Doping in Tennis in Everywhere - Noah

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheCanadian, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. TheCanadian

    TheCanadian Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    487
    #1
  2. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Any proof of these accusations, Monsieur Noah?
     
    #2
  3. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686
    Well,duh. The testing in tennis is a joke so there is going to be widespread doping because the players know they can get away with it.
     
    #3
  4. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    He didn't accuse anyone.
     
    #4
  5. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,037
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    It's not just tennis. The testing everywhere (except for the Olympics) is a joke. Top PED guys say that they're always at least 2-3 years ahead of testing procedures.

    Nothing will change unless all sports start requiring blood tests, which likely won't happen for a variety of reasons.
     
    #5
  6. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,778
    Do I have to read the article or can I conclude that this is one more opinionated guy without any proof?
     
    #6
  7. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,356
    Location:
    Between the baseline and netcord.
    I've talked to a former top 10 ATP pro about it and he has told me that it's all over the tour.
     
    #7
  8. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    Yeah Slam champion Noah with multiple connections doesn't have a clue, unlike you. Please give evidence of how the players are clean? In sports these days it's guilty until proven innocent.
     
    #8
  9. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    6,438
    Location:
    UK
    So are we suppost to think noah was clean just because he points the finger of blame without proof? If anyone was doping it was him.
     
    #9
  10. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,627
    Maybe he did dope. Maybe It takes one to know one.


    Maybe he knows one or two...


    As we know with Marion Jones and Lance Armstrong "Strict Testing" and "Never failing a test" mean absolutely nothing.
     
    #10
  11. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,255
    Makes sense why certain someone didn't bother defending the title.
     
    #11
  12. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    WADA is now suggesting that statue of limitations should increase and that they be allowed to keep samples for longer so that when the testing catches up with the older PED technology, the older samples can get tested.
     
    #12
  13. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    It should always be innocent until proven guilty. We are not on the planet Marinus, you know.
     
    #13
  14. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Marion Jones admitted that she had taken drugs and committed perjury. I've already discussed the Lance Armstrong case at length in the Odds and Ends section, and all the evidence against Armstrong is circumstantial and based on the testimonies of plea bargained cyclists and people with axes to grind. There's a reason as to why this case was thrown out of court after the federal investigation.
     
    #14
  15. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,865
    My favorite story was Agassi skipping out on a test saying he got a call that his kid was kidnapped and he had to leave. lol

    Any sport with big money on the line will have doping. It's called human nature. Barry Bonds never failed a test as head grew twice in size, lol.
     
    #15
  16. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,741
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    I dunno. There's so much smoke around Armstrong now that you can't help but feel there's probably a fire somewhere!

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/12/us/armstrong-doping-masseuse/index.html
     
    #16
  17. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    6,571
    Location:
    Right behind you
    #17
  18. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,741
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Did he? In that case, I don't see what is there left to argue! :cool:
     
    #18
  19. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,118
    Agreed. We are not in **** Germany or Stalinist Soviet Union
     
    #19
  20. If Lance Armstrong can pass a drugs test simply by drinking a litre of saline water to mask the drugs then it has to be more widespread than we think!!
     
    #20
  21. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    887
    For a while I didn't think that ATP players doped because I didn't think EPO would help tennis players much. But after reading more about how EPO can greatly help keep a runner or biker's stamina up at a high level over a two week event and seeing players nowadays play strenuous 4-5 hr matches without much fall off, it wouldn't surprise me to find that many of the top players use EPO. It is easy to administer and to easy to hide. There is so much money at the top of the sport and players only have a short span of years to be at the top. It would be a great temptation. With the slow down of the courts and better equipment, ATP tennis has become an endurance sport more like biking. Djoker rapid improvement by going on a "gluten-free" diet is a little ridiculous in my opinion. EPO use could be quite prevalent nowadays.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
    #21
  22. tennisfan2010

    tennisfan2010 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    239
    I think many players use PED or recreational drugs but it is covered up to protect the sport.
     
    #22
  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37,323
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Do any of you guys even bother to PLAY tennis?
    It's tiring, you need to recover quickly, and you're constantly getting nagging injuries. If it helps your actual performance, all the better. But recovery is the first and most important reason.
    Just like any competitive sport. At least since 1962, when I played basketball for junior high.
     
    #23
  24. Wuppy

    Wuppy Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    854
    Location:
    SoCal
    There's rampant doping in ALL professional sports. Always has been, always will be. When there's that much money and fame on the line, you betcha there will be.

    There are only those who get caught and those who don't.
     
    #24
  25. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Armstrong said he never gained an unfair advantage. For some people, rather than this being Armstrong saying he's innocent, it's instead Armstrong saying that he took PEDs, but so was everyone else and therefore didn't think he had done anything wrong.

    This is NOT proof of any guilt.
     
    #25
  26. oy vey

    oy vey Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    711
    I also believe most are using and the ATP will protect them.
     
    #26
  27. ClairHarmony

    ClairHarmony Rookie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    102
    It's redundant, but knowing Armstrong's type, ENTP; for what it's worth, this is just what it is as far as I "know." This is their tell-tale pattern, of how an uncurbed ENTP, the path they go down...I too have written about it at length in a bball board. I've seen this pattern play out on a smaller scale, what feels like a thousand times over, on a daily basis, I've seen it everywhere for like a decade. It just is what it is.

    There's a "signature," if you will, to how certain types go off. And there's a reason why juries should be selected with a balanced eye toward type. It may be in general, but the pattern almost certainly still remains. Certain branches of types, simply tend to hold/require different standards of "proof." Again, it just is what it is.

    My best friend was an ENTP, many friends ENTP's, nothing against ENTP's, when many other friends of other types have...but a *very* common trait amongst ENTP's who haven't been "curbed." I'm just saying, I've seen it first hand, you have to start young with them, you have to hold their innate "itch" if you will to logically and systematically manipluate the "rules of the game" if you will, accountable, you have to keep that leash on them when young, can't let them get away with, have to teach them, *need to let them know,* that's the bottom-line...otherwise, as adults. Parents who understand this, can make a world of difference in how their kids turn out. After all, to make it into a picture in Time magazine holding a beak ain't so bad right? Right, but behind closed doors...logically and systematically working the arbitrary "rules," whatever they maybe, to their end, the tendency it's still there. It's always going to be there, underneath that surface. It just is what it is, but that darn guy learned to *keep it in check,* not just knows right from wrong, but holds to it most of the time, won't allow himself to veer to far-off the deep end.

    I've seen "Armstrong" types over and over, and over again. The chain reaction of those affected, and how they get there. He may not see it as wrong, but he's *most certainly aware.* It is what it is. ENTP's I'm telling you, they are more or less the most "talented" when it comes to being able to pull off a lie without a hitch. It just is what it is. They are the most capable in this way, innately. The best at, the best max potential. I'm saying this as objectively as can be, meaning w/out attention to whether or not that trait is viewed in a negative light. It's just a trait, like any other trait, it is what it is. Heck, sometimes you need to lie...but this *isn't* one of them.

    ENTP's are the master of one-upmanship. Again, it is what it is. Does anything in Armstrong's past, all of it points to one, who when having the upper hand financially will do whatever he can to logically and systematically bury you, to discredit you as merely bitter this that, ax to grind, blah, blah, blah...blah, thousands upon thousands then, with axes to grind, I've seen. And yet the fact is, the many ants and wills that I've seen squashed by this kind of behavior through the years. Again, it just is what it is.

    It'd take an uncurbed ENTP verring off the deep end, to not want to allow Greg Lamond any of that sun. A "healthy" in the soul ENTP don't need to do that. Fed and Sampras don't need to do that, know what I mean? There's just no need to, *if* you're a reasonably good person.

    I've seen Armstrong's type so vividly in my mind, can you not see patterns play out familiarly between someone like say Evan Tanner and me, Penn and Agassi, what have you? They're there. It is what it is. The more in tune you are with these behavior patterns, the ideosyncrasies, the finesse in it all, the better your chances of intercepting, preventing. To me, the BEST thing you can do, is not wish anyone else to hell. They *need* to know. It is what it is. To care about Lance Armstrong, is to not let him just get away with it anymore. Ax to grind, perhaps, but he's had no problems grinding that ax extra sharp himself through the years. I've seen it, in the eyes, no problem going after....

    It may just be circumstantial to you, but how much circumstantial do you need to see that Muster's a worthier hound dog to defend to the death than he. If you can't detect the same patterns of play at a play, from a type stand point, in what I wrote on Lakersground, I don't know what to say. There are many types of "facts" in life, many types among us, some more sensitive than others, others more "factual." The more balanced you get in type, the easier it is to see the value in *all* types and traits, to not be missled, to make that picture clear. It takes more than one type of "scan" line to present a clearer picture...again, it just is what it is. It's not an ax to grind so much as, people just need to know. I've seen far too many ENTP's who've not been curbed, let not ants stand in their way...to get where they want. I firmly believe you can only be judged according to scale, an INFJ's type tendencies when veering off that scale, however, it just is what it is. An ENTP's on average gonna do more damage, on a larger scale, when "off." When allowing themselves too. It just is what it is.

    You see that some so and so org has a lust for witch hunting Armstrong? Yeah, sure, I have *no problem* buying that. I believe it whole-heartedly, *to a degree.* It goes both ways. It just is what it is. To get in that position, to do that, I just think it's far more likely the way society is structured today; for an ENTP to be able to "maneuver" themselves if you will, into that position. Again, it just is what it is, when you try to look at it objectively, with respect to all types. That's just how the dice is going to end up rolling more often than not. Which is again, why I think all the lovely-la-di-da of traditional "typing," is only just so useful. When thing is going great in our lives, everyone's great for the most part. You need to know the *worst-case scenariors* for our types, you *need* to know how we go off when "wrong," and the damage that can cause, *and* then decide whether you're ok with that. It's up to you. People is always going to end up getting hurt in life. Ain't no politician can speak for us all, they almost always gonna seem to come up short in the end, no matter what they "promise..." why? Because, it's not just not easy, it's downright *impossible.* You can't please them all, all you can do is learn to respect...or *lose respect,* for someone's true motives.

    It's A LOT easier to try and "correct" and "reach" someone like you, when there's obviously much of a soul still at play; than, it is Armstrong, who I have a line for that, but whatever, is just is what it is, in my opinion. He don't really, necessarily want to be reached just yet. It is what it is.

    On a far "worser" scale, but I saw the one about the chemist or whatever, who "buried" her former husband "alive" in a vat of hydrochloric acid, a barrel, and stowed him away in public storage. On trial, one juror gives her the "thumbs up," as if to say, she said, "You did a good job..." ouch, and that's what I mean. That's the problem, of not being aware of types. It may be just circumstantial to you, but at some point, you have to just ask yourself the odds...realistically evaluate, *what are the odds.* I would bet almost certainly, that this lady was an ENTP...best, most capable, liars around when called upon to do so, they have that kind of "potential." But to me, this time, not in a good way, obviously. It just is what it is, bcs. that smokescreen she was so ridicuosly affluent at putting on for the jurors...beyond that, what was there? I mean, come on, think logically, emotionally, spiritually, whatever you want to call it...*why stow your former dud in a barrel of hcl, and close that tub, rub a dub, dub, knock-knock, you-hoo, remember me, um, know what I mean? I mean, yeah, come on, why...why have an employee rent the Uhaul, I mean, yeah, come on, hello, know what I mean, knock-knock, pinging you from the inside, but no body's listening no more...it just is what it is. Some people just ain't worth bother defending. Yeah, there's always that remote possibility...but even so, Armstrong's still not *that* worthy of to me. I don't think, he'd care that much about you, if he had that chance, and you got in his way, knowing what I've seen and experienced...it wouldn't be that much, for him to, ta-tah, flick, out of my way, flea...by the breezeway. Again, it just is what it is. That's in the wrong-way ENTP, who don't want to be corrected, and when every single fact rings true, can't acknowledge and simply "ignores" when able to...again, it just is what it is. Some the vilest, most meanest, "ugly" on the outside men I've met, are still able to acknowledge, there is that residual...that pinging awareness, deep down...it ain't that, way with Armstrong, just my opinion. Can't reach 'em all, some don't want to know, or know, but don't really care. Can't be bothered to.
     
    #27
  28. ClairHarmony

    ClairHarmony Rookie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    102
    Was Canseco (ESTP for what it's worth, not that it should matter when it comes to these kinds of things, ultimately)...was he full of crip too? You think it's soo easy to have an ax to grind? Well, it's not. It *kills you.* And that's the bottom-line. It's *NOT* worth it, to the VAST majority of us. If you're gonna go through with that, you better feel it *deep down* inside like you need to, or you're not going to.... It's not that simple. It's a saga, and one Armstrong brought on just as much as himself. Not saying, whatever orgie out to get him ain't all that a pocketful of chips too...but two wrongs never made no ah right, ooh ah, just a little bit...fun times, fun times, soooooo long ago...but fun times, nonetheless. Were I to die tomorrow though? Yeah, I think I couldl ive with it. Don't have much else going for me though.

    In regards to Virignia Tech, look up JoeNewburry or something or other, I believe was his name. One of the ladies behind, she wouldn't even recognize me, but looking back I realized, Crazy, Crazy, all night long, one song, Crazzy, crazzzy...uggh, I don't really consider her a hero per say, not a bad person, but also definitely not a hero. It is what it is. That's how administrators can do, that's just how it goes, yo...it's not like I don't know how it feels, how Armstrong might feel, bcs. I do...but I'd rather sympathize with the truth, not clingings of clingings to a rule, here and there, when it suits. When it comes to making anchors out of loopholes, a bad way ENTP is most prone to, when ignoring humanity in favor of the rules...they *can* be prone to, IF you let them. That's why you have to as a parent STOP them, when you still can, when them brain's is still molding, forming, it just is what it is. It WORKS, I've seen it...and yeah, sometimes it doesn't always work, but oh well, hey, that's life, what can you, but still don't change the "fact" that you should probably begin to see these things, grasp these things, catch these partterns of play before it's too late. It just is what it is. Yoiu would maybe never know I'm an INFP because I'm no longer just naive, la-di-da, take one, just for the heck of it...that's just stupid. You've gotta be smarter than that, "overcome" your type, not only so it doesn't happen to you, but others too. Becs. that Joe dud, ain't me...ain't my "type" at all, but I can just tell...his "spirit" be utterly decimated and squahsed by "this" too...but again, ain't no medals for that. Can you believe that? I actually thought they was contacting me to give me a medal, for being *right.* Not pretty, but for sure I was *right* and for sure with all the best, right intentions, I thought I'd "earned" that, to be "right" on such a thing, but oh well...they'd rather pretend that I'm just dumb, play dumb, and play with the rules, the system, and a grade, then ignore, let happen, and it is what it is. Another "valuable" life lost, oh well. Who had more, who had nothing virtually, and lost everything. Thank you very much.

    Ax to grind? It don't have to be perceived that way. If ever, regardless of type, faced with/feeling the same...well, there you go, there it is, just enough free, always unedited (except to "dumb down" occasionally, when necessary, when could say with a needle, should I choose to, people sometimes need that needle, don't let the random rambling fool u), fly of the pants, unscripted, there it is, "real" as can be. Wala, lada....
     
    #28
  29. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    Lendl certainly thought so.
     
    #29
  30. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,174
    The earliest public rumors of PEDs I can remember were about Leconte when he got to the French Open final.
     
    #30
  31. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,075
    Sorry Mustard, but what kind of logic is this?
    You're cutting a hair in four really...
     
    #31
  32. nereis

    nereis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    545
    'Unfair advantage' can be read many ways, and it is inappropriate to conclude admission of guilt on one of the readings.
     
    #32
  33. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,075
    well, we live in an era where everyone likes to twist words
    politicians, economists, lawyers, and even sport figures...
    People are not stupid and proof or not, we all know what Armstrong did and what's happening on the atp tour
    Pro Sport --> Huge financial interests (sponsors, bets,mafia) --> doping
     
    #33
  34. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,675
    Judging by the pitiful attempts at defending Lance here, I can safely say that OJ didn't do it either!
     
    #34
  35. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    Ok, got it - It's what it is!
     
    #35
  36. LaneMyer

    LaneMyer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    163
    it would be pretty ignorant to think any sport is clean these days. Too much money on the line for players not to attempt to gain an edge somewhere. Guilty until proven innocent isn't that outlandish. Unfair, but it is what it is. Tennis's schedule even more than baseball would motivate me for sure especially when talking about non-anabolic life/health threatening PEDs. The NHL has the biggest joke of a testing policy. There is actually a "Theraputic Use" exemption in their CBA that enables the use of certain PEDs if a doctor deems them necessary. 1 positive PED test in 8 years in the NHL in a sport where players are getting hit at 30mph. Yeah oh.
     
    #36
  37. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686


    Same thing can be said for Count *******.
     
    #37
  38. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    14,954
    Yes, it is hard to believe there are still people alive with functioning brains who think Armstrong could possibly be innocent. There is enough evidence to fill a landfill.
     
    #38
  39. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,872
    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    If an individual with very low body fat's jawline and facial features repeatedly fluctuate back and forth between masculine and softer/more-effeminate is that a symptom of fluctuating levels of testosterone?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
    #39
  40. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    For goodness sake. The evidence is circumstantial and based on the testimonies of plea bargained cyclists and people with axes to grind. That should never be enough for a guilty verdict. The federal investigation collapsed for a reason.
     
    #40
  41. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,952
    As if Armstrong doesn't have an axe to grind?

    The federal investigation collapsed because of political and legal reasons.

    The USADA evidence was not challenged by Armstrong and so it stands unrefuted.

    Armstrong has spent millions on lawyers suing people so these investigations would be stymied, so tiredness is not the reason he did not challenge the evidence.
     
    #41
  42. diadorakuerten

    diadorakuerten Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    For those who know little about the Lance Armstrong case I recommend they just shut up. The UCI and Nike have covered up positive tests by Lance Armstrong. When there is so much at stake it is everyone's interest to cover up the champion being caught in a scandal. Carl Lewis also tested positive before the Seoul Olympics and guess who got caught? Not Carl Lewis! And he continued to win countless gold medals after that.

    A lot of people are delusional and for some reason that eludes me, want to believe their champions are clean even if there is a mountain of evidence against them.

    Please watch this documentary on Lance Armstrong and you'll have a better understanding of the character he is and how the whole thing was covered up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q03sc8Aoyk0

    Why is it that in tennis only lower ranked players get caught doping? You don't think the ATP will cover it up if Nadal, Fed or Djokovic test positive? Whose interests are they serving? Their own. It's in the ATP's interest to cover up any misdeeds from their top players.

    It's probably super easy to not get caught. Most athletes never get caught even if they have been doping their whole lives. Last case was Christian Hesch, a elite runner, who has probably been doping his whole life (he admitted doping for only 2 years -> lies) and never failed a doping test because he competed in races where they don't test. He was caught by one of his teammates who found a vial of EPO in his jacket and ratted him out.

    If tennis players use EPO, it would be very easy to microdose and not get caught when tested. What would be more difficult would be traveling with the EPO vials at all times because tennis players are not sedentary.

    I bet there is also doping in golf. They can take adherol to have better focus.
     
    #42
  43. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,224
    Location:
    NorCal
    typical rabble if you cant beat them then accuse them of drug use,,,noah--thumbs down.
     
    #43
  44. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,408
    He got a backdated prescription for a substance he was supposed to let the authorities know about ahead of time. That's only one instance, but it is undeniable. He violated the established procedure and somehow got off scot-free. That in and of itself is also not proof that he formed his whole career around doping, but I think it's very likely, given the prevalence of doping in the sport.

    Now, I don't think players should be punished unless there's cold, hard evidence, but as a spectator, I'm well aware that most of the top professionals in nearly any sport are doping.
     
    #44
  45. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    The only thing I find hilarious is people who believe doping is a minority thing. The vast majority of elite athletes in ALL sports that require any kind of extreme physical strength, speed, or endurance dope. The poster who got it right is the one who said there are only two groups, the ones who are caught and the ones who arent. I feel sorry for the ones who are caught, especialy the champions who are vilified for kicking everyone elses butt doing what the rest were also doing (eg- Marion Jones and as much a ***** as he is Lance Armstrong).
     
    #45
  46. RF_fan

    RF_fan Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    417
    Just because all cyclists took PED's does not mean all of them would get the same performance boost. If you have more money to buy the best drugs and hire the best doctors, then you will "improve" more.
     
    #46
  47. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    LOL are you really so naive to not believe the entire Tour de France crew of the last 10 years (atleast) was doped up to the eyeballs. Every star cyclist except Lance faled a drug test at some point, various teams were found overflowed with human growth hormone in their vans, so much they could barely fit it in. I doubt there is a single rider even in the Tour de France, including the poorest and last place finishers, who wasnt heavily doped. It is probably a requirement by every team to be part of their squad.

    Good for Lance though. A vastly overrated one trick pony who all but the most delusional Americans realize is nowhere near the greatest cyclist of all time drugs or no drugs (lol at the latter not just for him but any elite cyclist in recent memory)
    but he did win those 7 titles doing what all the others were doing so clearly cemented himself the top cyclist of his own era, although there appears to have been a vendetta to cover his ass unlike he others but that is a whole other topic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2012
    #47
  48. RF_fan

    RF_fan Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    417
    You're absolutely right about Carl Lewis.
    When Basso, Ullrich, and other top cyclists were caught after 2005 TDF (and they finished #2, and #3 behind Lance) it was obvious Lance could not win if he was clean as doping gives any cyclist a huge advantage. So here's the proof, no positive test is needed. Another proof: all his accusers could not have fooled the investigators.
     
    #48
  49. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    14,954
    Mustard I generally think you are a fair poster but on this issue you are out to lunch I am sorry.

    It does not matter that most of the evidence is circumstantial, there is so much of it that there really is no doubt at all that Lance is guilty. No innocent person would stop fighting and let his medals be stripped away from him. He knew that if he went further with the whole case, he would be exposed publicly and ruined. At least this way some of his naive fans can go on thinking the world of him and his Livestrong Foundation and the good he has done for cancer can remain unharmed. How could any sane half intelligent person believe Armstrong is not guilty?

    The next logical thing to take from this whole case is that if this sort of thing could go on in cycling, it most definitely goes on in tennis and every other sport as well. People who think doping is not a reality in pro sports are in denial.
     
    #49
  50. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    14,954
    LOL.



    Good post.
     
    #50

Share This Page