Does the beginning of the season need restructuring?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by edmondsm, Oct 15, 2009.

  1. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    January

    Off-season. Absolutely no ATP tour events.

    Febuary

    Indoor tournaments for the first couple weeks:

    • Memphis
    • San Jose
    • Stockholm
    • Etc.

    South American claycourts at the same time:

    • Vina del Mar
    • Costa de Suipe
    • Buenas Aires
    • Etc.

    3rd week of February-Indian Wells immediately followed by Miami.

    (the weather is pretty nice in both places this time of year, temperature in the 60's)

    March

    Aussie warm-ups the first two weeks, followed immediately by the Aussie Open


    April and May

    Clay court season begins as usual ending with the French Open


    For me this makes a lot more sense then having the Aussie in January followed by a mix of American hard courts and South American clay courts before going to Europe. Get all those little tournaments done early, have IW and Miami, go do the Australia thing for a month, and then go to Europe. The entire month of January being blank will no doubt lead to some tournaments being dropped, but the players seem to want an off-season. It's gotta go somewhere.
     
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  2. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    Good luck moving the Aussie...

    Its in the Summer school holidays in Australia, and I can't see them moving it..

    I say lose either Miami or Indian Wells, as well as either one or two tourney's like Montreal or Cincy, and a few clay court events, and then you have a decent sized season. I cant understand why we have two hard courts seasons, when we just finish with the Australian in January.

    I say award a grass court masters to the calander and make the grass court season a little longer to help the players, and have an Australian Masters event. Thats why I say ditch either Miami or IW..

    They should hold the Year end masters in October after the US, and then give them November and December off....
     
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  3. obsessedtennisfandisorder

    obsessedtennisfandisorder Professional

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    agree 100%...but good luck with that on these boards as there are a lot
    of americans on here and they flame me sometimes, which you would expect.

    I'm impressed the TWers embrace players from other countries and support them like their own...but when it comes to rejigging the calender?

    I suggested last year swapping dates between IW/Miami and shanghai/paris
    every alternate year and that did not go down well here either.
    I also suggested scraping cinncy aswell as others in europe to reduce to just 5 ms tounrys.

    Some made very valid points and maybe another approach is best.

    I've said it before and I will say it again:

    The top players should simply boycott masters series until the ranking system
    is changed, but that won't happen because business wise...they can't see the forest for the trees.
    Instead all we get is *****fests (like now) which help no-one.

    As for the aussie open..it is a huge success largely because of where it is in the calender. ...I've made points before about that..and the hypocrisy
    in wanting the tournanment moved later. I'm happy
    to listen about moving the aussie when the US open is moved 2 weeks forward :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2009
    #3
  4. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    I'm sure you've brought this up a number of times now and each time it's been clearly and politely explained that the Australian Open CANNOT be played outside of the Dec-Jan-Feb timeslot.

    Are you just looking to provoke another argument or do you need to have the explanation simplified even further (I don't think that's possible) ?
     
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  5. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    Do a search, jackass, and see if I ever brought this up before. Why don't you school me in the reasons for not moving the Australian Open, since you obviously think yourself such the scholar that your first instinct is to condescend to the OP rather then enter into a civilized discussion.

    Is the only reason for not moving the Aussie honestly have to do with the school days in Australia? That seems ridiculous.
     
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  6. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I actually posted this as my 2nd thread ever on TTW. :shock:

    OK, we all know the season is too long. Here are some of my proposals to shorten things up. Or clear things up a bit.
    1. Have the AO start in Feb.
    2. Add an extra week or two between the French & Wimby
    -This could maybe make room for...
    3. Add a grass court MS title
    -this way grass won't be seen as such a red-headed stepchild, save Wimbledon.
    4. Shorten the US HC season
    5. Have the last 2 Masters series events & the MC start early Oct.
    -Less indoor warm-up events

    Season over by the start of November.

    As for the Davis Cup, maybe this isn't the right thread for that discussion, but what the heck. Davis Cup should be once ever 2 years, at different spots around the world, one week best of three (2 singles, one double rubber per tie) And to lessen the strain, make matches best of 3 sets.

    Just a thought balloon, feel free to comment.
     
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  7. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    They'd have to cram in the indoor masters right after the USO. They might end up getting even worse participation then they do now. Might be possible if they bag one of the indoor masters, which they should. I like the idea of getting rid of Cincy too. The US already has two masters events.
     
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  8. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

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    Maybe you could have a smaller qualifying Davis Cup every odd year with say, the semifinalists from the previous DC automatically qualifying.

    I still say though that it would be awesome if the DC was every 4 years (2 years removed from the Olympics) and they took a month out of the schedule to play it, like the World Cup. This of course is an impossibility.
     
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  9. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    The fact is, if they are going to have any masters events, then they should be played evenly on all surfaces, and evenly across the globe. If you want to have Masters events in the US then play them before the US Open and get rid of IW and Miami, and make them 500 or 250 events.

    You cant move the Australian Open, because yes, it is holiday time, and not only kids are off, but parents too. It will never be moved from January. So I say Australia should have a masters series on plexipave in Australia, or Asia to take over from IW and Miami, and have one in Brisbane, and the other in Asia alternating.
     
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  10. tikkimonkey

    tikkimonkey Rookie

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    Yay, SAP open.
     
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  11. jman

    jman Semi-Pro

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    Slotting the Aussie Open in March, is when Autumn season starts. Believe me, down there in Melbourne it starts to get really cold around that time of the year. I don't think the fans would be happy with that. Aussie Open is usually associated with Board shorts and beer, also girls in their bikini tops :p

    I say scrap everything or don't make them mandatory after the U.S Open and play the ATP Tour Finals last week of October and DC stays as is. Also make either Halle or Queens a Grass Masters Event.
     
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  12. Baikalic

    Baikalic Semi-Pro

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    just how cold does Melbourne get?
    just wondering.
     
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  13. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

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    No.

    10 char
     
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  14. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    Lets just say they get snow from time to time..
     
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  15. jman

    jman Semi-Pro

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    It varies, but around autumn and winter in can get well below 10C, I think that's about 50F.
     
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  16. 8pNADAL

    8pNADAL Banned

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    australian open organisers dont care about tennis, they've been asked to change the date and refused, should move it to asia or something, maybe an INDOOR CARPET SLAM
     
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  17. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    If you were old enough to even know. Then you would know that the Australian Open has already moved. It moved from Dec to Jan in the 80's.

    Go read a history book and find out why Australia not only deserves, but has its own Grand Slam.. I am sick of young kids coming on the boards with stupid suggestions when they simply have no idea or clue about the history of the game..

    Its idiots like you that will destroy this sport with ideas of chasing the money in markets like Asia simply because you might make a quick buck..

    The Australian has already opened itself for growth by including Asia in its marketing, and calling itself the Grand Slam of Australia and Asia.

    You would never see the US Open calling itself the grand Slam of the America's. Or Wimbledon and French becoming the Grand Slams of Europe and the middle east would you?

    What more do people want? Australia to change its weather pattern to suite the northern hemisphere? Lets try moving our summer from Dec Jan to April or June, just so you trolls can get what you want?

    Move the effing US Open, Wimbledon and the French if you want to move something.....
     
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  18. 8pNADAL

    8pNADAL Banned

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    how is it relevant that australia already moved their slam? its still not a good date, hardly any preparation before it and a huge gap until the french open; maybe it can change its name to the australiasian open and have a different country from that area of the world host it each year
     
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  19. ace0001a

    ace0001a Semi-Pro

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    Relax mate, a forum should be more tolerant and more constructive. It almost sounds like you've got a chip on your should when it comes to northern and southern hemisphere affairs. I've been a fan and player of the game for over 20 years and I do recall even hearing commentators like Fred Stolle and Cliff Drysdale saying they thought the Aussie Open should be moved. Reversed seasons aside, I always thought it was strange to have a Grandslam so early in the year. The US Open seems to fair well at the end of summer, so I can't see why it wouldn't work for the Aussie Open...so having it in late late January or even early to mid February would make more sense to me.

    Found this article from earlier this year:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...lls-for-Australian-Open-to-be-moved-back.html
     
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  20. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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  21. 8pNADAL

    8pNADAL Banned

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    i like the australian open, but i don't like some of the decisions they've made, including the surface change
     
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  22. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I haven't read all the replies, so excuse me if this has already been said.

    It makes perfect sense (on paper) to have Indian Wells and Miami as warm-up tournaments to an Australian Open played starting mid or late March. The weather in Melbourne would probably be generally better at that time as well.

    But, the AO is a summer showcase event. Part of the success is that it occurs during the Australian summer. I think it would be very difficult to convince organizers to change that.
     
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  23. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    It seems like you guys have your priorities all mixed up.. The Australian Open is a Grand Slam. So why are you all so keen on having IW or Miami in the mix at all? Why should a Grand Slam tournament be moved simply so you can have IW and Miami on the schedule? A lead up to the Australian it would not be, as it is in a different time zone, different surface, and different weather? March in Melbourne as stated before can get cold. So that's why it cant be moved. Melbourne is known for its unusual weather. And it might even snow for all we know. Or rain out. Its just the way the place is..
     
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  24. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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  25. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    Its only not a good date for you. For the country of Australia, it is perfect because it is in our summer holiday season. People go to the tournament, and or watch it live on Television while having b-b-q's and parties..

    If any tournament should be moved, it should be the US Open from September to August. That way you are also in your summer, and the year can come to a close sooner by playing the indoor tournaments in September October.
     
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  26. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

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    The same thing could very easily be said about the state of tennis in the USA and the number of tournaments they have there. Why should the USA keep the USopen since their market has been shrinking at a far greater rate than either the european or asia-pacific markets? Of course I dont want that to happen but I hope you see my point of how silly yours statement is in regards to the Aus Open.

    Should we move Wimbledon to Serbia or Belgium because the UK sucks at tennis and those countries see tennis growing rapidly in popularity?

    What a disaster that would be for the popularity of the game.
    Instead of tuning in to see Wimbledon every June fans all over the world turn on the TV and see Federer battling Nadal in some stadium in Belgrade.

    There are 4 out of 9 masters series events in North America, compared to 0 in Australia and the UK, and 1 in France (also 1 in Monaco).

    A huge positive change, imo, would be to push the Aus Open back to begin in mid Feb while it is still summer, rather than March which can be a fairly wet month in Melbourne, and have 1 of the Masters events, either Indian Wells or Miami, played in Asia or Australia (sydney or Adeleide) in the lead up to the event.

    Have the French start a couple of weeks earlier, Wimbledon start at the same date but have a Masters event played on grass before hand, Push the USopen forward a couple of weeks and shorten the indoor season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
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  27. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

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    It's not a good date for you.
    Luckily for everyone else the whole world doesn't revolve around you.

    Tennis is not an American game. The season is not, and should not, be about what is best for American fans.

    Maybe the USopen should be the American Open and have a different country in North or South America host it every year.

    :confused:
     
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  28. srinrajesh

    srinrajesh Guest

    Reduce the no. of Masters to 8 from 9. Move two masters out of US- one to Aus. and One dropped off altogether.
    Sttart AO in Feb after playing one masters (climate would be less hotter as well)
    Play the davis cup 1st R and QTF in the same week at common venue.
    Make Queens club the grass masters and increase gap between FO and Wimby to 4 weeks. Move the USO one week earlier so that the indoor season starts end of september and the YEC ends by october end.

    The davis cup final ends by november first week and the new season would start Mid January giving all players minimum of 2 months rest. Here's the summary

    Jan Warm ups start Mid Jan 1 MS Hard
    Feb AO
    March Davis Cup 1st rd and QTF 1 MS Hard
    April 1 MS Clay
    May 1 MS Clay FO
    June 1MS
    July Wimby (Min 3-4 weeks gap after FO)
    July
    Aug 1 MS and USO
    Sep Davis cup SF
    Oct 2 MS YEC
    Nov 1st week Davis cup final
     
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  29. SuperDuy

    SuperDuy Hall of Fame

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    Don't lose Montreal/Toronto, thats our only ATP tour event in Canada!
     
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  30. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    I don't mind Montreal/Toronto because at least it rotates in order for more people to enjoy it.. But 4 out of 9 Masters in the North America is over kill....

    I say, get rid of IW and Miami, and rotate them with Cincy...

    As for the AO, it simply cant and shouldn't be moved because of the holiday season. I actually don't mind the break between the AO and FO.. A lot of tennis is played between then.

    Keep the dates as is, with Brisbane being a Masters event (the players all seem happy to arrive early for that anyway by the names already booked), and the Hopman Cup and Kooyong (men & women) event as warm ups. As well as Auckland and Hobart for the girls.

    My Masters events would be:

    1)Brisbane/Sydney: Plexipave

    GS: Australian Open: Plexipave

    2)Rome: Clay

    3)Madrid: Clay

    GS: French Open: Clay

    Monte-Carlo (Optional)

    4)Queens/Halle: Grass

    GS: Wimbeldon: Grass

    5)Montreal/Toronto: HC

    6)Cinsinnati/ Indian Wells/ Miami: HC

    GS: US Open: HC

    7)Shanghai/ Tokyo/: Indoor

    8 )Paris: Indoor

    ATP Final: Rotating between Continents.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
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  31. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

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    Why not make Jan/Feb the Asia tour - have Japan start off the year, then AO, then the China leg in February, with China Open and Shanghai. That way there wouldn't have to be an Asia tour after USO.

    Then after USO would be the Europe indoor season, and you could shave a month off the season, which would end by Halloween.
     
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  32. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

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    It makes no sense to devote the equivalent of a month of the tennis season to Australia, with all the warm-up tournaments and then the AO. Split some of those weeks with Japan, like I suggested. Japan is a huge market, much bigger than Australia.
     
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  33. CatLasagna

    CatLasagna Banned

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    "Why should tennis Slams always be in the same places?"

    Would you like to move Wimbledon somewhere else?
    How about Roland Garros?
    Maybe shift the US Open across to the West?
    The Australian open can go to China ..... that'll work out well....

    Slams need to stay where they are because thats what they are for. Having a definite location for a given surface. If Asia establishes itself as a power in tennis and even more so in the economy in the coming years, then perhaps they could push the case for a 5th Grand Slam.

    Just dont see the Australian Open moving ever, such a bad idea.
     
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  34. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

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    You probably can't start with Japan because it's an indoors event. Ok so have an Asian indoor series after the AO. Maybe have Japan right after AO then the China leg.
     
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  35. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    We already have a month devoted to tennis, so I don't understand this point? You simply have to have the month devoted purely so the players can adjust to the climate and time zone. Kinda like why do we need to have a month long US Open series before the USO? Same reason.

    Its just a shame that too much time is wasted at IW and Miami, and a few of the clay tournaments, when the grass season gets no love at all.. That's why I believe there should be more of a grass season and a little less of the clay and US HC. You would see better tennis, and prolong players careers.
     
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  36. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    Japan is an out door event with a retractable roof... But in saying that, it can be used for an indoor tournament if needed...
     
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  37. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

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    THere are 180 million people in Japan, the world's second largest economy. There are 21 million people in Australia. Devoting 1/10 of the tennis season to Australia is like devoting a month of tennis to Canada. It makes no sense.
     
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  38. Crispix

    Crispix Rookie

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    Japanese people aren't really into tennis that much, when compared to Australia, I mean compare the great tennis players from Australia to the ones from Japan (Which isn't much i add...).
     
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  39. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    It's not overkill as that's the way it's been for a very long time. Cincinnati, Montreal, Miami, and Indian Wells are probably the 4 biggest events. Miami and Indian Wells easily are the top 2 attended masters, and Cincinnati and Montreal consistently pull big crowds every year.



    They are not going to move them. Trust me.
     
    #39
  40. Lotto

    Lotto Professional

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    The Clay-court season-Wimbledon needs restructuring, thats what needs to be changed big time!! If someone does really well and wins the RG-Wimbledon double they will struggle fitness wise towards the latter end with tiredness, ala Rafa and even Roger is more tired this season...arguably the twins but the double took a monumental effort.
     
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  41. statto

    statto Professional

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    I like Darth Timmaayyy's schedule a lot. One thing is for sure - you shouldn't prioritise masters events over slams. I'd tweak one or two things though:

    January
    MS#1: Indian Wells/Miami
    MS#2: Shanghai/Tokyo/Wellington
    February
    GS#1: Australian Open
    March
    MS#3: Monte Carlo
    MS#4: Rome/Madrid
    April
    GS#2: Roland Garros
    May
    MS#5: Queens/Halle
    June
    GS#3: Wimbledon
    July
    MS#6: Canada
    MS#7: Cincinnati
    August
    GS#4: US Open
    September
    MS#8: Paris/Hamburg
    ATP Finals: Various
    October-December
    Off

    In the months with two masters titles players would have the option of only playing one. Under this schedule they could play them all and still only have to play two weeks per month.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
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  42. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    I laugh every time you post. Because you never get your information right..

    Japan only has 120 million people. not 180. Secondly, tennis isn't even available on free to air television in Japan, and what ever you can find of it, its always a month late anyway on replay. Lastly. Did you see the crowds at the last two events in Tokyo recently. The place wasn't even half full for the finals, and barely quarter full for the round matches.

    Australia on the other hand sells out everything.. Been to an Australian Open recently? That place is always humming in January, and now with the new tournament in Brisbane starting last at the beginning of this yea at the new center. Well try moving around there. Also, Australia is lucky that we have a broadcaster like Channel seven, that dedicates its summer to tennis coverage.. I mean all day every day. Can you say that about tv coverage in the US? espn, cbs anyone??
     
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  43. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    i love t3nn1s..

    What a cute name. Did you think that one up yourself?

    lol
     
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  44. Darth_Timmaayyy!!

    Darth_Timmaayyy!! Banned

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    I changed it a little for you.. Becaue of the weather still being cold in the northern hemisphere in February, I thought that the season does have room for 10 Master events. But feel that two of those events should be optional. Meaning that they dont have to play if they don't want. However, if IW and Miami want to keep their tournament, then they should only be 250 or 500 point events, and not masters. I did the same with Monte Carlo, as with France having a Grand Slam at Roland Garros, and an indoor MS event in Paris. Then I think that another tournament in that area is not necessary.

    I also believe that the year end Masters should Rotate continents and be played on different surfaces that the hosts wish to use. Indoor or out door..
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2009
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