Doubles: can receiving partner have his foot in receiver's service box?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by yemenmocha, Aug 28, 2010.

  1. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    it is more bush league to be distracted by where your opponent is standing.

     
    #51
  2. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    I don't stand in the service box but sometimes on the second service I will move over to the corner of the box and rock back and forth just a little. I have won a few points doing this but I play 3.5.
    One time I was rewarded with a 90 mph fast ball at my head. I asked the player if he did this on purpose and he said no. Later in the locker room he admitted to trying to hit me. I did not move into the box anymore on him but I made sure I did a beat down on him every time I played him.
     
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  3. Taxvictim

    Taxvictim Semi-Pro

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    And don't even try to bring up foot faults, no matter how blatant.
     
    #53
  4. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    blakesq, anyone can get distracted when they aren't seeing something for the first time.

    Would you agree, you don't see a receiver's partner in the service box on a regular basis? I hope you would concede it isn't something often see in doubles. If the guy wants to stand there fine, it doesn't take long to block him out and move on. Will I step back from the service line and delay my serve for a second or two? Most likely yes.

    It isn't bush league for me or anyone to be distracted by seeing something for the first time, especially a receiver's partner standing in the service box. It's just different.

    Have you ever met some for the first time and put out your right hand to shake the person's hand and then notice the person doesn't have a right hand since you were looking at their face when being introduced by a friend? This happened to me a work last year. I didn't notice the guy's right arm had been mauled in some manner. I quickly withdrew my right hand as he extended is left hand and shook his left hand with my left hand. It was simply something I wasn't used to seeing, and I quickly adjusted.

    Serving to a service box with the receiver's partner standing in the box is an appropriate comparison. It's not often encountered. Do I think it's Bush League? Yes. The only reason it is being done is to get in the server's head. If that's how you play, go for it. I had no problem blocking out the two guys who did this to me, and I nailed both of them with my first serves. I didn't feel good about it, but again if people want to play games, any descent 4.0 is going to nail them.
     
    #54
  5. Bedrock

    Bedrock Semi-Pro

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    Any formation is good.
    I even can stay behide of my receiving partner.
     
    #55
  6. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    OK i stand corrected. It is not bush league to get distracted if you see someone standing in the service box for the first time. However, it is bush league to complain or call for a hindrance if someone is standing in the service box.

     
    #56
  7. RogerRacket111

    RogerRacket111 Semi-Pro

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    Its like people who step up close to the line. If someone does that to me I'm clocking them by hitting a hard serve, I don't care if I double fault.
     
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  8. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    blakesq,

    please tell me how many times you have seen a 4.0 and higher men's double team attempt this? Have you ever seen a pro do this? Have you ever seen anyone other than a 3.5 do this?

    The next time you see it, please get me some video. I'd love to see the guy at in the box being nailed, because that is what is going to happen.

    I admitted I was wrong. Do you need me to quote that for you?

    So in your opinion, it's bush league because, in 30+ years of playing tennis I've never seen this, I found it irritating at first? I was wrong. I didn't know the rule. I stand corrected.

    Granted you are completely right. You can stand anywhere you want.
    It's bush league. It's legal. Go for it pal. Please tell me how it works out for you.
     
    #58
  9. Bedrock

    Bedrock Semi-Pro

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    People usually trick with formation for fun. I do like to use some weird formation, if my partner agrees.
    I knew a guy who got a ban for serving underhand :) It was too tricky for opponents to rash to the net after such serve. Of course it was some local league. In real life such serve would be accepted as a gift from a very generous man. ;)
     
    #59
  10. Bedrock

    Bedrock Semi-Pro

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    It is a very dangerous move :twisted:
     
    #60
  11. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    I am a 4.0 player. I do it once or twice a year, usually if our opponents has a monster serve, and nothing else seems to be working. I have seen varsity high school players do this, at a tournament a few years ago. Thanks for your admission of being wrong, I am often wrong, and it takes a lot of maturity, imho, to admit when one is wrong. As for it "working out for me", it usually doesn't seem to affect play one way or another. However, one thing that does seem to work more often is to crowd the server, e.g., play way up when returning serve (between the base line and service line, for example), and have your partner crowd, but not stand in, the server's box. for some reason that seems to put pressure on SOME servers.

     
    #61
  12. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    G4, why didn't you feel good about it? If someone is standing in the server's box, I would actually feel pretty good if I was able to claim the point if I hit him. I even feel good about it, if i hit a wild serve, and it hits the non-receiving partner on the foot when he is standing in a normal position, i will take that point too. I guess I just don't think its bush league to play according to the rules.

     
    #62
  13. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    blakesq,

    Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure that you noticed, but I admitted I was wrong a week ago. ;) I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I didn't know the rules and even worse, I had never read the rules until I downloaded the PDF file few weeks ago after a guy told me I couldn't use a towel between points. Then I saw this thread. A few weeks ago friend of mine and I were talking about I formations, and we didn't know where the server's partner can stand. He's a 4.5, I'm a self-rated 3.5, who played 4.0 for ten years. I self-rated after two back surgeries and expect a bump at the end of the year. So we have two guys who been playing tennis for 30+ years each, and we didn't know the rules.

    The towel guy's comment got me thinking. Rhetorical Q: 'How can a pro, especially a sweaty pro like Roddick, use a towel between points but I can't?' I knew there was a 20 second time limit between points and thought I was right but didn't know the truth until I looked it up.

    I challenge anyone to find a USTA Rules of Tennis in any metro clubhouse in my area. This is our fault as a community. Recently, I asked my local clubhouse to sell the small USTA Rules of Tennis pamplet like I picked up a the USTA. So I brought back 16 copies for friends, and a few for the clubhouse. I asked them to put them out on display and see if they sell. If you buy them from the USTA, it cost you $2.95 and $2.95 to ship. I paid $1.50 for each. There is consensus among my tennis buddies, that most people don't know the rules for one very good reason ~ the rules aren't readily available in any clubhouse that we can find. The USGA gets it. Walk into almost any golf clubhouse in the metro Charleston area, and you can buy the USGA "Rules of Golf" for about $3.

    I understand the strategy of making your opponent uneasy. Moving up a second serve is wise if the second serve is dramatically weaker than the first, or in your case if you feel you can intimidate the server by your chess move.

    Hitting people never makes me happy. I don't like hitting my friends, and I certainly don't like hitting strangers. I would simply prefer my opponent choose not to put me in a position that forces me to do something I don't want to -- aim at him. Yes, I could choose to be intimated and serve away from the guy, but that's not going to happen. If people want to do this fine, go ahead. I think it's childish and immature. If an opponent can't beat me with his 'A game' and has to resort to gamesmanship, oh well, go ahead. I don't need to win a tennis game that badly. I'm not a tennis pro. Tennis is a sport and a social game for me. Tennis doesn't not put food on my table. I'm completely comfortable with my self-esteem and winning or losing a tennis match doesn't affect my self-esteem. Tonight when I lost 6-2, 6-2 to a 4.5 player, I actually felt good in many ways. Why? Because I walked away with some great lessons learned. We had some long rallies. Some points probably went 20 hits per point. My serve sucked horribly, so I know I can do much better. I lost many points do to being impatient. But I broke the guy's server for the first time and came back from 40-0 to win a game on his serve. I hadn't played in a week, yet I managed to get four games off of a 4.5. Hopefully next time, I will get a few more games off the guy. And maybe one day, I will beat him.

    So legally, a receiver's partner can stand anywhere he chooses. And I will quickly compartmentalize my thoughts, and not even notice he is there. Then I will hit him. When I hit the second guy earlier this year, I looked right at the guy and said "If you stand there again, I'm going to hit you again." He never stuck his racquet in the AD Court Service box again during my serve. I think it ridiculous that I have to resort to such tactics. What did he get from doing it? A fastball to the gut.

    I like reading forums to see what others think and I respect your opinion to play as you wish. Hope you don't get beamed by anyone with a monster serve when you are trying to get something to work out. When I get to that point, I simply tip my hat and acknowledge the other player is a better man than me on the court. I have no intention of getting drilled by a 100mph serve due by putting myself in the line of fire.
     
    #63
  14. pinky42

    pinky42 Rookie

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    You need to look at the rule in it's entirety. Yes, it says that a player may change position at any time. However, if that movement (or sound) is made solely to distract the opponent, then it is not allowed. The second clause is not in opposition to the first, it restricts when the first clause applies. It's like saying the speed limit is 55 except in construction zones.

    The Q&A is reinforcing Rule #34, not contradicting it. Yes, the receiver's partner may stand in the service box. However, if that person moves, it can be construed that the sole purpose of taking that position and then moving was to distract the server. That violates the second clause which is why it's not allowed. So, pointing out that Rule #34 says that a player may change position at any time doesn't help because that's not the part of the rule you're violating. It's the second part that's being violated.
     
    #64
  15. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Pinky42. Your explanation makes sense.
     
    #65
  16. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

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    i find this is a good test. some players this will have no effect on whatsoever. the majority however this will illicit a couple of double faults -- especially on high pressure points.
     
    #66
  17. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    G4, nice discussion. I hope you don't think I am ragging on you too much. I just like to debate and argue. I guess its a by product of being a lawyer. Thats probably why I read the rules very carefully when an issue like this comes up. I don't have all the rules memorized, but if i don't know the answer to something, I will usually go to the rules, read up on that part, so I will know the answer the next time that issue comes up.
     
    #67
  18. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    blakesq,

    Thanks for the posts. I didn't take your posts as ragging on me. You were right. Period. I appreciate your inputs and your take on this setup. Life is a learning process and I have a lot to learn still. On that note, I brought back 16 copies of the USTA Rule's of Tennis for my friends and our clubhouse. There is plenty I don't know, and just yesterday a friend asked me if using string-savers was legal in a USTA match. I told him "I don't know, but brought you a copy of the rules. Please let me know." ;)

    The guy asking about the string-savers told me you can't have a vibration dampener on a cross string. I don't use them, but I didn't know this either. I looked that up and sure enough, he's right. Does the USTA actually think a dampener could alter a point, game or a match if a dampener touches a cross string? Wow, the USTA is getting very NCAAish it seems. :(

    Neither of us have found any reference to using string savers, but I just put VS Touch in the mains on two racquets, so for $3 a stick, I hope to extend the life of the mains a few hours.

    I have a lot of attorney friends. Is it ok to write that? ;) On of our co-captains is an attorney. I'm giving him his rules tomorrow and expect him to keep us out of trouble.

    blakesq, thanks again.
     
    #68
  19. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    First of all, Stringsavers are completely legal.

    Secondly, the rule about dampening devices is not just a USTA rule. It is an ITF/ATP/WTA rule as well. You can have as many dampening devices in your racquet as you wish, so long as they are outside of the stringing pattern of the racquet
     
    #69
  20. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

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    Lots of attorney friends. Oh, my.
     
    #70
  21. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Woodrow1029, what the purpose of the rule on dampeners not touching the crosses?

    I understand it is a rule, but would it really affect the outcome of a game?

    v/r
     
    #71
  22. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    Honestly I don't know. I never asked what the intent was on that one. I will try to find out.
     
    #72
  23. MNPlayer

    MNPlayer Semi-Pro

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    Perhaps it's a blanket rule to try to prevent "spaghetti strings" type devices.
     
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  24. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    Thats my understanding too, the rule against dampeners being in the string bed is to stop people from trying the spaghetti string technique, which can impart crazy unpredictable spin to the tennis ball.


     
    #74
  25. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

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    I thought the Dampener could touch the bottom cross.
     
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