Doubles GOAT ?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by robow7, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. robow7

    robow7 Professional

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    Now that the Bryan brothers have amassed the most grand slam trophies (over taking Newk and Roche), the most all time tourney wins in the Open Era, and 300+ weeks at #1, does this make them the GOAT of doubles teams or does anyone care at this point since the best singles players no longer participate in dubs?
     
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  2. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I'll throw out a few doubles great teams.
    McEnroe/Fleming
    Newcombe/Roche
    Rosewall/Hoad
    Sedgman/McGregor
    Richard Norris Williams/Vinnie Richards
    Bromwich/Quist
    Budge/Mako
    Hewitt/Mcmillan
    Bryan brothers
     
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  3. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    I say Mac/Fleming. Mac maintained a high level in doubles and singles simultaneously. As far as I know the BBros just play dubs.
     
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  4. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    robow7, We cannot compare a Newcombe-Roche team with Bryan-Bryan because, as you say, nowadays the best players don't play doubles anymore.
     
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  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    pc1, I would add Borotra/Brugnon, Allison/van Ryn, Lott/Stoefen, Seixas/Trabert, Hewitt/Stolle, Emerson/Stolle, Emerson/Laver, Woodbridge/Woodforde.

    My vote goes to Hoad/Rosewall: They won 15 doubles majors despite of tough competition (Seixas/Trabert, Hartwig/Rose, Buchholz/Laver).

    The most successful doubles players should be Rosewall (24 doubles majors won) and Emerson (172 doubles tournaments won)...
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  6. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    I think they for sure are best doubles of Open era, its hard to judge for all time cause they don't play singles

    McEnroe won single/double title in more than 30 tournaments, by far the best in Open era
     
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  7. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    :) .........
     
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  8. vwfye

    vwfye Semi-Pro

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    Who was the best doubles team in the open era? Mac and whoever he chose to partner with...
     
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  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Great list.I´d say 80% of the best teams are Australian.
     
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  10. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    :lol:

    You would include Federer/Wawrinka as two of the best right? For their triumph over the Bryans? :lol:
     
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  11. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    John Newcombe and Tony Roche, in a good day, were nearly unbeatable.

    Fleming/Mc and Hewitt/Mc Millan come next.

    Woodies were also excelent.

    other great combos, from 1970 on:

    Lutz-Smith,Fibak-Okker, Riessen-Stewart ( and Riessen-Okker), Gottfried-Ramirez,Alexander-Dent,Gunthardt-Taroczy,Connors-Nastase,Curren-Denton, Mc Namara-Mc namee ( who won two wimblies over Fleming and Mac ¡¡¡ ), Edmondson-Stewart,Edberg-Jarryd, Fitzgerald-Jarryd, Flach-Seguso, leconte/Forget-Noah, Mecir-Smid ( a great team), Pugh-Leach, Lozano-Witskedt...
     
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  12. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Brough and Dupont, Court and _____, Navratilova and Shriver,
     
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  13. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Rosie Casals, Wendy Turnbull,helena Sukova,Martina Hingis, Hanna Kurnikova, Dupont,Betz...
     
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  14. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Phoenix1983, You are a bit too young to be able to troll me. Learn history!!!
     
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  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Yes, the Aussies were awesome in doubles. I even omitted Rosewall/Stolle, Alexander/Dent and Case/Masters.
     
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  16. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NadalDramaQueen, Instead of being nasty you should explain me why Rosewall's 24 major doubles titles are not the top. Learn history (but not from Phoenix...)!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  17. Wolbo

    Wolbo Rookie

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    + Haarhuis (54 doubles titles) / Eltingh (44 doubles titles)
     
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  18. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    You are the troll for suggesting that Rosewall is not only singles GOAT, but also doubles GOAT! :)
     
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  19. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    I would say Briana Banks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  20. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Phoenix, I can blame you easily for denying that Rosewall won the most doubles majors. Who else????? Do you also doubt that Laver won four Wimbledons and that the Empire State Building stands in New York?. Okay, you are free to do that but please stop insulting me! It's not gentleman-like.....

    Have you overlooked that I also mentioned Emerson for the best?
     
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  21. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Guys,

    I'm not sure if Rosewall is the singles or doubles GOAT but honestly if he isn't, he isn't that far off.

    Lots of great doubles players like McEnroe, Rosewall, Emerson, Newcombe, Hewitt just over the last few decades.
     
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  22. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Thanks, pc1 for this support. Rosewall's number of 24 doubles majors is really impressive. He should be ranked as a GOAT candidate. He won those titles with 7 partners: Hoad, Stolle, Gonzalez, Laver, Ralston, Anderson and Davidson. At Wembley Muscles won seven doubles titles.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  23. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    that is right.I forgot them.

    A great doubles team was also Hlasek-Forget.

    On clay, I´d also mention Gildemeister/Gomez and Bertolucci/Panatta and later on, Casal/sanchez

    There were guys that succeded with many different partners, but never changed side.Rosewall,Emerson,Stolle,Okker,Fibak,Edmondson,Jarryd,Fitzegerald,Witskedt,Forget...
     
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  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Loved Rosewall-Stolle.The short guy with the genious brains and the lanky, adaptable, big server and tall Stolle.Great contrast.

    The two teams I really would have love to see are Bromwich-Quist and Mc Gregor-Sedgman.

    Mervyn Rose and Lewis Hoad were also great with different teammates.
     
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  25. donnayblack99

    donnayblack99 New User

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    Bryan Bros are now the undisputed GOAT... 13 Majors. Nuff said.
     
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  26. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    what about ladies?

    Many remember the great teams like Navy and Shriver/King, Casals and King/Evert, Stove and Turnbull, Jordan and Smith.I recall also Hingis and Kurnikova as well as the Williamses, the last two great teams.
     
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  27. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Don't forget the Woodies.
     
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  28. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Not enough said: Hoad/Rosewall have 15 majors...
     
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  29. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    And Hoad/Rosewall only played a few years together.
    Hoad spent a lot of time paired with Hartwig, Fraser, Anderson and in 1959 was awsesome with Trabert.
     
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  30. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    A little correction of one of my posts: Rosewall won doubles majors with eight partners. I forgot Sedgman...
     
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  31. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Yes, Stolle was adaptable: He made a great duo with Hewitt, then with Emerson, then with Laver in 1967 as a pro and at last with Rosewall. Four great doubles.

    Rose played with Hartwig and Don Candy, Hoad played of course with Rosewall, also with Hartwig and Trabert.

    Interesting: Hoad won the French Pro doubles seven times in a row.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  32. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Hoad had good results on clay.
    In 1972, in the Italian Open doubles final, Hoad and Frew McMillan led Nastase/Tiriac two sets to love, but eventually lost the match, uncompleted by darkness.
     
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  33. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, Please explain how they lost a match which was uncompleted. No irony intended.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  34. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Actually when you think about it Rosewall has the perfect strokes for doubles. His serve was fine but not overpowering but in doubles he could serve and come in with abandon because he's covering half the court. His volley was very strong, among the best in history. He had a super return. His overhead was top notch. He was consistent and almost never off. And like all top doubles players, he knew how to play the angles.

    I think McEnroe is clearly the best since the late 1970's and perhaps of all time along with a few others.
     
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  35. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Lets replace Evert with Gigi Fernandez who won twice as many doubles titles at 69, and

    Wiki ...Fernández won a non-calendar year doubles Grand Slam with 17 Grand Slam women's doubles title – six French Open, five US Open, four Wimbledon, and two Australian Open winning at least one Grand Slam title every year from 1988–1997, except 1989, and for three straight years winning three of the four Grand Slam doubles titles in the same year (1992–1994). She won 14 of her 17 Grand Slam titles partnering Natasha Zvereva; their partnership is the second most successful doubles pair in Grand Slam history after Martina Navratilova and Pam Shriver in the Open era.[4]...

    Evert won....drumrole please....3.
     
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  36. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Hoad and McMillan were upset about the strange on-court antics of Nastase and Tiriac, who managed to disrupt the progress of the match.
    At 5 to 3 in the fifth set, darkness was beginning to interfere with the match, so the umpire halted play and declared the Rumanians the winners.
    Yes, very strange.
    But, the match was in Italy, and the Rumanians were like the home players, the crowd favourites.
     
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  37. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Frew McMillan, like Laver, rated Hoad's volleys as the best ever, with the minimum of motion, maximum power, sharp angles.
     
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  38. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The best single players doesn't necessary means they will also be the best players in double. While the Bryan brothers aren't that good in single, but no top singles are going to beat them. It's not just about skills, but good team player, good chemistry, communication. If you insinuating today's double are weak(sigh), you're wrong.
     
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  39. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Team play, chemistry, communication? Sounds like you are referring to Hoad/Rosewall, who won 15 major doubles titles, more than the Bryans.
     
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  40. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Lew&Frew: fantastic mixture of power&finesse
    Same as Hoad&Santana.They beat Laver&Gimeno, great line up
     
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  41. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    What about Fraser? He and Hoad, Cooper or Emmo
    Even second class aussies were great:Fletch,Owen and later Marks,Eddo,Case ( one of the finest FH volleys. I saw), Masters ( very talented),Alexander,Dent,greckat Kim Warwick, who ubderachieved big time and solid Fitzgie
     
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  42. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The Bryans brother won a record 13 grand slam titles.

    Bryans win record 13th Slam title
     
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  43. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Rosewall bh return at the oncoming guy's feet were half point won
    See that a lot
    Stolle would just put the volley away
     
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  44. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Never forget underrated McNamacs:
    A team able to beat Mac&Flambo twice at a Wimbledon final is an all time great
    Just behind the two americans for the whole 80
    Unfortunately Edberg and Jarryd ( HI SusanDK) did not play long time
    They were the perfect team and their peak would have been unreal
     
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  45. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    #45
  46. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Hall of Fame

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    King & Casals
    Gigi Fernandez & Natasha Zvereva
    The Williams (mainly because of the massive stroke some will have if they don't get mentioned)

    They should be on the list as well
     
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  47. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Court and Wade were pretty good.
     
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  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Hingis,Davenport,Kurni
    AMO Martina won a lot with differen partners
     
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  49. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    You're comparing apples to oranges. Hoad/Rosewall did not win 15 grand slam doubles, but the B Brothers won 13(that's the record).
     
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  50. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    TMF, you obviously do not consider pro majors to be major tournaments.
    This is a highly debatable position you have chosen to take.
    Probably not a sensible one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
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