DQ Question

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Doc Hollidae, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    I know this has been discussed in other threads, but I just want a definitive answer. If my computer rating is a 4.0, but I win the majority of my 4.5 league matches, 4.5 Singles Tourney matches, and 4.0 League matches. Can I be DQ'ed or does my computer based rating protect me from that?
     
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  2. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Computer rated players can be DQd, it's just less common than for self-rated players. Doing well at the 4.5 level would seem to put you at risk of being DQd from 4.0.
     
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  3. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    Would scores matter? I wasn't planning on playing 4.0's this year, but the computer dropped me even though my 4.5 tourney results were good and my 4.0 team is counting on me to be able to play.
     
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  4. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Yes, scores matter. The more matches you win and the greater the margin of victory (especially at 4.5), then the larger your dynamic rating will become.
     
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  5. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    Well I might be in trouble then.
     
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  6. Vik

    Vik Rookie

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    Wouldn't worry to much if the computer dropped you last year. This is assuming you had a decent amount of matches for the computer to work with.
     
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  7. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    It's a tough call, because he's probably at the borderline between 4.0 and 4.5. If he wasn't playing 4.5 then I'd say not to worry about it, based on reasoning similar to yours.

    Dominating matches at 4.5 would make me nervous if I was his 4.0 captain.
     
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  8. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    you can get DQed but if you do your team gets to keep your wins at 4.0 since you are computer rated
     
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  9. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    Yep, I've already won 2 doubles matches in 4.5's and haven't played a match in 4.0's yet, but looking at the other local teams in our league, there's a good likelihood I'll go undefeated in 4.0's.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
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  10. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    That's not the case in Norcal. If he's DQd to 4.5 then any matches played at 4.0 would become losses, computer rating has nothing to do with it. The only exception is if you are DQd in the fall seniors league, then any matches played in the concurrent mixed league would be allowed to stand.
     
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  11. LCJToons

    LCJToons Guest

    You need to play closer attention to the relative rankings of who you are beating. In norcal many of the 4.5 tournaments (CS Fremont) have predominantly 4.0 and lower 4.5 players in the singles draws. There are many 4.0 players also playing up onto 4.5 teams. At this level, if you've won by lopsided scores (2 breaks/set) at #1 singles or doubles, against the other teams best players, and if those players have consistent 70-80%+ winning percentages, then you are likely a real 4.5 player and should be concerned. If you're only beating guys that are similarly playing up to improve their game, but are actually only 4.0s or weaker 4.5s, then you should be able to get by and make your 4.0 capt. happy. That all being said, I have seen several strange things come out of "the computer" these days. Best of Luck !
     
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  12. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    If it is anything like the Mid-Atlantic, then having a computer rating is factored in.

    For example:

    If self-rated player gets DQ'd at level of self rating, then all wins are reversed.

    If computer-rated player gets DQ'd at level of computer rating, only last win is reversed.

    If comptuer-rated gets DQ'd and is playing up to a higher level, then all wins at the level of computer rating are reversed.

    So for the OP, if his section has this same rule, then he would lose all matches at 4.0. I was told by some people that it is unlikely to get DQ'd if you are computer rated and only play at your rating level but if you play up at the next level as well, you are much more likely to get DQ'd.
     
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  13. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy Rookie

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    my understanding is that it has something to do with getting a "red flag" also...for instance a 4.0 beating a 4.5 6-0, 6-0, or even 6-1, 6-1, will generate a flag....if someone on another team files a grievance against you then you get a flag

    i believe it's a 3 strikes and your out kinda deal....we had a local 3.5 guy that got 3 red flags and his team had to forfeit every match he won that year...then went from like 7-1 to something like 5-3....and this session they didn't even field a team...so it can obviously be a big deal
     
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  14. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    If someone files a grievance, then action is only taken if they have mis-represented their previous experience. For instance if you played D-3 college ball and you self-rate at 3.5, you will be DQ'd if a grievance is filed and there is evidence you played college ball. If a grievance is filed because you man-handle your opponents, no action is taken and the computer will decide based on match scores alone.

    If a 4.0 beats a strong 4.0 6-0, 6-0 that would likely generate a strike as well. My understanding is that to get DQ'd your match results would have to show that you would be a strong player at the next level up. So if you lose to a strong 4.5 with a competitive score, that could also generate a strike on your 4.0 rating.
     
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  15. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

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    I know of someone who had a similar situation last year that might shed some light. This person was a 4.5 college player and for some reason the computer dropped her to a 4.0. She played a lot of league play in 2007 at both 4.0 and 4.5 (mostly singles) and dominated in 4.0 and won all but one match at 4.5. The person she lost to ended up undefeated including going all the way through nationals without a loss and is now a 5.0.

    Anyway - the fact is that she never got bumped / DQ'd (until after the season anyway) despite a dominant and flawless record at both 4.0 and 4.5. While there are no guarantees here, based on your situation it sounds like you would be in a similar situation as well and are unlikely to get bumped mid-season.
     
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  16. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    I had a computer rated player on my team DQed last year. From what I understand, he ran into trouble because he:
    (1) was already on the cusp of being bumped the previous year;
    (2) did not lose many games at his computer level (mostly 6-1, 6-0) type sets; and
    3) was competitive at the next level.

    So, overall, he had a computer rating that was close to the next level, and that rating went up at every match due to him dominating the current level and being competitive at the next level.

    On the other hand, I have a teammate that wins every match for 3 years, but with some closer scores (6-4, 6-3), and he is not close to being moved up according to our league director.

    In summary, playing up will quickly increase your rating, but playing competitive matches at your current level will also move down your rating.

    I am not advocating you intentially dropping games. Instead, I just mention this because if you play doubles a lot, it is hard to really dominate because your partners tend to even out things.

    My teammate who got DQed got in trouble because his partner also got moved up this year, and they, as a team, were whipping everyone, including benchmark players
     
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  17. JSF1

    JSF1 Rookie

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    not sure about your USTA section, but last year the Southern Section stopped figuring tournament play into league NTRP
     
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  18. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    Yeah I really don't know what to expect. I probably won't be bageling people in 4.5's and will be predominately be playing doubles for both teams. My captain said I probably already have one strike for beating a 4.5 benchmark dubs team. Even though it was in a third set.

    I think the plan is to limit my play to just the important matches for both teams. It would have been a lot easier if the computer would have just kept me at a 4.5 and let me get on with my business.
     
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  19. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    I believe Norcal is the same way.
     
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  20. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Norcal does include tournament results in the year-end NTRP ratings. You don't, however, generate strikes from tournament matches and they don't affect your dynamic rating.
     
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  21. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    Do you know how to find out if you're in the upper, middle, or lower spectrum of your NTRP rating?

    Ex. Like a high 4.5 or a low 3.5.
     
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  22. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    You generally have to guess based on your match record and the records of the people you played against. There's nothing published that will help you. The main exception would be that if you succesfully appeal down, then you know you are at the top of your level.

    Since you were bumped down from 4.5 to 4.0, I'd expect that you are near the top of the 4.0 level.
     
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  23. Nellie

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    I would not worry about the DQ if I was you. The 4.0 captains were obviously looking for you because you are out of rating, and they want to take advantage. They do this at their own risk. What's it to you if you get DQ'ed from the 4.0 You will just play back at 4.5
     
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  24. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    I'm not worried about being DQ'ed personally. I could careless about playing 4.0's, but my teammates are counting on me. So it's more of an issue of not letting my teammate down, than wanting to play 4.0's.
     
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  25. duffman

    duffman Rookie

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    I would say you have nothing to worry about. I played 4.5 as a computer rated 3.0, went 4-2 at 4.5 and didn't get DQ'd from the 4.0 or 3.5 teams I played on that year. I would say that if you are computer rated, pretty much anything goes.
     
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  26. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    How did you end up with a 3.0 rating and why were you competing at 3 different levels?

    Also one time I found this guy in tennislink who got DQ'd playing 3.0 as a self-rate and then the next year he got DQ'd from 3.5 being computer rated. So it took 2 years for the guy to get put at the level he belonged.
     
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  27. duffman

    duffman Rookie

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    I started playing tennis for the first time in 2005 and self-rated as 3.0. Had a mediocre first season at 3.0 going 8-4 including 1-2 at districts. Basically didn't know what I was doing on the court and relied on my athletic ability and decent serve and forehand to get wins. After that season I was computer rated at 3.0 but in the meantime improved substantially with the help of a 4.5 player that took me under his wing.

    To make a long story short, I eventually started hitting with the other guys on this player's 4.5 team and they asked me if I wanted to play on their 2006 4.5 team so I jumped at the chance. Since I still had my 3.0 rating and I didn't really know where I belonged ratings wise at that point, I also played 3.5 and 4.0. Another captain rostered me on his 3.0 team but I never played on that team for obvious reasons. Looking back it was pretty funny to see the 4.5 team I was on and look down the roster at a bunch of 4.5s and see a 3.0 on the roster! Anyway, after that season, I was bumped to 4.0 and after last season bumped to 4.5, but I never did get DQ'd from the 3.5 team I was on.
     
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  28. Nellie

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    You would never get DQ'ed for playing over your rating - only for playing beneath the NTRP. You can always play up if a captain will take you.
     
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  29. randomname

    randomname Professional

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    you wouldnt get DQd for PLAYING over your rating but you sure as hell will if your winning matches above your rating
     
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  30. Nellie

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    I should clarify - a computer rated3.0 would never get disqualified by playing up and winning at a higher level. What would be the basis? Your rating will increase but you would never be above level of play.

    Under USTA rule 2.02E(1) Players who inappropriately self-rate at an NTRP level lower than their actual skill level are subject to a Self-Rate Grievance.

    But under 2.02E(2) Players with a valid NTRP computer rating are not subject to Self-Rate Grievances.

    So - if you are computer rated, you would never be DQed at a higher level for playing and winning at a higher level.
     
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  31. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Self rate grievances have nothing to do with a 3 strikes DQ. You get a strike when your dynamic rating exceeds the threshold for the level you are playing. If a 3.0 player (self-rated or computer-rated) gets a dynamic rating in the high 3.5 range, then they'll get a strike. Do that 3 times and they are DQ'd up to a 3.5 rating.

    It's generally difficult for a computer-rated 3.0 player that only plays in 3.0 leagues to generate dynamics in the high 3.5 range. It's much easier to generate dynamics in that range if they are winning matches at the 4.5 level.
     
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  32. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^ I think we are talking about different things - you can get DQ'ed at a 3.0 level by playing up and winning at the 4.5 level because your NTRP would be above 3.0, but your matches at the 4.5 level would not be DQed because you are getting no strikes in the 4.5 matches because your NTRP would not be above 4.5.
     
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  33. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Agreed! In this case the OP was worried about being DQ'd at the 4.0 level by playing up and winning at 4.5.
     
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  34. DrewRafter8

    DrewRafter8 Professional

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    Anybody know for certain how long they wait after you've had three strikes to initiate the DQ?
     
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  35. amarone

    amarone Semi-Pro

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    I do not know how much it varies, but I have seen a DQ be notified the day after the third strike. The NTRP ratings are calculated every night.
     
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