Don't Scots Claim More of Murray than Brits?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by kimbahpnam, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. kimbahpnam

    kimbahpnam Hall of Fame

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    I thought Murray had Scottish roots.....and considering the history b/t Scots and Brits (best seen in 100% historically accurate Braveheart lol), isn't there a little irony here? :)
     
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  2. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    Not this again :rolleyes:
     
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  3. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Murray is British if he wins:)
     
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  4. leonidas1982

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    All Scots are British. Not all Brits are Scots. Britain is a sum of England, Scotland, and Wales.
     
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  5. Syfo-Dias

    Syfo-Dias Semi-Pro

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    Scotland is part of Great Brittain, so it's accurate to call Andy Murray British. What Scottish people don't like is when you call them English.
     
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  6. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    What is OP talking about. Scots are Brits too.
     
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  7. ChanceEncounter

    ChanceEncounter Professional

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    Scots are Brits.

    It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Considering Scotland is obviously not "Northern Ireland," where else do you think they fall?
     
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  8. Clydey2times

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    Scottish roots? We're not talking about a guy who has Scottish grandparents here. He is Scottish. Scotland is part of Great Britain, however. That makes him both Scottish and British.

    You're making the same mistake that most people never fail to make. 9% of foreigners seem to think that England and Britain are the same thing.
     
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  9. sh@de

    sh@de Hall of Fame

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    Scot = Brit, Brit not always = Scot. Murray = Scot, therefore Murray = Brit.
     
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  10. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    As others have already stated, the events portrayed in braveheart related to England and Scotland. It happened hundreds of years before the concept of Britian even arose.
     
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  11. Dutch-Guy

    Dutch-Guy Legend

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    Why does Scotland have his own football team that rep. it at the European Football Championship and World Cup?
    I think Scots feel more Scots than Brits.
     
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  12. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
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  13. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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  14. vtmike

    vtmike Banned

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  15. miyagi

    miyagi Professional

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    Think the OP doesnt understand the difference between a Scot, a Brit and an English man
     
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  16. effervescence

    effervescence Rookie

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  17. Badger

    Badger Semi-Pro

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  18. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    Ok that is a nice picture, but I have to ask why is Wales in the same circle as England?
    Also aren't Isle of Man and Channel Islands part of UK?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
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  19. janipyt05

    janipyt05 Professional

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    Well well his queen is my queen so therefore scotland, wales and britian case closed, he can be and is rightly scotish but his queen is the same
     
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  20. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Because it has the same legal system.
     
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  21. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    OK I see. Thanks.
     
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  22. Badger

    Badger Semi-Pro

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    Em I think that it might be because of the historical idea that Wales is more loyal to Britain and the crown than th Scots were. I think you can still see this in that the Welsh soccer teams play in the same league as the British whereas the Scots have their own league. Not sure though.


    Yeah think you're right with Isle of Man and Channel Islands.
     
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  23. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    ''Whales'' and ''England'' yeah, same laws.
    Also, though differentiated culturally....that guy Prince Charles, the son of the Queen of England and also the man who was married to Princess Diana is known as the Prince of Wales. England and Wales are connected like that, I guess.

    As a red-blooded American man, I'm alsmost embarrassed I knew that.

    Anyway, the Prince of Whales is a boat on the Pacific Coast of British Columbia.

    ''I'm On A Boat''
    [just wanted to sing that for a second] Now I feel American again.

    Go Murray! I'm for Murray over Roddick .... and Murray to challenge Federer in the final.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
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  24. dincuss

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  25. gj011

    gj011 Banned

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    Sorry for misspelling it originally. I fixed it already.
     
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  26. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    The Channel Islands are not part of the UK or the EU. Neither is Man.
     
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  27. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Hey man, no big. I liked it....it made me think of the Pacific coast.

    EDIT:
    Back to the point of the OP, most of us Americans confuse The UK, England, Brits, Scots, Welshmen, Glaswegians, Edinburghers, Mancunians....etc. We've got a decent feel for Irishmen, though, at least [thanks to the millions of them over here, U2, the fact that they've been in the news a lot, the whole Catholic/Protestant tensions and the IRA/Sinn Fein stuff.

    Well, anyway, I loved Braveheart, and I like how Andy Murray plays tennis.....Go Murray!
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
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  28. markmurray

    markmurray New User

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    I'm English and I'm British, in no particular order. Andy Murray is Scottish and he is British. It is my hunch that Andy Murray would attribute more emphasis to his "Scottishness" than his "Bristishness". I think this rings true for most Scots and at least part of the reason is the common mistake of equating English with British. I would be annoyed if I was called Scottish, it's precisely as wrong as calling Andy Murray English.
     
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  29. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Murray is a quarter English, though. A lot of his family comes from Northern England, as well.

    So it wouldn't be wrong to call him of mixed Scottish and English heritage...

    so basically, British describes him best, although if you want to nit-pick, he is a Scot mostly.
     
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  30. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    ... and what about Rockall ? ;)
     
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  31. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    This whole thing is reminding me about Long Island looking to secede from the State of New York. LOL!

    I think on the Daily Show, Sam Bee did a funny piece on it, complete with 3 bozos from the Island, and divergent views from local politicians. Pretty funny.

    Anyway...

    C'monn Murray! ''They can take away ourr lahnd. But they can't.... Take awayyy.... Ourr Frrreedommmm!''
     
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  32. Lotto

    Lotto Professional

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  33. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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  34. helloworld

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    Scotland is part of Great Britain, just like Hawaii is part of the United States. Is Hawaiian citizen american?
     
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  35. BigJock

    BigJock New User

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  36. Badger

    Badger Semi-Pro

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  37. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, Hawaiians are American citizens just like Alaskans, New Yorkers and Californians.

    It's Louisiana that's a little off. Kidding.

    I don't think we have anything like that here. Maybe Puerto Rico? They get to vote...they are a territory, not a state. Guam?
     
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  38. Clydey2times

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    One grandparent is English. That isn't a quarter.

    The point is that he is both Scottish and British, no matter how you slice it.
     
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  39. SempreSami

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    The level of stupidity reeking from the title of this topic, my word.
     
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  40. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    this maybe a stupid question but..what is england geographically?

    Also ..scots are a different nation than english right?
    Excuse my ignorance,but before Murray became known in the world of tennis,I didn't even know there was a difference between england and britain.
     
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  41. angharad

    angharad Semi-Pro

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    It's similar to Spain, actually. The Catalonian region of Spain (Barcelona/Balearic Islands/etc) as a whole feels quite separate from the rest of Spain. There are many people who consider themselves Catalonian before Spanish.


    Yes, that is a quarter. If one grandparent is English, then one parent is half-English, and Murray himself is one-quarter English. Assuming the grandparent is entirely English, or course.
     
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  42. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

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    That's not really how it works. You have to take into account where they were born, not just parentage. Both his parents were born in Scotland. One had two Scottish parents, while one had one Scottish parents and one English parent. It's a hell of a leap to call someone a quarter English if they were born in Scotland, to Scottish parents (both born in Scotland), with 3 Scottish grandparents.
     
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  43. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    This is getting interesting now :)

    roughly 2/3rds of the bottom end of Britain is England.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England

    Re the 2nd question in bold - the answer is quite contentious. It all depends on your defintion of 'nation'. I think in truly technical terms, neither England or Scotland are sovereign states - they are subcomponents of the nation that is the UK. For example Andy Murray and Tim Henman both have UK passports but Murray is Scottish and Henman English. Their Head of State is Queen Elizabeth and their Head of Government is Gordon Brown - although Scotland does have its own parliament with some devolved powers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
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  44. mzzmuaa

    mzzmuaa Semi-Pro

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    Everyone knows that he's British and Scottish, but the papers love screwing with language.
    The Scotts will call him Scottish if he wins and the English will call him British. When he loses, the Scotts will probably still call him Scottish, but the Brits will call him Scottish.

    If murray never makes it, then England should invade Switzerland to stop their nuclear programs and civilize those brutes into UKness.
     
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  45. angharad

    angharad Semi-Pro

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    If you're considering heritage, as you do in genealogy, than Murray's one-quarter English. He's obviously Scottish, but he has English ancestry. It's not that difficult to comprehend.
     
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  46. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

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    Like I said, it's not just about parentage. You also have to consider where he and his family were born. If we simply went by ancestry, we'd all be African.
     
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  47. maximo

    maximo Banned

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    Are you British Clydey?
     
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  48. angharad

    angharad Semi-Pro

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    So, if my parents are both from Norway but they settle in Japan before I'm born, that makes me Japanese? Or am I Norwegian by heritage, Japanese by birth? :confused:

    I'm really interested, I haven't heard this take on it before.
     
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  49. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

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    Well, that's ultimately your own choice. The point is that where you are born counts for a lot. Nationality is a complicated subject. Take this as an example. You have a man born to Scottish parents. Going back 400 years, his entire ancestry is Scottish. He goes over to America, takes a citizenship test and a piece of paper says that he's American. He now lives in America and has kids, who in turn have kids. As far as his grandchildren are concerned, he might as well never have been Scottish in the first place.

    That shows you how fickle nationality is. Like I said, if we went solely by heritage, we would ALL be African.
     
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  50. Clydey2times

    Clydey2times Hall of Fame

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    Yes. I'm both Scottish and British. If I'm honest, though, I am fiercely Scottish. While I'll happily support Brits, I always have and always will describe myself as Scottish.
     
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