Doubles GOAT ?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by robow7, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    John Bromwich and Adrian Quist have to be up there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  2. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Bryan Bros. couldn't even beat Fed-Wawrinka (who had how much experience playing in doubles?). Gimme Mac-Fleming
     
  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    The Allman brothers?
     
  4. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    LOL, another players during the 1930s. No way they are in the same league as the modern B Brothers, who's set the standard by winning a record 16 slams. Have some respect for them.
     
  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    TMF, You don't know that Bromwich-Quist lost several years to WW2.
     
  6. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    if only the BB's (Bosom Buddies) played singles, and at a high level, they could be compared to the real greats.

    as it is they are only doubles players, not tennis players.

    they're still great at the twin tennis thing, no doubt.
     
  7. robow7

    robow7 Professional

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    One can argue that certain great singles players of the past eras might have been great doubles players since the styles of play, S & V, were so similar between the two games, but to hear that today's great singles players would automatically make great doubles players is ludicrous since the two game's required skills have diverged so much recently. Nadal would not be a great doubles player as he stands today, though he has an excellent service return. Could he become a great doubles player, who knows? but it would not coincide with his present greatness in grinding it out and long groundstroke exchanges. Also remember, we're talking about team play here and with the Bryans you get a synergistic improvement vs. either one by themselves. I'm sure we can put together a greater doubles team on paper like Mac and someone else but over time, those two great doubles players might not accomplish as much as the Bryans, for the same reasons that you can't simply take greatest musicians and put together the greatest band. As the Bryans continue to rack up records, it seems hard to keep them out of the top few. My take anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  8. alpinenut

    alpinenut New User

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    Bryan Brothers and Woodies would take any of the other teams over an entire season. Mac/Fleming might have been able to take a few matches from either.
     
  9. DMP

    DMP Semi-Pro

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    Okker. More titles than McEnroe, with more partners. :)
     
  10. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sorry but you don't get any credit for not playing. And there's no way of knowing the outcome if they actually play.
     
  11. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    TMF, It yet has to be considered.
     
  12. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sorry but I consider imaginary events has no value.
     
  13. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    TMF, That's your fault.
     
  14. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    I'd likely agree with this.....i mean i do.

    Only reason I put Mac up there is that he was ALSO tops in singles.
    A trump card so to speak.

    But if you omit that, which is reasonable (most don't do the "double" successfully anymore) than yeah, the aforementioned take it.
     
  15. DMP

    DMP Semi-Pro

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    Don't the Williams sisters rather destroy your argument? It seems to me that they play(ed) only part-time, yet had some pretty good results. It seems to me they prove that even today the very best singles players are better than the regular doubles teams.

    In fact, on the men's side, I think you asked when, if ever, the Bryant Brothers could be considered the greatest ever. I think the answer, sadly, has to be never. Or at least not until doubles changes from the Mickey Mouse version it has become with the changes in the rules, and the lack of participation of the very best players on a regular basis. I say sadly because I regret the changes that have been made to doubles. I think there is nothing more exciting in tennis than a fast mens doubles net rally. Regrettably the days when the best players entered doubles and took it seriously have long gone.

    I have no doubt the Bryant Brothers are very, very, good. But the best? Sadly - no.
     
  16. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^ what rules changes are you speaking of?

    i'm not very informed on such matters, just curious.
     
  17. DMP

    DMP Semi-Pro

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    "In 2006, ATP Doubles embraced exciting new changes, including an innovative new scoring format featuring a Match Tie-break (first to 10 points, win by two) in place of a decisive third set, and no-ad games (sudden death at Deuce)."

    They thought it would make the game more exciting, to counter-act the loss in interest in doubles.
     
  18. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not surprise that the Bryans Brothers are grossly underrated in here because he's a modern player. Oh wait...this a The Laver Forum.
     
  19. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    TMF, Two players are ONE modern player? Interesting.
     
  20. robow7

    robow7 Professional

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    Women's doubles technique does in fact more often mirror the women's singles game, not so in men's tennis. Often they will serve and stay back, rarely in the men's game.
     
  21. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I got this info from another forum...

    If the Bryan Brothers win the USO they will be the first double players to win the Calendar Grand Slam since 1951.

    They are the highest on the list for double goat, but if they win the USO, are they an undisputed double goat ?
     
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    well you know who won the 51 slam?
    Sedgman and Mc Gregor
    Nros are the best nowadays and probably the only modern team able to make the top 10 ever
    But there are not great doubs players and teams anymore
    They are a modern version of amateur slam king Roy Emerson: lack of great competition inflstes record and sorry, but they are SOOO FAAR from being GOAT
     
  23. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    weak competition can only goes against the past generation, not the present. No double players have reached the standard of the Bryan Brothers.
     
  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Geez Off my hat I could think of 10 or 15 teams who would teach them a lot of doubs
    If Bryants are doubs best, then Emerson is singles best
    No logic at all
    Whi plays doubs now? The funny Polands, old fart untalented Myrni, Nestor and Zimonjic Lol lol and more lol. Good old fart Bjorkman?
    It is a walk cat for Bryants
    It is even worse than current WTA
     
  25. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Given them playing in this era, none of them would have achieved close to what the Bryan Brothers have so far. Keep in mind it isn't all about talent, power and athleticism, but it's about chemistry and team works that no double player can match the B Brothers.

    Just wait until The Tennis Channel come out with the top 100 double goat. I'm very confident that the unbiased experts will have the Bryan Brothers at #1.
     
  26. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Thanks, I needed a good laugh
    I was exactly talking about smarts, tactics and chemistry
    I have seen them and live and they are ok, but the opposition isarce so weak and scarce it inflates them so much
    Top 20 ever? could be
    Top 10? Dream on, Dream on
     
  27. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    you need to get serious.

    doubles of now is far inferior to what it was in the past when top players actually cared about doubles and played frequently.

    This is objective, not subjective.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  28. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Nailed
    There were also good only doubles players and I would put them at that level
    Let' s say, to give s good example, John Fitzgerald, Heinz Gunthartdt, Hank Pfister or Ross Case
     
  29. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    So if we assumed Nadal, Nole Fed all join in to play double the B. Brothers wouldn't be that great? Not all great single can be great double player. Can Fed and Wawrinka co-exist and win slam? Who knows, but that's just an assumption. You also need to pick the right partner that works well as a team, that's what the twin brothers(Bryan) have that the other pro players doesn't have.
     
  30. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    no, not every great single player can be great double players, but many of them can - as has been shown in the past plenty of decades ........

    Sedgman/McGregor
    hoad/rosewall
    emerson/stolle
    newcombe/roche
    mcenroe/fleming
    edberg/jarryd

    etc etc .

    very few top players take doubles seriously these days ......it was already going down by the 90s and has gone down further now ....
     
  31. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I would say that the players you mention were also pretty good in singles.
     
  32. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    TMF, You are so funny. Good one.:lol:

    Hilarious!!
     
  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Gunthardt had some success but he quickly concentrated on doubs.The others were middle class journeymen in singles.Never achieved anything mentionable.
     
  34. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks. I want BobbyOne and kiki to be happy since the Tennis Channel is so informative to them. :)
     
  35. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    The BB's win the GOAT dubbs of "tennis twins who never played with anyone else, maybe mixed...also don't compete in singles".

    weren't even allowed to play each other in a draw as juniors, one had to default. (yes, singles...)

    c'mon.

    great dubs team, nonetheless.

    Martina is the single greatest dubs player ever.
     
  36. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You mean that pool of " experts" who placed Gonzales around 25 or so?

    Yes, their credibility is astonishing.:)
     
  37. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Fitzgerald won 9 tournaments, Pfister 4 and Case 7, among them the 1974 San Francisco event with a final win against Ashe (Connors was in the draw).
     
  38. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Deleted post
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Mighty Federer, Yes, the Tennis Channel's people "informed" me that even prominent experts can make insane ranking lists...
     
  40. SamSung

    SamSung New User

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    That's stupid. Fitzgerald beat Lendl when he was #1 in the world, got to 25 in singles, made the 4th round of Wimbledon three times and won 2 Davis Cups. THAT IS HIGHLY MENTIONABLE.

    Fitzgerald was no world beater but to say he "never achieved anything mentionable" isn't just a load of crap it's also totally ignorant.

    Pfister got to the 4th round of Wimbledon three times, the semis at the Aus three times (although the fields were weak) and had a career high ranking of 19.

    Again, he was no world beater but if you think what he achieved isn't worth mentioning then you're a total moron.
     
  41. Down_the_line

    Down_the_line Legend

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    Um, doubles is a completely different game. Those guys you mentioned ARE the best at it and very good at what they do. Would it make you feel better if you threw big names like Djokovic, Nadal and Federer into the doubles mix? Because the Bryans would give guys like that even more of a beatdown than they would inflict on the skilled, doubles veterans you listed.
     
  42. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Read my post
    I said doubles was played by some greats but also great specialust
    Those you mention would do bad in doubs
    Hewitt&Mc Millan would wipe the floor with say Borg and Connors
     
  43. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Case FH volley is among the best seen
    But even if they had some good singles players, they basically focused on doubles at some point
    Amaya&Pfister won RG and reached US final
    Case&Masters won Wimbledon
    Gunthartd&Balasz won WTF and RG
    Fitzie won many majors with different partners
     
  44. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Take it easy Mr Korea
    I liked all of them and am well aware of their singles record
    You forgot to mention Gunthartd won Rotterdam b both G Mayer and Lendl and won Springfield against Solomon becoming lowest ranked player to win a GP
    I just meant their biggest success came in doubs but never meant to belittle their singles
    By middle class I place players with similar records as them: good but not great
     

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