Dunlop 100: 4D or Bio

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Matt21, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Matt21

    Matt21 Semi-Pro

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    Hey guys, now that the Bio100 has been out for some time, you 100 purists out there... should I take the sub-$100 price of the AG4D100 or double-down and go with the Biomimetic? I have played with the 4D 200 and the 4D300T. I've also hit the Bio Max200g and love the feel of the Bio technology. Kinda torn b/c the only 100 I've ever played with/owned was the original AG100.

    Thoughts... Suggestions??
     
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  2. Matt21

    Matt21 Semi-Pro

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    BTW, I wasn't suggesting that I didn't like the 4D feel. It has a nice solid feel to it, but again, I ended up selling the 4D200 b/c I couldn't get the same spin generation that I got from the AG200 or the HM200g. I sold the 4D300T because it was too anemic vs big hitters and heavy spinners.
     
    #2
  3. lawrencejin

    lawrencejin Rookie

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    I haven't hit with Bio 100, but still, my vote goes to 4D 100. For the price of one Bio 100 you can get two 4D 100's here in TW, and you really can't go wrong with that.
     
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  4. Matt21

    Matt21 Semi-Pro

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    Thanks Lawrencejin. I was thinking along those lines and wouldn't have asked if the only difference was the materials, but the specs are considerably different (the Bio appearing to be slightly heavier). I usually add lead where needed, based on the way the frame plays, but in this case I'd still like to hear from someone who's played with both. All the Dunlops eventually drop to below $100 so if the difference in feel/playability is that drastic (positively tilted toward the Bio), it may be worth waiting.

    In the meantime, what other mid-sized frames have you played with and how would you compare them to the 4D 100?
     
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  5. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    I have both. Get the 4D100. Period.

    Unless you like the brassy feel in a racket, then get the Bio100.
     
    #5
  6. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Your sig is ridiculous
     
    #6
  7. lawrencejin

    lawrencejin Rookie

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    Spec-wise, the main difference between 4D 100 and Bio 100 seems to be the balance, which can easily be customized with lead. I actually prefer the more head-light balance of 4D as it complements my all-court game.

    I've tried a few other mids recently: Wilson BLX PS 90 and BLX PS 85. I am not the most racket-sensitive guy... I can play with all three interchangeably on the court. These Wilsons are more stable at the net, but 4D swings faster and gave me an advantage with serves. Also, 4D is more customization-friendly.
     
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  8. pkshooter

    pkshooter Semi-Pro

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    bio butt cap op...
    end of story
     
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  9. Matt21

    Matt21 Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for all the feedback guys. I think the final verdict to me is go with a.) price and b.) more room for customization. I think I'll give the 4D100 a try. Thanks again.
     
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  10. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    You made the right choice imo.
     
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  11. pkshooter

    pkshooter Semi-Pro

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    I have a 4 d too, it feels heavy for it spec weight and really is solid at impact. You can't see it on the tw pics but it has some nice detailing on the throat
     
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  12. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Professional

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    Of all the 100 series I only played stock with the AG100 and didn't like it. It was very flimsy returning medium paced shots. Tried out the 4D100 and never played it stock. Once I received it I leaded up right away and I still love it. They both feel very stable once you lead them up but only stable if you put lead everywhere. I didn't try the Bio100 because I hear that it's less stable than the 4D100. The four places I put lead is the butt, neck, 3&9 and 12'O clock.

    I wish they had the new mold too for the next 100 series after the Bio series.
     
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  13. The Dampener

    The Dampener Professional

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    Matt, I hit with the AG and 4D for years and demoed the Bio.

    In my opinion, the AG and 4D are very similar, and the Bio feels different from both of them.

    Best bet is to try them all. You've already stated you like the Bio feel. But the majority of users on this board prefer the 4D.

    It really does come down to personal tastes.
     
    #13
  14. acura9927

    acura9927 Semi-Pro

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    I have a couple of bio 200s and really like them. I did demo the bio 200 and the weighting was all off for me. I go with the 4d.
     
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  15. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Hi anirut,

    Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "brassy feel"? Thanks.

    (Yes, I know this is an old thread).
     
    #15
  16. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Hi Dampener,

    Could you please elaborate a little more on how the Bio 100 feels different than the AG100 and the 4D 100? I've only played with the AG100. In what ways is the feel of the Bio 100 different from the feel of the AG100?

    Thanks
     
    #16
  17. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Let's see ...

    Imagine you have two rods of same weight. One is wood and one is metal. Use the rods to hit on something. Can you imagine that kind of feel? The Bio 100 won't be as "metallic" as the imaginative test, but you'd know what I mean.
     
    #17
  18. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    OK, thanks anirut.

    How would you compare the feel of the Bio 100 with the AG100? (I have never hit with the 4D 100.) I already find the feel of the AG100 to be less buttery than that of K90 or PS 6.0 85.

    And other than the feel, how would you compare the Bio 100 to the AG100 in swingweight, flex, power, maneuverability, play, etc.?

    Thanks again.
     
    #18
  19. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    The AG100 feels better than the Bio100, lower SW, easy to move around, low power, less stiff. I couldn't stand the AG100 for long either.

    If I had to choose between the AG100 and the Bio100, I would give the Bio100 a better chance -- at least it's got more pop, and forget the feel. I can mod to make it right, somehow.

    BTW, you can't expect a "lesser-material" stick to feel as buttery as those with more material, isn't it?

    Just grab a 4D100 and be happy, c'mon .... hahahaha.
     
    #19
  20. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    OK, thanks again.

    So what about the AG100 couldn't you stand?

    If the Bio 100 swings heavier and has more power, I may like it better than the AG100 since I find the AG100 to swing too light and is very low powered. Do you also think the Bio 100 is more stable?

    BTW, it sounds like you like the 4D 100 better than both the AG100 and the Bio 100. Why?

    Also, have you ever hit with the Bio 200? If so, how does it compare to the Bio 100?

    Thanks.
     
    #20
  21. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    I demoed bio and 4d 100s before deciding to go with 4d. between those two I preferred 4d. difference was nothing major; bio felt a little more metallic and harsh, 4d more plush.
     
    #21
  22. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Same here. The AG100 was too light, way too light. I don't feel connected to the game, let alone the racket.

    Just like boramiNYC said above, the 4D100 is plush, not too high a SW, sort of "just right" and "well-balanced" (well, amongst the three, that is). You can lead it up here and there easily to make it suit you better.

    I haven't hit the Bio200. No comment on that.
     
    #22
  23. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    OK, thanks boramiNYC and anirut.

    I wonder how the Bio 100 would feel and play with a leather grip and some weight added inside the handle to make it more headlight? I have my AG100 weighted up to 12.9 oz. (3 and 9 and in handle) but it still swings very easily.
     
    #23
  24. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    If done properly things may be good. I've tried some weight on handle, leather grip, lead in the hoop, etc. and still couldn't come to terms with it.

    BTW, I haven't tried changing the strings yet. I play with syn gut. I should think the stick was designed to be played with poly. I'm not a poly fan so haven't tried it on the stick. IMO, it should work out well.

    The stick seems to play well with windshield wiper strokes. Playing it in stock form with classical strokes doesn't seem to work for me. I tried brushing instead and things seem to work better. It was much different that even my hitting partner commented that with brushing strokes my shots were much better.

    I'm not a looping shot player so I had to forget it.
     
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  25. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Hmmm...interesting. Did Dunlop somehow transform the 100 into a Pure Drive? LOL

    As you know, like you, I also have classical strokes so I'm assuming that the Bio 100 is probably not going to work for me, either? Is it just that the racquet is too stiff to use with classical strokes and driving through the ball?
     
    #25
  26. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    The stick ain't stiff (just like me ... HAHAHAHA). But something just doesn't seem right. May be if you make if hefty enough it may work out fine to an extent.

    Just get a 4D and forget the Bio.
     
    #26
  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I would but I absolutely hate the paintjob on the 4D100 but love the paintjob on the Bio100 (especially the lime green/black version). :)

    Does the 4D100 play substantially better than the AG100?
     
    #27
  28. anirut

    anirut Legend

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    Yes. Absolutely. I'd bet my right toe on that!

    When you are in the heat of the game, do you watch the racket or the ball? C'mon, you know it. Yeah, it's a psycho thing. I'm a graphic designer and, yes, I hate the PJ too. I call it the cockroach stick. But, so what? The PJ aint hitting the balls, right?
     
    #28
  29. KarmaKorps

    KarmaKorps New User

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    I have the Euro lime-green Bio 100 and the US BIO version. Their competitors (in my racquet closet) are:
    2 x 4d200 Tours
    1 4d 200
    2 x 2012 PDR+

    SW forehand, Alternate between a 2HBH and one-hander, and always on the lookout for a 1handed slice opportunity, because all of the above sticks are excellent for slice. They also rock on serve.

    The Bio 100 has a higher swingweight than the 4d 100. It's just physics that this equates to more plow. I have not played with the 4d100, but I can relate to one's preference for a softer/flexier feel from 4d, as I love the feel from my 4d 200s - they may be different sticks, but surely some of that comes from 4d. I play-tested the BIO 200T and definitely preferred the 4d version.

    The Bios have great feedback - some may consider this a harshness, or stiffness, but for me, it's this quality that gives me so much confidence to go for angles and/or change ball direction. I just feel as though there isn't an over-powered hotspot in the stringbed (obviously, there's not many hiding places for one in a 90 in frame). I'm very aggressive with the 100.
    Not sure if I would have appreciated the bio 200T demo with more time, for this same reason - however the 200T had a different weight distribution and static weight, so I feel the experience was more than just due to materials/construction/tech.

    My son plays tournaments and HS varsity, and gave up his Aeropro for the Bio 100. He's playing better tennis, more consistent tennis. It surprised me. He claims it's simply a sweeter stick, allows him to hit freely.

    I am extremely curious about the F100, and will probably buy one. For me, the ultimate mod would be to bring it up to 12.2 oz, resulting from stacking thin lead strips (underneath the grommets) at 9/3 and blue tac in the handle to preserve balance.
     
    #29
  30. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Thanks for the feedback. However, if you have never played with the 4D 100 then how do you know that the Bio 100 has a higher swingweight? The specs don't always tell the true story so only by playing with racquets can one determine how easily it swings and how flexible it feels.

    Also, can you please elaborate on why you prefer the 4D 200 Tour much more than the Bio 200 Tour?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
    #30
  31. acura9927

    acura9927 Semi-Pro

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    The Bio 200 on sale for 99 at TW is vastly superior to any of the 100s that Dunlop offered. Plow, feel, spin, ease of pace on serves.
     
    #31
  32. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    But what about for people who prefer 90 sq. in. and smaller frames?
     
    #32
  33. KarmaKorps

    KarmaKorps New User

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    I admit, I'm basing the 'plow' comment on the difference between the published swingweights (4d100 308 SW vs Bio100 323 SW). This would be under the assumption a play tester received a demo of each that measured out to spec. Given the same static weight, but higher swingweight, there should be more mass in the head, or high enough on the frame to notice a slight difference in plow. Not saying one is better or swings in a more desirable manner, I was just commenting on the potential to hit a heavier ball. I think it'd be slight. On the other hand, as we know, a lower SW might encourage or allow you to whip through the stroke faster, imparting more spin.

    The HL balance drop from 8 pts to 5 (4d to Bio) confirms the mass redistribution, but you're right, I can't claim to truly prefer the Bio over the 4d without actually playing both.

    As for the 4d vs Bio 200 Tour, the 4d has a noticeably higher (published) swingweight while weighing .2 oz less, although I gave up trying to notice a difference. Did the extra static weight somehow negate the drop in SW, making them both feel similar during the swing (pre ball-impact, I mean)?

    On groundstrokes, I felt there was a little more stability/solidity compared to the Bio, even though the 4d weighs less (all this assuming specs are accurate for the demo). And the 4d just felt a little more flexible, which isn't necessarily reflected in the 61 vs 62 RDC rating. How much did the string job/differences affect my experience? Maybe it accounts for most of the differences...
    The Bio 200T still hit big, though. I know for certain that a good set of strings and additional time would have been enough for me to adjust to it.
    It's just that the Bio 200T wasn't offering enough improvements (other than maybe kick-serves) to make me want to trade out my 4ds'.
    One thing I have to say, is that I have scared myself serving huge with the 4d 200T. With a live/loose arm, that racquet hits massive serves. Better than my PDR+, no question.
    That said, I also served really well with the Bio 200T demo, and felt there was a slight increase in kick on the twist-kickers... and with syn gut no less. The difference in serve between the 200Ts and 100 is what's making me want to beef up the 100. I get nice spin out of the 100 and great targeting, but I think more mass is needed to bring the epic heat.
     
    #33
  34. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Thanks for the additional info.

    I guess my point was that even if a racquet is measured to be precisely the published specs, it can still play and feel very different than those published specs may indicate. The problem is that those specs are measured by inanimate machines with no feelings and not while playing actual tennis. A person who is actually using that racquet while playing actual tennis may feel very differently about the swingweight and stiffness of that racquet. I know I've played with numerous racquets where the measured swingweight and/or stiffness was very far off from what it felt like when actually playing with the racquet. I've also played with racquets which played very "light" in static weight only to find out afterwards that they were actually pretty heavy when I put them on a scale or racquets that played very "heavy" but were actually pretty light when put on a scale. The problem is that the weight distribution of a racquet is not a measured spec (which is different from the balance). Anyway, that's why I take all published specs with a big grain of salt, as unfortunately, I've played with too many racquets that played very differently than what the measured specs would have predicted.
     
    #34
  35. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Professional

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    What are your thoughts between the difference of the Euro lime-green and the US Bio teal?
     
    #35
  36. Mister drool

    Mister drool Rookie

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    I think maybe i can bring some light onto this subject, as i owned both 4d100 bio100 and the mentioned k90.

    Both 4d and bio are stiffer feeling than the Wilson, that is a more plush frame, with more mass to crush the ball, but will tire your arm in an hour mark, more or less depending in your form.
    As for the dunlops, yes the 4d is a much better feeling racquet, more plush, you feel the ball in very hard shots, and it’s a bliss in touch shots, you get much more connected with what you are doing, but forget free power out of the 4d.
    The bio is a slightly more powerful yes, but not in a different universe way. I admit that the bio100 is the better performing racquet of the 2, great angles, like the 4d, great spin for a 90 sq inch frame, very manoeuvrable as well but for some reason in the balance of the frame I could not make that better performance of the bio to translate into better strokes. It has something to do with being disconnected from the ball, the feeling is just harsh everywhere, whether you are hitting a wining forehand, or a touch drop shot, it responses with the same stiff feeling al the time…
    As certainly your style of play is different than mine, I do not know what racquet suits you more, you may end up liking the bio more than the 4d, I had both, and sold the bio, but kept the 4d even though I don’t play with it very often.
    This sentence makes no sense, but it’s the god honest truth: the bio is the better performer on court and at the same time the 4d is the better racquet.

    Go figure…
     
    #36
  37. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Call me retro, but I just got an AG4D100.

    Back to that sweet precision and crisp feel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    #37
  38. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    This past weekend, I finally got a good hit with the AG4D100.

    Just like I remembered the old AG100: crisp, precise, great feedback, and responsive (think where you want it and there it goes). Nice solid volleys, and my 1HbH really clicks with this racquet.

    I put Black Widow 18g in the mains and Gosen OG Sheep 16g in the crosses. (Not the crispest, most responsive strings but very good spin and decent durability, I hope.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
    #38
  39. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    You should also try the Bio 100, if you haven't already.
     
    #39
  40. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I haven't. I had a Bio Max 200G for a time, but did not like the feel.

    Does the Bio 100 feel better?
     
    #40
  41. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Night and day difference. The Bio Max 200G is a completely different animal and plays nothing like the Bio 100. The Bio Max 200G feels stiff and clunky while the Bio 100 feels flexy and svelte. :)
     
    #41
  42. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Yep, exactly.

    Perhaps I should.
    (I certainly like the feel of the AG4D100. Is the Bio 100 similar?)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
    #42
  43. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Professional

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    Feel wise, yes, but the Bio 100 is noticeably stiffer but also noticeably more stable as well.
     
    #43
  44. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    That's odd.

    The TW stiffness numbers lists the AG100 at 61, AG4D100 at 62, and the Bio 100 at 61.

    Maybe it's the addition of HM6 Carbon.?
     
    #44
  45. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    The Bio 100 doesn't feel any stiffer than the AG100 to me. I prefer the Bio 100 because it has a more solid, cushioned feel to it.
     
    #45
  46. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Professional

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    According to those numbers I thought they were the same too prior having a Bio 100. But to me it does feels a tad stiffer but I also think the added stability makes it feel like so.
     
    #46
  47. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Added stability. That can't hurt.

    I am loving the AG4D100 right now. (Goldilocks syndrome + honeymoon period.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
    #47
  48. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Hit again with my AG4D100 today.

    Everything was landing in. Plus, awesome volleys--so crisp, so aggressive.

    Just got my AG300Euro (16X18 ) back with the same strings, i.e. Black Widow 18g mains and Gosen Sheep Micro 16g crosses.

    The AG4D felt a lot better, crisper, more demanding. The 300 felt okay with more margin for error but duller and clunkier.
     
    #48
  49. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Professional

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    You should try the Bio 100 as well. I have a feeling they will discontinue the 100 series.
     
    #49
  50. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    More solid.
    More cushioned.
    Added stability.

    I should try one.
     
    #50

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