Donnay X series grip sizing

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by arnoldr, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. arnoldr

    arnoldr New User

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    Hi guys. I remember reading that Donnay grips run smaller(1 size ?). Can anybody confirm this ? I usually play with a 4 1/4 with overgrip.

    thanks

    arnoldr
     
    #1
  2. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    Yeah, they run about a full size small.
     
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  3. arnoldr

    arnoldr New User

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    Thanks Diagoras. Are they really smaller or they are shaped differently ??
     
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  4. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    They are really smaller.
     
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  5. NeverGassed1212

    NeverGassed1212 Rookie

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    I switched to the x gold 99 from head radicals and the 4 1/4 grip feels bigger to me. It is definitely because of the shape is different from the rectangular Head shape. After a few different set ups I am now using multiple overgrips over the bare handle. It may seem smaller to people that use different brands but if you are used to Head racquets and depending on your grip it can feel bigger.
     
    #5
  6. arnoldr

    arnoldr New User

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    I play Head sticks in 4 1/4 but my old TI-S2 feels smaller than the Radical. The S2 grip is more rounded though so I guess shape makes a difference.
     
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  7. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    I wrapped a piece of painter's tape around a Wilson racquet with a 4-1/4" grip and marked it. I then wrapped it around a Donnay 4-1/4" grip and they match up EXACTLY. I also did the same thing with a 4-3/8" grip.

    I've been hearing that "Donnay runs a size small" for a long time now. It is simply not true. Period. If you don't believe me, then measure it for yourself. The perimeter of whatever Donnay grip size you measure will be exactly what it is supposed to be.

    If I really strain my eyes and pull the tape tight around the Donnay handle, I suppose I could MAYBE detect 1/4 or 1/2 grip size smaller. But that's stretching things a little. Basically, it's the same size. It's in between a Dunlop and a Wilson handle shape. I prefer the Wilson shape, but I can modify the Donnay slightly to approximate the Wilson shape by adding one strip of painter's tape on each of the wide bevels.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
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  8. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    We just finished our second demo session with some Donnays tonight (Gold 99, Gold 94, and Platinum 99... my friend is looking into buying one), and everyone agreed that the grips were small.

    And it's not just us, I've heard this before about Donnays, and the three we demo'd a few weeks ago were the same way (Silver, Orange, Dark Red).

    YMMV, but I guarantee you that if I were buying one, I would definitely go one size up from my normal size.
     
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  9. arnoldr

    arnoldr New User

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    Thank you all....
     
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  10. jonestim

    jonestim Professional

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    I use Prince racquets and demoed a 4 1/2" Gold 99 at the same time I was demoing the Prince Tour 100s. Donnay felt one size smaller than a Prince.
     
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  11. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    They do not run a full size small, i have used and played with many of the new donnays. I have measured all of these rackets and they were either right on the size listed or barely smaller.

    Anyone that says it felt a full size smaller but does not measure the handle is only speculating. I love it when i hear people say that this felt head heavy or this rackets handles run to large or small, but they don't weigh or measure it.

    The soft tape measures that are used for sewing cost a few dollars and will tell you exactly what the grip size is. I have measured many racket handles and they are usually real close to the size listed, some company's may run slightly larger or smaller but i have never found one a full size off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
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  12. drake

    drake Semi-Pro

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    I have 4 Donnays and the grips are 1 overgrip smaller, as Tim says, just barely.
     
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  13. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    Well, I've got them right here in my hands, and I've measured them (although I knew I didn't need to, since you can simply see the space between your middle finger and the base of your thumb when gripping the racquet).

    The Gold 99, which is a Donnay size 4, measures EXACTLY 4 3/8" (i.e. exactly one size small).

    The Gold 94 they sent us actually is a Donnay size 3 (mistake by TW... they were all supposed to be size 4), and it measures just a hair over 4 1/4" (maybe a 64th of an inch larger than 4 1/4").

    The fact is that just looking at them they look small, and every single one of us recognized the size discrepancy when holding the racquets. With the size 3, my middle finger touches the base of my thumb... never has a size 3 done that in my hand with any other racquet.
     
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  14. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Like i said some of them run slightly under the size listed, but most are close. Some other brands i have found to be slightly larger when measured. So if you are used to one that runs a little larger and now use a donnay that may be a little smaller then you will notice a big difference.
     
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  15. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    Well, I don't have a Gold 94 or 99 frame, specifically, but I do happen to have a brand new X-Dark Red, with the shrink wrap freshly removed from the grip. It's supposed to be a 4-1/4" grip size. I just measured it and it is EXACTLY 4-1/4". In fact, according to my ruler that measures to the 0.010" mark, it's actually 0.010" LARGER than 4-1/4".

    So quite honestly, I cannot possibly believe any of the reports that the grips are "a full size smaller." It's just not true. They use the same pallets on every frame, so they HAVE to be the same. If mine measures 4-1/4", then they all must measure 4-1/4".

    The only possible exceptions MIGHT be the Donnay X-series frames that come with leather grips. Mine has a white synthetic grip, so I cannot say what size the leather grips measure. But for all the frames with white synthetic grips, I know for sure that the 4-1/4" size is spot on.

    I also have other Dark Reds in the 4-3/8" grip size. They definitely feel larger than the 4-1/4" grip, but since I have already replaced the original white grips with leather, I cannot say for sure what size they were originally. But now, with the leather grips, they measure exactly 4.35", which is only 0.025" (less than 1/32") smaller than the target 4-3/8" size.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011
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  16. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Grips on my two sticks feel like they may run a fraction small but certainly not a full grip size.
     
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  17. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    That is completely absurd.

    Here are some pics that prove you wrong...

    First, the size 4, marked on a thin piece of paper (since sewing tape is fairly thick, and obviously would throw off the measurement, adding extra length that really isn't there):

    [​IMG]

    Next, the size 3 (apologies for the blurry edges here, it's just hard to get good focus at such a close distance):

    [​IMG]

    And lastly the measurement itself:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, the size 4 is at least a full size small, while the size 3 is extremely close to being a full size small, and nowhere near the size it is supposed to be.

    And as I said before, we've demo'd 6 Donnays total, and each of the other 4 were also too small, exactly like these. So your suggesting that they are not at or near a full size small is careless at least, and dishonest at worst. I suspect you have made your measurements with sewing tape, which will automatically add extra length to your measurements. Depending on the thickness of the tape and the grip being measured, it could add anywhere from 1/16" to 1/8". Thus the only way to take an accurate measurement is with something much thinner, like a thin piece of paper.

    Case closed.
     
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  18. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Sorry but the thickness of paper compared to the thickness of a sewing tape makes no difference. We are measuring the outside diameter, the sewing tape conforms to the outside of the handle perfectly. The tape can be pulled snug against the handle so the measurement is very accurate, the difference of paper thickness compared to the tape thickness which is not that much anyway and makes no difference at all.

    I just measured a handle using a tape measure and then your paper method they were almost identical, but the tape measure actually showed a slightly smaller measurement. Again i have measured many donnay handles and they are very close to the size shown, some do run slightly under.

    But i have measured other company's rackets and they to are really close to their listed size, but some of them run slightly larger. So if a player is used to one that runs slightly larger and then uses a donnay which is slightly smaller then it would make the donnay seem smaller than what it is. Sorry but the tape does not lie, i have never measured a racket that was a full size off maybe a half size but never a whole size.
     
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  19. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    That is simply wrong.

    Of course it makes a difference. I checked with the sewing tape when I was making my measurements and it indeed gives a significantly larger measurement, one that is flat-out inaccurate (e.g. it says that the Donnay size 4 grip is nearly 4 1/2", whereas the paper method reads exactly 4 3/8", and it says that all of our other brand of racquet grips that are 4 1/2" are actually 4 5/8", when paper reads no more than 4 1/2"). It's simple geometry: the thicker the material, the larger the reading. That's why I use paper, as it simply gives a much more accurate measurement.

    There are three facts that all coincide here:

    1. Along with the OP, I've heard from various people that Donnay grip sizes run about a size small. Bizarre coincidence? I think not.

    2. The four of us in our group have noticed this with all 6 of the Donnay racquets we've demo'd, with all 6 of the grips being noticeably about one size smaller than they should be.

    3. I have provided photo proof that the grips on the Donnays we just used are indeed right at or very near a whole size smaller than they should be.

    Now maybe you actually do have one that is close to normal size, but that sounds like the exception rather than the rule, considering all of the evidence to the contrary. Furthermore, the other guy claiming that all Donnays are in fact the proper size - simply because he believes his Donnay grip is the proper size - is just plain ridiculous. My photos prove that this is nonsense, and I suspect that he used sewing tape that was significantly thicker than paper, which would explain everything.

    Lastly, the fact is that I am a non-partisan observer. I do believe that Donnay makes good racquets - and I am not trying to knock them at all - but I simply have no horse in this race because I do not own one, nor do I plan on buying one at this time (the Platinum 99 was the one I was most interested in, but it came from TW at too low a tension, so our playtest with that one was unfruitful). In other words, I couldn't care less if they are making their grips small or not, but every single piece of available evidence indicates that they are.
     
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  20. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I think you really need to research your paper vs tape measuring difference. The difference in the paper thickness and the tape makes no difference in achieving an accurate measurement. Like i said i tried your paper method vs the tape method and the tape actually measured slightly smaller. The tape is not over lapping itself so the thickness means nothing.

    The racket in the picture you show has a dunlop grip on it. Is this a donnay with a dunlop grip? If so then your measurement is not correct if the racket does not have the factory grip you can't make an accurate measurement.

    Also there is a difference in measuring a new racket that has not been used vs a used racket where the grip has been compressed. Next time you purchase a new racket check the size before you use it, then check it a couple of months later. They usually lose 1/16 of an inch which would be a half size.

    Like i said the donnay rackets do run slightly smaller than some other brands, but some of the other rackets out there run slightly larger also. Many people just go by feel, they don't even relies that if you use an over wrap the size increases a whole size up. So they will say they use a 4 1/2 , but if they install an over wrap they are using a 4 5/8 grip.
     
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  21. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    Ok, look. I measured a brand new X-Dark Red grip, right out of the wrapper. It's not absurd. It's reality. Why in God's name would I lie? I mean, let's be reasonable here. I measured the grip and it's 4-1/4" on the dot. No more, no less.

    Secondly, you're showing some sort of "Dunlop" grip in your pictures. What's up with that? Is that a replacement grip? How about some pictures showing the original grip?

    Not to be argumentative, but you have in no way "proven me wrong". I know the measurement of the frames that I own. They're spot-on. There's absolutely no way you can argue otherwise.

    If your frames are a full size smaller, then I would say that's just plain weird. Maybe you should take it up with Donnay directly? All FOUR of my frames measure accurately to size. I'm sorry yours don't.
     
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  22. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    That's simply not true, and my measurements have already proven that.

    If the sewing tape is 1/64" thicker than the paper (which is about right with the sewing tape that I have), then that will affect the circumference measurement by about 0.1" for a grip that is approximately 4.5". That's almost 1/8" difference, which explains the measurements that you guys have come up with.

    Do you want me to explain the math for you? I can do so, but I guarantee you that the thickness of the tape makes a significant difference (be warned, I've already done the math... again it's simple geometry).

    Geometrically impossible. The thicker material will always give a larger measurement than the thinner material.

    These are from TW, they are quite new, and it makes no difference if it is a Dunlop, Wilson, Donnay, or Prince grip. Every Donnay racquet I've used has exhibited the exact same effect. No matter the grip brand, there is always the exact same distance between my middle finger and the base of my thumb.

    Again, the only problem is that your sewing tape method is fundamentally flawed. There is a reason why sewing tape is never used to measure small circumferences like this. It's way too thick, and is only used for measuring inseams and sleeve lengths and the like.
     
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  23. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    So you don't even have the factory grip on the racket but you think gives an accurate measurement. But you are concerned about the difference of the paper thickness compared to the tape. This makes no sense, when i measure with the sewing tape it does not overlap so the thickness does not mean anything. I don't get how you don't understand this.

    I just measured my wilson racket, with the tape it was right at 4 1/2. But with your paper method it was slightly larger. So there goes your theory right out the window, i can not get the paper method to measure smaller. I have tried it on 2 different rackets and both times it goes in the opposite direction, it measures slightly larger. It is obvious you don't know how to measure correctly with the tape.
     
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  24. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

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    I have five Donnays (X-Red and White, Dial Gold and Silver, X-P Black) right here beside me as I type. White is 4 1/2, the rest are 4 3/8.

    I don't care what they measure... all that matters to me is how they feel. If anything, the grips feel slightly larger then my Heads, and the same as my Wilsons.

    Donnay grip sizes are as they should be. They are not 1/2 size smaller as compared to other popular brands.
     
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  25. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    Haha, this is getting silly. So now you are blaming the perfectly normal Dunlop grip? :roll:

    Ok, I didn't want to, but I pulled the Wilson overgrip off the Platinum (gee, I wonder why most of these demo Donnays have had overgrips on them... could it be that people tend to find that their grip sizes to run small? ;-) ), and guess what? It has a Donnay grip and it measures the same as the other ones: 1/8" smaller than the size it is supposed to be. Do I need to take pictures of that too to prove it to you?

    Seriously, how many of these things do we have to measure before you admit that they run small? I've demo'd 6 in a row like that now, and every single one has been smaller than normal.
     
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  26. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    I don't get how you do not understand simple geometry. Based on the physical laws of our universe, the distance on the INSIDE of the sewing tape around the grip must be smaller than the distance around the outside, and since the sewing tape is obviously not paper thin, the difference will be significant (see below for the mathematical proof of this).

    Don't you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Thin paper is giving a larger measurement than thick sewing tape? That's absolutely impossible, and the only thing it proves is that you are really bad at taking measurements.

    Here is a geometry lesson for you:

    As you know, the circumference of a circle is pi multiplied by the diameter. Of course, grips are octagonal in shape, but some very similar principles apply, and I assure you that any difference is going to be so small as to be negligible in this case. I'll get back to the octagon in a bit…

    So, by simply folding up my sewing tape and measuring it, it measures 25 layers for every 1/2". That means it is 1/50" thick (.02"), while the paper is only .004" thick (500 sheets per 2 inches). Thus, the sewing tape is .016" thicker than the piece of paper, and that means the diameter of an hypothetical circle would be .032" (.016" x 2) greater with the sewing tape than with the paper (because the tape/paper is on both ends of the diameter, since the tape/paper goes all the way around).

    So for a circumference measured at 4 3/8" (4.375) with the paper, the diameter would be 4.375 divided by pi, which equals 1.3926. When you add the .032 to that diameter, you get a diameter of 1.4246. Multiply by pi to get the new circumference, and you get 4.4755", or 1/10" greater in circumference with the sewing tape than with the paper. If you use the distances of a regular octagon – instead of using a circle – the figure ends up being 4.481", so even more than 1/10" greater in perimeter length than with the paper (and I'll spare you the math behind all that for now).

    That's extremely close to 1/8" (0.125") more than our grip's circumference measured by the paper, and that explains why measurements with the sewing tape should be about 1/8" larger than with the paper. As these relatively simple calculations prove, you definitely need to use paper and not sewing tape if you are serious about getting an accurate measurement of your grip. 1/10" or 1/8" may not sound like a lot, but when the entire range of racquet grips goes from 4 1/8" to 4 5/8", it's clearly a significant difference.

    So yet again, all the facts support the notion that Donnay grip sizes are at or very near 1/8" too small. The evidence is simply irrefutable. Anyone who is failing to see the discrepancy and who has admitted measuring with sewing tape has provided the very reason why their grip size measurements are artificially inflated.
     
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  27. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    If i use a 2 rulers to measure the width of my computer screen and one is 1/8 thick and the other ruler 2 inches thick the measurement would be exactly the same. We are measuring distance it does not matter if the tape is slightly thicker.

    If the tape was metal and could not be pulled snug to conform to the handle shape then that would make a difference. The tape can be pulled snug to ensure a accurate measurement. I have tried your paper measurement twice and it not any more accurate than the tape is.

    I measure for a living, so save all the mumbo jumbo. Measuring the circumference of a tennis racket handle is about as easy as it gets. All these figures and trying to make things way more complicated than they are is outright silly.

    If the tape is not pulled snug or if it is pulled really tight this could affect the measurement to a degree. But i use the same tape the same way to measure all the handles that i check. All the different rackets that i have checked almost all of them will vary slightly, but when you start talking thousands of an inch differences then you are in la la land.

    I notice you did not comment about the difference of a brand new racket and handle as opposed to one that has been used and compressed. If you are so worried about accuracy it seems strange that you skip these points.

    I have done this many times, a brand new handle with a synthetic grip will measure a half size larger than it will a month later after it has been compressed from use. This i have proven many times, so you using used rackets without the factory grip is so flawed it is hilarious. But yet you are worried about the difference of the tape thickness vs paper.

    So please use a new racket with the original grip if you want to make statements about accurate measuring techniques. One more time i will point out that some manufacturers handles are slightly larger than the size listed. Donnay is the only company that i have found that their size runs slightly smaller, so they will feel small even though they are close to the proper size when compared to other manufacturers.
     
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  28. TheOneHander

    TheOneHander Professional

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    Of course it does. Different grips have different thicknesses, and depending on how they are wrapped, the measurement of the handle will change.

    I have a question for you two-are you measuring the bare handle, or the handle with replacement grip? I know Diagoras measures with the grip, but these measurements really should be taken (and compared to) a bare handle for the most accurate results.
     
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  29. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    We were talking about measuring AROUND a grip, not a straight-line distance. Way to change the subject, though. :roll:

    As I have already proven, a seemingly small difference in tape thickness will make a significant difference in perimeter measurements. It would be mathematically impossible for it not to do so. I mean, why do you think people use very thin overgrips to make clearly noticeable changes in their grip size? It's very simple geometry, and I have already explained it to you in perfect detail.

    I find it bizarre that you continue to grasp at straws here. You were wrong. Get over it.

    Oh, really? Wow, great argument. I'd love to hear what you do, being a professional "measurer" and all.

    It takes quite a lot of sweat/dirt/compression to actually make a grip size smaller. I have grips here that are two months old, are quite dirty, and their grip sizes have still not compressed one bit.

    Besides, the grips on these Donnay racquets are in fantastic shape, and have obviously not been "worn down" in the slightest. Two slightly used Dunlop grips and one slightly used Donnay grip, and they all measure at or very close to 1/8" smaller than their listed size. What more proof do you need to admit it?

    Again, you are grasping at straws.
     
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  30. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    It's possible, sure, but not one of the 6 Donnay racquets I've demo'd have had unusually thick or thin grips. The grips themselves have all been perfectly normal... the same types that have been used on many different racquets for years, and yet it is only on the Donnay racquets that the grip sizes measure at or very near and entire 1/8" too small (and as I have said, grip sizes have been extremely consistent between all 6 of the Donnays, which simply can't be a coincidence).

    Yeah, we could do that, and I guarantee you that the Donnay handle measurement will be significantly smaller than the Prince, Head, etc ones. The reason we usually just measure around the handle with the grip attached is that the grip sizes (4 1/8" through 4 5/8") are based on that.

    But we could definitely measure just the handles with the pallets and not the grips, if that suits your fancy. I'd like to do that.
     
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  31. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    And by the way, here is a pic of the Platinum 99, which has the Donnay grip, just to debunk the ridiculous notion that the Dunlop grips were somehow magically thinner. As you can see, it's almost right at the 4 3/8" mark on the same piece of paper that I used before, even though the grip size is supposed to be 4 1/2". That makes 3 Donnay racquet pics in a row with the grip sizes being at or very close to an entire 1/8" smaller than they should be.

    [​IMG]

    Need I say more? Do you want me to wrap another brand grip on there? It will yield the same result, I assure you. Or I could take this grip and put it on a Prince or Head racquet, and I guarantee you that they would measure at or very close to 4 1/2". No matter what measurement is taken, it will keep yielding the same result.
     
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  32. Orion

    Orion Semi-Pro

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    For what it's worth, I agree that the Donnay grips run small. I ordered a 4 1/2 that felt like a 3/8 and the 3 - 4 3/8 I ordered feel closer to 4 1/4. Mine were so small that I heat shrinked the handle to build them up. Even with a few overgrips I was getting alot of slip.
     
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  33. Shangri La

    Shangri La Hall of Fame

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    My Gold 99's grip in 4 3/8 is no smaller than any other 4 3/8. In fact it feels slightly LARGER than others after wrapped with the same leather grip.

    For those who feel Donnay grips are smaller - are you using the same grip as on other racquets? It's very possible that Donnay's replacement grip is slightly thinner. And with well used/compressed demo, you will feel it more. If you want to take a measurement, remove then replacement grip first. Otherwise the measurements mean nothing.
     
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  34. tennisjon

    tennisjon Semi-Pro

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    I would say the only thing I noticed from the Donnay grips is that the butt cap is not as pronounced as it is in other racquets. I found my hand slipping off a little on serves. I would build up that part of the grip with an overgrip.
     
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  35. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

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    Ok, I went ahead and did that, just to put this issue to rest. Regardless of whether I use a Dunlop, Donnay, Prince, or Head grip (used or new), the measurements for the Donnays keep yielding the same result: right at or very near 1/8" smaller than their listed size. In other words, they are nowhere near 4 1/2" for the size 4's (or 4 3/8" for the size 3).

    Yeah, this bothered my friend as well. He figures he'll just wrap some sports tape around the butt cap if he ends up pulling the trigger on the Gold 94 (the one he liked the best so far... but we will probably demo some more before making any decisions).
     
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  36. ClairHarmony

    ClairHarmony Rookie

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    How does the shape compare to Yonex? Many say Yonex grips feel small to them, and yet there are some like me who feel they feel extraordinarily FAT...meaning, by far the *roundest* feeling grip shape on the market...and I can't stand that. It's the only grip shape I find intolerable. The top bevels are more or less the same width as the side. It ends up giving a "meaty" fulfilling feel through the middle of your palm, and makes for solid volleys and comfy eastern grip forehands...yet, Yonex rackets are bred for spin. Weird how Yonex frames traditionally are geared toward spin generation, yet have a grip shape that seems so opposed to a natural feel on a western grip forehand. Whereas Head, of course, with their traditional 18x20 player's frames, has uber rectangular grips that feel just awfully unstable and unnatural to me on volleys, yet great for extreme grip forehands, backhands, and naturally whippy wrist action on the serve.

    The Exo3 line was said to run about one size larger in feel compared to previous Prince generation sticks. I can vouge for this, in no way shape or form did their 4-1/8th Prince Exo's feel like the *true* L1's on older Prince rackeets. And yet, TW measured an Exo3 L1 handle for me, and it came out true to spec. My guess is that Prince must have made the handle rounder, more like a Yonex, than their previous (I think *perfect* balance) handle which was pretty much the happy medium for most.

    Do Donnay handles more closely approximate the Prince shape of old?

    I still can't for the life of me understand how people find Yonex handles to feel slightly small to them, when to me, a Yonex L3, feels like an older Prince L4 or even L5 in terms of filling the hand. It's like the ergonomic vertical mouse of the grip shape of the tennis world. It's like it takes all the fun out of tennis, by removing all the nuanced random wrist play I so enjoy. The Yonex shape feels like fencing with mufflers on your hand.

    This said, their RQ-180 absolutely cannot in any way shape or form fit a true 4-1/8th grip on it. It's just not physically possible. Yonex rackets have the fattest bare racket shafts of any brand bar none. Almost like twice the size of a bare Head or Volkl shaft, or any other brands bare shaft. And this is why I can pretty safely say that their 4-1/8th grips on their thicker beamed rackets rackets, or those with the triangular cross section throat, like the RQiS and SRD lines, really do NOT have true 4-1/8th grips. With the RQ lines, it's actually impossible no matter what grip shape you use. With the RQiS and SRD lines there's , a razer thin clearance, and no clearance at all up towards the top. On the RD line, there's smidge of clearance...but still only a smidge...not enough for a manufactuer to feel comfortable placing a true 4-1/8th on there.

    The RD-Ti 70 line was the exception to the rule. The 4-1/8th grip on this was a true 4-1/8th no doubt about it. I can honestly say that the 4-1/8th stock Yonex RD-7 handle felt about 1.5 sizes bigger, maybe even two times bigger, than the RDTi70, L1.

    Per the Vantage owner...it's the dirty little secret of the industry, I believe he once told me. That rackets are manufactured in different factories, and which factory you get may well end up with a different feeling grip size in terms of size...because, well, it is!

    But in this case, I think that it's simply a result of the RD-Ti 70 line being rather thin-beamed for a Yonex player's frame, resembling the lines of your typical Head player's frame than the beefier Yonex signature player's frames. In this case, I think it's simply a case of the RD-Ti 70 being one of the few Yonex frames ever produced that had a thin enough bare shaft to fit a true L1grip.

    In any case, the discrapancy could not be anymore dramatic than with the Ti-70's handle size vs. that of every other Yonex L1 I've ever handled in the store. Love the brand, but can't stand the shape or size...so, I'm kind of a serial "feeler" out this way.

    Anyway, kind off-track, I know...but just throwing it out there, as one shouldn't really take manufacturer specs regarding their grip sizes too literally. As, there is DEFINITELY variation between them, AND from batch to batch, manufacturing date even...according to what I believe I remember being told not that long ago.

    The Donnays do probably run a smidge small...but to me that's a bonus as it allows more 'play room' for customization. You can for instance use your old fatty, luxurious Fairway leather grips now with none of the drawbacks. No more need for the thin-stock, TW leather grip...which while great, simply doesn't offer the shock absoprtion of Fairway leather. This way you get the best of both worlds, bevel definition with tolerable comfort.

    To me, a smaller grip once you get used to it, (I should be using a 4-3/8th by the book) offers so many advantages. The most notable being able to use heavyweight 13 oz sticks like nothing, wielding them like flying samurai swatters. The only thing is, when you go for the toothpick sized grip, the SHAPE means *everything*. There is no room for error. To me, the handle is BY FAR the most important aspect of a racket and how it feels in your hand...and thus your comfort level on all strokes. It's everything. If you cycle through the smaller grip sizes in all brands, chances are you'll find one that allows you to get all the advantages of a small grip...that nuanced, freedom, flicky feel...with just enouch ergo meat to fill the unique contours of YOUR hand for volleys, etc. Everybody's hand shape is gonna be a little different, don't underestimate this. It's no different than top athletes getting custom molded sneaker beds for their shoes, vs. the store model.

    To me, when you can find a grip about two sizes smaller than what you should be using, BUT with the right shape...be prepared to be amazed by the difference it makes in your enjoyment factor, AND your game. To me, this opens up a world of customization opportunities as far as weight goes...no longer do you have to worry about a sluggish feeling racket. All the benefits with none of the drawbacks.

    Incidientally, I have an old Prince Precision Graphite 90 from the 80s, it's a L1 grip...but it's a FULL size smaller in feel at the very least compared to my Prince Graphite Mid L1 handle...there's no comparison. So again, beware that manufacturer's state one thing all the time...but the reality is as often as not, off. Whether by design, or by manufacturer/factory variances, quality control issues...doesn't really matter, because you'll never get a company spokesperson to ever admit it (unless it's off the cuff, with the super secret, sexy kind of agent gal, 99. What a timeless babe).
     
    #36
  37. Readers

    Readers Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    675
    Then they must sent me the wrong one, I got my 4 1/2 Gold 99 from Donnay, it feels somewhere between a 4 1/2 Wilson and a 4 3/8 Wilson, and closer to a 3/8, I changed grip to pro hybrid which is thicker than Donnay's, which made it very close to a Wilson 1/2.

    To be more clear, the pro hybrid may not be thicker when no pressure is applied, but once your grip it, it does not compress nearly as much as the stock Donnay, which IMO is one of the worse grip.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
    #37
  38. Diagoras

    Diagoras New User

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    More pics for anyone interested...

    Donnay size 4 handle (Donnay Gold 99):

    [​IMG]

    Head size 4 handle (Head YouTek Speed Elite):

    [​IMG]

    Measurements from the paper on a tape measure:

    [​IMG]

    The difference for just the handles (minus the grips) for these two particular racquets is very close to 3/32".
     
    #38
  39. jdawg02

    jdawg02 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    100
    The Donnay stock grip on their frames are rice paper thin that is why they feel a tad smaller than other brands. Slap on a Babolat Syntec Replacement grip in white and your problems will be solved :)
     
    #39
  40. pgtennisconnect

    pgtennisconnect New User

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Confirmed smaller..

    It's definitely smaller compared to Prince & Dunlop..

    I've 3 DONNAY X-Blue99's & an X-Red99..all at L4 (41/2) sizes. Compared them against an L4 POG-OS & an L4 Dunlop Aerogel 500.

    Using similar base grips & careful buildups of overgrip layering, the Prince felt largest, followed by Dunlop & lastly Donnay. The Donnay grips really felt 50-70% "thinner" than their reported size.

    Quite a pity cos these great sticks react rather sensitively (power, balance & swingweight) to grip weight+thickness construction; possibly because of added psychological factor from its very thin beam effects
     
    #40
  41. Jackie Treehorn1

    Jackie Treehorn1 New User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Not to change subjects but if you have a Donnay with a grip size that you don't like you can swap the handle pallets on the Donnay racquets to whatever grip size you like.
     
    #41

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