Doubles Round Robin Schedule Generator

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Boj, May 30, 2012.

  1. Boj

    Boj New User

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    I have been asked to organize some doubles tennis round robin events in my community.

    Does anybody know of a phone app or website that can take into account number of players and number of courts to generate a doubles round robin schedule?

    Any other advice in helping to keep events such as this running smoothly is greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
     
    #1
  2. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Ensure all courts use no-ad scoring. This stops matches ending at widely varying times. Imagine some courts going 40-5, maybe a deuce here and there, while other courts are going to five or more deuce games.

    No ad scoring will keep most courts ending fairly close to the same time.
     
    #2
  3. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Boj- I run a big Round Robin in Atlanta. How I do it is that I have people give me their level when they sign up and then I seed people by courts so they have an initial starting court. We warm up for 10 minutes, then people play for 20 minutes of no-ad scoring. No-ad points deciding points are gender to gender though women can choose to serve to the guy if they prefer. After the 20 minutes if you are winning you move up a court and then split so that you are playing against the person you just played with. People above you would send the 2 losing people down and they would also split. This means that even if I have you seeded too high or too low you will quickly find the level you belong. Its tough to get carried up or down by a partner since you play them the next round no matter what.

    The events are very popular- we routinely fill up 16 courts of doubles and normally have at least 20 people on the waitlist to play.

    Was there a different kind of Round Robin that you had in mind?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2012
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  4. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

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    Hmm...Spot, that sounds like tons of fun. Where in the metro area is your round robin? I might like to participate some time!
     
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  5. chollyred

    chollyred Rookie

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    Atomic,

    Spot has these over at DeKalb Tennis Center. I've had a chance to play once before baseball and injuries got in the way. Can't wait to play again. It was lots of fun and a lot of really nice people to hang around. He does it right.
     
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  6. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    www.dekalbtennis.com is the site for the Round Robin. You should definitely check it out. The level of play has been ridiculously high lately. We've been having 3 or 4 courts of AA players and another 6 or 7 courts of A level players. The group of people is a ton of fun and there is always a big group going out afterward for drinks.
     
    #6
  7. Boj

    Boj New User

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    Spot - Thanks for your input. We did a similiar format in our neighborhood (on a smaller scale) over the holiday weekend. The downfall was that there were more players than we had expected. We had 26 players show up and we only had 4 courts reserved.

    Trying to figure out how to cycle people in and out was our issue.

    In the past I have been in events where it is more of a true mixed doubles round robin, where every guy partners with every girl once. They also play against every girl and guy once, in some configuration or another. This can be a lot of tennis, even with 16 players!

    Are you familiar with this type of set up? Usually, the coordinator has a sheet printed out that determines the pairings for each round. I'm just wondering if there is somewhere online that has these pairing schedules posted.

    Your events sound like a lot of fun!
     
    #7
  8. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Boj- in your case where you have no idea how many people are going to show up I'd probably set up a court of "King of the Court" to handle the overflow.

    I'm not really sure what you are looking for. A true Round Robin tournament is where you play against every other team so thats not it. Do you want something that will just spit out random pairings if you give it a list of 16, 20, or 24 games? Do you want it to set it so that if you ahve 20 people but only 4 courts then a random 4 people would sit out every turn?
     
    #8
  9. catfish

    catfish Semi-Pro

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    Topdog sports has a free tennis round robin scheduler. It takes into account number of players & courts. It doesn't work well for large leagues where you have multiple teams and levels using the same facilities.

    www.topdogtennis.com
     
    #9
  10. Boj

    Boj New User

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    That's what I was looking for.
    Looks like it's called switch partner doubles
    Thanks Catfish!

    Only problem I have is that I want to specify male or female for each player so that I only get unique mixed doubles teams. It is probably in here....
     
    #10
  11. catfish

    catfish Semi-Pro

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    I don't know if there is a male / female designation in Topdog scheduler. I've never had to do that.
     
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  12. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    I started writing a program to do this, but it's not finished as I never quite worked out the right algorithm. However, the brute force approach worked well enough for lower numbers, so I've got a couple of spreadsheets with some combinations. The one that works best is 16 players (8 male, 8 female) on 4 courts, as it means you can go 4 rounds where you're never play with / against the same person.

    In terms of how to schedule it, I think it works best to split players into 2 pools. So if you have 32 players, you have two groups of 16, let them play a 20 minute match and then rotate. To run smoothly, it probably requires you knowing the exact number in advance (plus having reserves for when people drop out), unless you find an app that can do it all on the fly.

    If you want the spreadsheets I have (16 players over 4 courts for 6 rounds and 12 players over 3 courts for 4 rounds), drop me an email via my profile.
     
    #12
  13. Boj

    Boj New User

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    Thanks Dags!

    I would be interested in the spreadsheets. It doesn't look like you have any contact info on your profile though.
     
    #13
  14. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    You either need to enable email in your own profile to see it in mine, or there may be a rule that means you need to reach 50 posts. In the meantime, I shall try to paste it below.

    16 players, 4 courts. The first 4 rounds should be unique combinations; rounds 5 and 6 players will be partnering people they've already played against. (n.b. that the embedded window below scrolls)

    Code:
    Round 1						
    						
    Court 1		M1	L1	vs	M2	L2
    						
    Court 2		M3	L3	vs	M4	L4
    						
    Court 3		M5	L5	vs	M6	L6
    						
    Court 4		M7	L7	vs	M8	L8
    						
    						
    Round 2						
    						
    Court 1		M2	L4	vs	M5	L7
    						
    Court 2		M3	L1	vs	M7	L6
    						
    Court 3		M4	L2	vs	M8	L5
    						
    Court 4		M1	L3	vs	M6	L8
    						
    						
    Round 3						
    						
    Court 1		M6	L2	vs	M7	L4
    						
    Court 2		M1	L5	vs	M3	L7
    						
    Court 3		M2	L6	vs	M4	L8
    						
    Court 4		M5	L1	vs	M8	L3
    						
    						
    Round 4						
    						
    Court 1		M4	L1	vs	M6	L7
    						
    Court 2		M2	L3	vs	M7	L5
    						
    Court 3		M1	L4	vs	M8	L6
    						
    Court 4		M3	L2	vs	M5	L8
    						
    						
    Round 5						
    						
    Court 1		M1	L7	vs	M5	L3
    						
    Court 2		M3	L5	vs	M8	L1
    						
    Court 3		M4	L6	vs	M7	L2
    						
    Court 4		M2	L8	vs	M6	L4
    						
    						
    Round 6						
    						
    Court 1		M6	L3	vs	M8	L2
    						
    Court 2		M1	L8	vs	M4	L5
    						
    Court 3		M3	L6	vs	M2	L7
    						
    Court 4		M5	L4	vs	M7	L1
    12 players on 3 courts. This is far more awkward. I only did 4 rounds, and L1 plays L4 twice, with M3 playing M6 twice.

    Code:
    Round 1						
    						
    Court 1		M2	L2	vs	M1	L6
    						
    Court 2		M3	L4	vs	M6	L1
    						
    Court 3		M4	L5	vs	M5	L3
    						
    						
    Round 2						
    						
    Court 1		M5	L5	vs	M6	L6
    						
    Court 2		M2	L4	vs	M4	L3
    						
    Court 3		M3	L1	vs	M1	L2
    						
    						
    Round 3						
    						
    Court 1		M3	L5	vs	M4	L4
    						
    Court 2		M5	L6	vs	M1	L1
    						
    Court 3		M6	L2	vs	M2	L3
    						
    						
    Round 4						
    						
    Court 1		M1	L4	vs	M4	L1
    						
    Court 2		M3	L6	vs	M6	L3
    						
    Court 3		M2	L5	vs	M5	L2
    In the spreadsheet, I had a list of players on Sheet 1, and the match ups on Sheet 2. The cells in Sheet 2 referenced those in Sheet 1, so I could just change the list of players and the schedule reflected that.
     
    #14
  15. Boj

    Boj New User

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    I appreciate you sharing this!
     
    #15
  16. Xfimpg

    Xfimpg Rookie

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    I'm resurrecting this thread... :)

    How much time do you allocate for each match, i.e. with 6-6 max in games, tie-breaker, and no-ad scoring? Any other buffer time in there?

    Thanks
     
    #16
  17. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    I do 20 minutes per rotation. We do no ad scoring to make sure there are a decent number of games that get played and 1 long service game doesn't take up the whole rotation. Some people definitely bristle about the no-ad scoring but I think overall it is the best solution.

    No other buffer time between rotations. People will definitely run up to get a drink or some food in between but people are quick about it.
     
    #17
  18. Xfimpg

    Xfimpg Rookie

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    Hey Spot
    Do you mean you budget 20 min per rotation or you time-limit sets to 20 min?
    I had actually allocated 45 min per set with no-ad scoring but I think I budgetted too much time!
     
    #18
  19. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    We don't play complete sets- we rotate after 20 minutes. If you are winning you move up, if you are losing you move down.

    For us we tell people to arrive by 7:00 to get people checked in. People are warming up by 7:05. 7:15 people start playing. Then we do 6 20 minute rotations so we end at 9:15. We may end up switching that to take out a rotation and end at 9:00 as people at my event like to hang out a while afterward and talk with people who were on other courts before heading out for drinks.

    With the no-ad scoring and 20 minutes per rotation people usually get in 6 or 7 games.
     
    #19
  20. Xfimpg

    Xfimpg Rookie

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    Thanks, that's great feedback. I allocated 45 minutes for each set with no-ad scoring so looks like I'm right on target.
     
    #20
  21. Bedrock

    Bedrock Semi-Pro

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    Generator ?
     
    #21
  22. davidwilson

    davidwilson New User

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  23. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    There's lots of opportunity for drama. I think this format is the best so you don't get blamed for setting folks up to win/lose.

    • Fixed times for each round (~15-20 minutes)
    • Set up the initial pairings in the order folks sign up
    • Tiebreak scoring (so everyone gets to serve an equal amount... neutralizes big servers somewhat)
    • Just keep going past 7 and 10...
    • At the end of the round,
      • winning team moves up a court and splits up
      • losing team moves down a court an and splits up
      • play 1 more point if the score is tied

    After a few rounds, the pairings will begin to even out.
     
    #23
  24. davidwilson

    davidwilson New User

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    Checkout the iTennisRoundRobin at interTennis.com

    The online application takes into account the number of players and number of courts to generate interchanging doubles round robin schedules. You can specify holidays and make player substitutions.

    David
     
    #24
  25. Perrotoro

    Perrotoro New User

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    Sign up board

    We have a large sign up board with squares for 20+ courts. You sign up for the next available court in blank square. As a court clears, the 4 names are called to go to that court. An x is put in that square along with the court number to account for free courts, Courts being used, and those next in line for a court.

    A committee provides two attendants each week to take payments and manage the board. There's a few that manipulate the system a bit, but the state tennis association calls it a perfect model for league networking and mixing.

    We use no-add only when we have huge numbers and extended waits for a court.
     
    #25
  26. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Do people not have an issue with playing with people of far different level? At my round Robin we have 3.5 to 5.0 players and I wouldn't think it would be particularly fun for some of the players to play together. Though maybe doing this with different levels might work...

    We try and arrange 14 courts of players constantly have a problem with having odd numbers of players because of late cancellations and this would be a nice alternative. (or even just something easier to run on weeks we do not organize one) Maybe just having 3 of these going simultaneously different levels would work.

    How does the gender mix work? Just whoever wants to sign up so there will be times with 3 guys and 1 girl?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
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  27. Perrotoro

    Perrotoro New User

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    Spot - 3.5's to 5.0's

    Hmmmm. That coul be a problem. If you're make-up is mostly 3.5's and 4.0's, you could consider have a couple of your courts designated as 8.5+ and the rest of your courts 7.5-8.0.

    We probably only have 4-dozen 4.5-5.0 Men in Baton Rouge that play league - there's more that play Club only. Our Saturday morning make-up is basically 2.5-4.0. Other low 4.0's like me will play a few matches with 2.5-3.0's because it's important as a feeder to our leagues - after that I wait to sign up with on-level players.
     
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  28. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the information. If I were to try and do it then that is likely what I would do. Have a 4.5+ signup with 2 or 3 courts. Have a 4.0 signup where most people would play. Then have a 3.0 to 3.5 signup for everyone else.

    Is it all men's doubles for yours or is it mixed doubles? We do mixed doubles and cap the number of guys that can sign up. The guys spots are often gone within a couple minutes where it can take a couple days to get women for all the courts. Is your group mostly men that sign up?
     
    #28
  29. Perrotoro

    Perrotoro New User

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    Mixed, Women's and Mens

    Usually we have equal numbers of men and women show up. I play mixed or Mens, as I think most do. A few may try to play all same gender, but I think most play more mixed.

    Each player's choice is to either go ahead and sign up for the next court (maybe a random of unknowns to the player - but usually you know 75% of the partiicapnts as repeats) - OR - he/she must wait til the pending sign-up block has 4 signups before another signup block for a court can be started. So for instance, if I have 3 on-level guys, or a mixed group I want to play with, I have to wait until the pending block is full before I sign up my group of 4. Occasionally you'll miss if you're socializing too much.

    Obviously, the system will not always lend itself to a a competitive match - it requires a certain mindset that you are there to help the tennis community, have fun, and even be ready to practice form if a random pairing proves not-so competitive. I usaully play 5 sets, 3 will be competitve, 1 a step up or down, and 1 for fun to help "up-and-comers".

    The association will have fruit and snacks there usually For Valentines, prizes were awarded to those with the best theme outfits. Click on Fun Stuff at: http://www.hptabr.org/


    For very competitive 4.5's and up, it probably isn't a great system - but the courts reserved for upper levels may make it work well. Hard to know. It'll take some "village efforts" to get it off the ground.
     
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  30. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    This was the system when I last played a doubles round robin.

    1) No Ad scoring is most important as a couple of previous posters have pointed out.
    2) Winners move up to a higher court, losers move down to a lower court.
    3) Switch partners every set. No one plays with same partner twice whenever possible.
    4) First to win 4 games wins. This allows about 5 rotations in 2 hours.
    5) The last team winning at the highest court are the winners.
     
    #30
  31. 1HBHfanatic

    1HBHfanatic Semi-Pro

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  32. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    I'm not sure that it will work for our Friday night Round Robin as people do like the format even if it is more work to organize.

    I might try and do a mostly men's doubles Round Robin on Sunday Mornings. Women's ALTA is on Sundays so the guys don't have a conflict. In the fall I could see trying to organize something like this so guys start at 10:00 and then roll to the bar after to watch football. I think I could get a sports bar to sponsor it. I don't think it would be as popular but there is so much less organization needed that it doesn't have to be. And with only (or mostly) Men's doubles then the level differences would even out- I'd expect most players to be 4.0 and higher.
     
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