement goes, Nadal is amazing no doubt but he plays so far back like monfils. He ends up running / having to hit harder from so far back.

    Even if fed is in a defensive position, he hugs the baseline and takes riskier shots taking it much earlier than nadal does.

    I think fed's variety is one of a kind. He changes pace and picks his winners. Even though hes been losing more often, its still a winners / error battle for him. Seems like hes always in control.

    Nadal on the other hand has one of a kind consistancy and the ability to grind. He plays very 1 dimensionally and always hits the same way with the occasional lazy slice.

    These players are so different its hard to really say what one does better than the other. I think most agree however that Fed's 1st serve is more a weapon than Nadals.
     
    #31
  32. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    997
    You don't know what you are writing. You write a bunch of craps. If Nadal wipe his *** you would think that is charming or cute. You probably think that his butt wiping routine is cute. So what else Nadal does that doesn't look great in your eyes?
     
    #32
  33. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,706
    Location:
    U.S
    That's a load of crap . Fed played better in every other Wimbledon final since 2003 ( except for 2004 ) than he played in 2008 ...He was off for the majority of the first 2 sets .... and your statement that nadal would win 10 on 10 on grass is laughable . Maybe on a video game/computer game, not in real life. Sorry to say, but your bias is as evident as nadal_freak's is !
     
    #33
  34. KerryJ

    KerryJ Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    577
    Location:
    Houston

    I didn't read the thread so if someone else said this my bad


    The reason Federer doesn't pass Nadal, and why he always seems to be missing volleys is because he comes to the net more than Nadal. And I almost said Federer has a greater will to win generally speaking but then I remembered something my friend told me.

    Apparently, at some point during the third set against Murray, Federer hits a shot that is called out (I think it was a serve). Murray is saying it was in and then Federer says "I don't care, I want to go home". My friend was at Indian Wells courtside and I believe it happened. He looked unmotivated throughout the Verdasco match as well
     
    #34
  35. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Messages:
    9,190
    Location:
    Silvis, IL
    you would choose nadal's serve over roddicks?

    WHAT?

    roddick hits both his serves, first and second, with more pace/spin than nadal does, and while nadal usually has a higher first serve percentage, roddick has more free points..

    i saw how someone also mentioned that nadal is more fit than federer. perhaps, but i've never seen federer ''run out of gas'' in a match against nadal. he doesn't ever look exhausted or worn out, but he usually looks like he's given up mentally. even in the wimbledon final it wasn't fatigue but mental surrender that caused him to lose. nadal was chiseling away at his serve and he didn't put anymore effort into the match after he was broken (that being said, he still pushed to deuce, the furthest in 5 nadal service games before losing)

    in fact last year at australia was the only time i've seen him really lose out of fatigue.
     
    #35
  36. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    I agree, Roddick is not a quitter and is still working hard on his game. I was impressed by his level in IW.
     
    #36
  37. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    i think federer's serve recently is being hampered by his back problem. although it's minor back problem, i think it's subtely affecting his serving. well i guess it's part of aging...
     
    #37
  38. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    6,073
    What the hell? Where do you come up with this stuff? So you are saying we should just pencil in Nadal for a Wimbledon win as well? I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. The reason you don't see a lot of people with 1 handers has absolutely nothing to do with it not being as efficient as a 2 hander. If anything it's easier to teach a 2 hander to small kids and some of them become so dependent on it and are so in love with winning that they are reluctant to make the switch. Whenever I see a young child hitting a 1 hander, I'm quite impressed.
     
    #38
  39. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    997
    She's so in love with Nadal that everything he does is so great. And now she claims to be the expert on tennis too. One-hander is inefficient, blah, blah, blah.

    What a nit-wit. If you are so sure Nadal would win then go damn ahead and bet the house in Vegas. Put your money where your mouth is. Nadal is playing great tennis now, but in sports, there is nothing such as a guarantee win. A lot of things can happen. Fed is not playing good tennis now but that doesn't mean Fed is finished! You are too stupid to know the difference.
     
    #39
  40. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    first serve % numbers for the first part of 2009

    notice nadal is awesome on the second serve but doesnt exist in first serve top 10. nadals first serve is not as reliable as many think.. its his second that is gonna jump outta the stadium and is always in a good spot and in play.

    http://sports.optimum.net/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=cablevision&page=tennis-m/stat/atp-matchfacts.htm

    shockingly verdasco has the highest first serve % on tour this year.
     
    #40
  41. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    Maybe but it's harder to break down a 2 handed. Federer has a lot of trouble on his backhand now vs both Nadal and Murray. Which players who have a 1 handed do you find very competitive? Gasquet? It seems to me in the future mostly everyone will have a 2 handed.
     
    #41
  42. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13,743
    Federer wins the crying in public after losing the final v. Nadal award (Wimbledon 08)

    Nadal wins the discrete crying in the locker room award after losing the final v. Federer award. (Wimbledon 07) award.

    Tie for post match emotion.
     
    #42
  43. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    1st serve percentage doesn't mean best quality or best placed serve. Actually it could even mean somebody taking less risk on the first serve.
     
    #43
  44. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Nadal's got a pretty good serve but saying it is better then Federer's is ridiculous. Fed is also a better first serve returner. After that, Nadal has about everything over Federer.
     
    #44
  45. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    The award would have to go to Federer after AO for best crying in public.
     
    #45
  46. deltox

    deltox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,639
    Location:
    NC, USA
    roddick doesnt have the best quality first serve? maybe its because im a roddick fan but i was under the assumption roddicks first serve was one of the most lethal on the tour ever.
     
    #46
  47. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    6,073
    There are several players with good one handed backhands. You have only named two people that are able to exploit Federer's back hand and that's because the hit with a lot of topspin to get it up high making it difficult to deal with.

    How many people can you name that hit a one-hander? LOL, that statement is sort of ridiculous. It's kinda like saying, how many people do you know with a 2 handed forehand that you find very competitive. A very high percentage of the tour hits with 2 hands so of course there are going to be more higher ranked people with a two-handed backhand. Gasquet's backhand is outstanding it's the rest of his game that's the problem not his backhand.
     
    #47
  48. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13,743

    You're right. It will be an award never to be won by anyone else.

    Oh gosh, I can just imagine him emoting at his child's birth.
     
    #48
  49. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    I was talking in general there not about Roddick in particular. I've already said before that I did find Roddick's serve insane.
     
    #49
  50. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,959
    Location:
    New York
    I still prefer the 2 handed. Is that allowed or should I be fined for it?
     
    #50

Share This Page