DUNLOP AG 4D 200 vs. AG 4D 200 Tour

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TimothyO, Aug 26, 2012.

  1. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I know the paper specs on these two frames and currently use the 200 (18x20). Have also looked at the feedback and comments in this section.

    I have the chance to acquire a new 200 Tour cheap and wanted to ask other 200 users about the Tour.

    My favorite aspect of the 200 is its extraordinary precision, relatively low power, and ability to crush the ball.

    On paper the 200 Tour is even more stable than the 200. I have a few concerns...

    1. With its more open string pattern and extra heft is the Tour significantly more powerful than the 200? Or does the 95" head and soft flex mitigate that power potential?

    2. TW customer reviews mention the weight but many said it felt lighter than the specs. Is generating RHS a problem with this frame?

    3. How does control compare to the 200 18x20 veesion? I'm sure the 18x20 is probably more control oriented but I've tried some other 95" frames with 16 mains and they felt pretty good control-wise (eg the BLX Pro Staff 95). Is this a ball-sprayer or will it still satisfy a control freak?

    One review in particular caught my eye. The customer wrote an initial review about disliking the Tour having used the 18x20 version. He later posted an update saying that after spending more time with the Tour he decided to switch to it.

    What say you 200 experts? Is the Tour an unmanagable monster? Or does its slightly more open pattern provide a bump in spin potential while retaining precise control?
     
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  2. acura9927

    acura9927 Semi-Pro

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    I have the Bio 200 and Bio 200 Tour, the Tour to me is a freaking stick for the Terminator. The reason I bought it is to for when I face the big hitters and want to put some pace on the serve. I dont think I can go anywhere near 5 sets with it. If the 200 Tour is your only racquet you are one strong player my friend.
     
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  3. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    /\/\This/\/\

    OP, the inability to generate RHS was the only reason that I never liked my 200 Tour. Having useful plow through is one thing, but my Tour came around like a medieval mace and I never could boss it around for very long, much less use it over three sets. All my rackets weigh 12+ ounces, but the Tour was a completely different animal that I could not swing nearly as well as, say, a 13 ounce wooden racket. Just a very odd racket in terms of its swing weight for me. Mine may have been a dud frame. . .I only owned one and never replaced it but actually sold it for 20 bucks.
     
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  4. swfh

    swfh Rookie

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    i had the 200, and i hated it. it just didnt feel right in my hand. with the 200 tour, i feel like i have a solid, spin producing monster. I love the 200 tour
     
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  5. Hidious

    Hidious Professional

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    Although DeShaun compares the 200 Tour to something very heavy in several threads (a medieval mace in this case), my experience has been otherwise. It's not much harder to wield than all of my other 200s (Aerogel, M-Fil, Bio) and it's an amazing racquet. It hits the ball with more spin, depth, and power than the 18x20, volleys better IMO and the slice is just...oh my.

    On serve, i like the precision of the 18x20 better but i get more power with the Tour when i really invest my whole body into the flat serve.
     
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  6. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Let me put it to you like this. When I was using my AG200s and went to find a new frame, I demoed the 4D200. I demoed it for perhaps 15 minutes and then put it down because it felt like wood. I then bought the AG100 instead because I could get much more action on the ball. About a year ago when I decided I missed the heft of my AG200s, I decided to try the 4D200T. I demoed it for about 15 minutes and then immediately ordered 3 frames. It is truthfully that different from the 18x20, and also truthfully, I don't find it heavy at all. I've played with the MW200, HM200 and AG200, and the 4D200T is the only one that gives those frames the justice they deserve. The 18x20 version just feels dead in comparison.
     
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  7. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    And it is definitely in the 200 family as being a control oriented player's frame. Super stable at the net, generates spin with minimal effort, etc. One of my hitting partners on here, Teniludius, said something to the effect that when I did an "a-b" between the 100 and the 200T, it looked like I was actually having to swing the 100 to get the same ball as I could with the 200T. When "swinging" the 200T, the ball was just that much better.
     
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  8. The Dampener

    The Dampener Professional

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    The last two posts mirror my own experience.

    The one thing I'd like to add is that the 200T rewards good form and timing, but it's a little tricky if you have hitches or other extraneous motion in your strokes. So it's weight isn't an issue unless you're generally late with your strokes.
     
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  9. christo

    christo Hall of Fame

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    The 200 Tour is a lump, I bought one and sold it a week later.Even with a NG hybrid it felt like the flex was in the wrong place and the balance was weird, it was an expensive failure, I really wanted to like it but it didn't love me back.:confused:
     
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  10. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    Same here. I was so excited when I bought mine because I had heard so many glowing reviews about it, and Cheetah had prevailed on me to try a tweener and this frame seemed to be a widely held favorite. Mine must have been a dud or a production anomaly because it simply did not swing right in my hand--there was just something way off about that particular frame.

    Edit: disclaimer, I love swinging fast and big, so had I been in pvaudio's position I would have stuck with the 100 even though I can make the same ball for less effort with a 200T. I don't enjoy measuring my aggression on a tennis court but look for the earliest chance to rip the ball, and I can't stand executing the more successful style of tournament level play in which one works his tail off on defense only to patiently hit very clean ground strokes with a great deal of safety at very conservative targets all day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2012
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  11. Marcus

    Marcus Semi-Pro

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    The Tour reminded me of a more forgiving & more comfortable PS85

    Absolute Scalpel if you get your footwork / timing right

    Wilson take note this is what you could have made instead of that horrible Pro Staff 95 !!
     
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  12. sansaephanh

    sansaephanh Professional

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    Heavier rackets are good. I can't give them up no matter what. I picked up a pro tour the other day... Good god. I had to put everything into that ball my self. I couldn't groove with it at all.

    There is nothing like a 12 oz HL stick. There just isn't!
     
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  13. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Thanks all! As the price is so low I guess I'll give it a shot. These comments ecbo those in other threads and forums . I'm ok with hea ier swinving frames. They make certain demands but the benefits fwel great.
     
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  14. acura9927

    acura9927 Semi-Pro

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    I would like to see Dunlop offer a racquet in the 200 line that fits right in the middle of the 200 and 200 Tour. Seems one is too light powered and the other is too heavy with enough power. A 200 Tour Lite? Now that would make me very happy and I would be a one racquet owner.
     
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  15. T-ennis 888

    T-ennis 888 Rookie

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    To the OP, I have a AG4D200T (Aerogel 4D 200 Tour) which I alternate with a K90 most weeks. A close friend of mine with whom I hit with on a regular basis has a few A200 (Aerogel 200) and AG4D200 (Aerogel 4D 200) frames in his bag - I have tried his frames regularly as well as playing with my own Tour and my experiences with all three frames are listed below:

    AG200T

    Swingweight: the swingweight of this stick is the highest of all three mentioned. I am sure you will appreciate the pros and cons of this and I confirm both sides do apply, so I shall not go into massive detail here. I would not go so far as to say that it is a log but playing 4 or more sets does take its toll as I do find myself generating less RHS by that time.

    Strings: when I first received the frame I used a full bed of multi with it (Yonex Super Pro 850 Tour, 57.5/59). I always felt this set-up was not an optimum one for the frame and this was confirmed once I switched to a full bed of Dunlop Comfort Poly at 52/52. I once read a comment on these boards that the Tour was gagging for poly strings and I second that! It really brought the best out of the frame in every way: groundstrokes, serves, overheads and importantly volleys (the Tour is the weakest of the 3 sticks wrt to these) all improved dramatically. Bottom line, use poly strings in this frame (and this is from someone who is normally very cautious of using them due to having a sensitive shoulder and who firmly believes that we (club players), do not usually generate nearly enough RHS as the pro guys do to get the full benefit of poly strings). Also, the Tour is a wonderfully soft stick and I have never had a single day of pain after using it.

    Tailweighting: I found that the racket plays much, much better if you add a bit of weight towards the bottom – I use a ball of blu-tack weighing about 15g on the outside of the butt-cap of the racquet. On a side note it is very comfortable to let your little finger rest/curl around the ball of blu-tack when hitting with the stick. I know that other posters have also used a leather grip to tailweight this stick and many have reported positive results from doing so.

    Groundstrokes: clichéd though it sounds, the ball gets absolutely crushed with this stick – though in order to do so you must use full and technically complete strokes i.e. use the whole body and pay attention to your follow-through. I also own a KPS 88 (it’s a beast) and the Tour isn’t far off it with regards “ball crush”. With regards directional control, the Tour is pretty good bad but the AG200 (especially) and AG4D200 are both noticeably better (but they are closed rather open string patterns like the Tour so that is expected) but get your footwork right each time and you should be OK with the Tour.

    Volleys: this is a weakness of this stick when compared to the AG200 and AG4D200 which are both superb though I found using poly strings dramatically improved the frames ability to volley accurately to the point of it being pretty good.

    Serves: one word – outstanding. Just remember to let the weight of the racquet do the work i.e. don’t muscle the ball but swing loose and you’ll get the best from this stick. Everytime.

    Stability: I’m a real stickler for this trait and I can only report positively for the Tour. It is absolutely rock solid – nothing sent over the net from an opponent (wrt weight of shot, spin or pace) ever phases me with this stick. Slightly tongue in cheek, it is so damned good that you could likely deflect a blast from the Death Star with it!

    AG4D200​


    Swingweight: it swings slightly easier than the Tour but not as easily as the AG200.

    Strings: as I mentioned, my friend own a few of these – he has tried various hybrid combinations but usually goes for a full bed of Technifibre NRG1, 63/63 (I think) with these sticks. I have to say that I have never been keen on any of his preferred set-ups so perhaps other users of this stick could provide feedback for the OP.

    Groundstrokes: the stick does provide good weight of shot (more than adequate I might add for when you are playing competitive points) but the sheer “ball crush” you get with the Tour is not there. Directional control is excellent – the stick is generally very accurate and I find it particularly easy to vary depth of shot with.

    Volleys: a great stick for volleys - no complaints.

    Serves: not quite in the same league as the Tour but it has good directional control (though not as good as the AG200 which is outstanding).

    Serve returns: Also rock solid – but I just like my Tour better!

    AG200

    Swingweight/Tailweighting: my friend has 2 of these sticks. One, I definitely prefer over the other as he has tailweighted it (with a combination of leather and extra overgrips). In stock form, aside from a slightly lower swingweight and being slightly less maneuverable, the AG200 is not majorly different to its successor the AG4D200. My friend’s tailweighted racquet is very different and can justifiably be described as a revelation! Of the three racquets, it is by far the easiest to play with over a long period of time and it just does everything a (more than just a little) better than the other two.

    Strings: again, as with the AG4D200 I have no control over what my friend chooses to string his AG200’s with. With regard to the tailweighted stick, there is one-set up which time and again gives an incredibly sweet bed to hit with – Technifibre synthetic gut pearl, 61/61. I can’t say anything other than with a fresh bed of the stuff, the stick does everything so well that you feel that you could enter the Matrix and beat Neo with it in a match!

    Groundstrokes: similar to the AG4D200 and AG4D200T – only with the decreased swingweight and much better maneuverability, the tailweighted AG200 racquet not only excels but does everything better than the above two.

    Volleys: easily the best of the three sticks. My KPS 88 mentioned earlier is perhaps the best stick I have ever used for volleying. The tailweighted AG200 is at least close to or its equal for the dark arts of volleying.

    Serves: talking about the tailweighted version here - the best directional control by far of all three sticks, coupled to almost pin-point accuracy + it generates fantastic power too. All in all a truly amazing stick to serve with –Harry Potter would choose this over his wand if he could.

    Serve returns: rock solid and unshakeable – this seems to be a trait of all sticks in the Dunlop 200 series and something that endears them very much to me.

    Summary​


    To the OP, I hope the above is helpful to you. Of the three sticks I would rank my friend’s tailgated AG200 as my favourite of the three (I’m trying to acquire a AG200 myself at the moment actually!), followed by my own AG4D200T and then the AG4D200.

    I have never written a review of sorts in connection with any racquets and the above is nothing more than a rough collection of my thoughts on these three sticks which I wanted to share, as am able to play with them on a fairly consistent basis. I hope reading the above makes your choice a bit easier!
     
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  16. The Dampener

    The Dampener Professional

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    There you have it, Timothy—vastly different experiences. It all comes down to your proficiency, your conditioning, and your personal preferences.

    Only one way to find out for sure—try it, and see.

    Good luck!
     
    #16
  17. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Thank 888! Outstanding detail and very, very much appreciated.

    It sounds like some of the challenges one faces with the AG4D200 is present in the 200T but to an even greater degree.

    I must say moving from a mid to upper 11 oz frames to my current 12.4oz 200s has been a challenge but one that has improved my strokes since I can't "cheat" and muscle the ball as you say. My serves are far more consistent since I need to keep it smooth and loose.

    I too have a sensitive arm and while I've experimented with "comfortable" or "soft" full co-poly string beds they worry me enough that I stay away for routine play.

    Would something like VS Touch / Pro Hurricane Tour 16 work well in the AG4D200T? Or might that be too powerful?
     
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  18. T-ennis 888

    T-ennis 888 Rookie

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    No worries Timothy - I'm just glad you found the post helpful as I was a bit apprehensive about posting a review (of sorts) for the first time.

    With regards moving from the 200 to the 200 Tour - I honestly don't think you'll have a great deal of difficulty. Once you adjust to the Tour, you'll find you appreciate what it brings to the table very much. If you want my advice - just pick one up, string it well and start hitting!

    With regards the VS Touch/Pro Hurricane Tour 16 question - I honestly couldn't comment on this combo as I have only ever used a bed of full multi and full poly. Perhaps other posters who have used this or similar combos would be good enough to chip in. I would give it a go and see - but given that the Tour has slightly more juice than other 95's, do try stringing at higher tensions. As I mentioned, the Tour is freakishly soft and easy on the arm (just like all Dunlop 200 racquets I have tried) so I would not hesitate to encourage you to give a full bed of poly a try. My mentioned caveats of normally being reluctant to advise the use of such strings still applies, but you will likely be fine if you choose to try it.

    Do post feedback on the boards to let us all know how you get on. I look forward to hearing about how things go for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
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  19. PimpMyGame

    PimpMyGame Hall of Fame

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    I can't make any comparisons, but have tried to give up my 4D200Tour due to its weight and me possibly not getting enough RHS. Trouble is, I can't find anything that feels as good so I am still using them. I too am a lover of the solid feel and nothing seems to come close. Have decided to get fitter to improve RHS rather than switch rackets!
     
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  20. The Dampener

    The Dampener Professional

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    Very wise. Very wise, indeed.
     
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  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I have two Mfil200's that weigh just under 12 oz unstrung and a Aero200 that's over 1/2 oz heavier.
    Depending on exact strings, my Aero weighs in around 12.9 oz strung.
    I currently, and for the last year, play with Aero500's.
    When I think I'm feeling strong, the Aero200 comes out to play with hard hitters, but mostly for rallying with good players.
    The sub10 oz rackets are for playing against bad players, weak hitters, and all pushers.
    Since I seldom meet up with good players, the 500's are always in my bag, while the Aero200 is waiting for a phone call and setup before it jumps into my racket bags.
     
    #21
  22. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Hit with my new AG 4D 200 Tour yesterday. Liked it so much bought another one real cheap.

    Weight/SW wasn't an issue at all and spin potential clearly greater than the 18x20 200. Really enjoyed hitting kick serves with it. Heck, any serve was a lot of fun. Comfort was also great. Control not as good as the 18x20 but far greater than larger frames and their even more open string beds.

    So, no surprises really except for the fact that it wasn't quite the ponderous monster that some wrote about in the TW store customer feedback. It's certainly not as zippy as a 10 oz frame but nor is it a door stop. See the ball early and prep early and it's perfectly fine. It may even be better for one's form than lighter frames since it won't let you "cheat" by arming the ball.

    Had the first one strung with VS/PHT but will try VS/Zo Dart 16 in he second one.
     
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  23. basil J

    basil J Hall of Fame

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    Congrats on your selection! Great frame . enjoy it.
     
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  24. 10SDad

    10SDad Rookie

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    I've used Klip Legend 17/Solinco Outlast 17 in most of my sticks. I found it to be a bit too powerful in my 200T, as was NXT 17/Outlast 17. I definitely agree that a full bed of poly is best. I've got a history of TE and have had no issues with a poly bed on this stick. I have, however, found that my shoulder is developing some slight issues from serves. In fact, I just can't dial in my serves with this racquet, and I'm leaning towards giving the AG 4D 200 a shot or an older MG Prestige MP. I demo'd the Bio 200 and didn't like it at all after using the 200T.
     
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  25. christo

    christo Hall of Fame

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    Like I said in an earlier post there is just something way wrong with this frame and it's not the weight. It's the layup and the balance. The flex is weird and the mass is somehow in the wrong area. I love 12oz + frames and this was the worst playing heavy stick I have ever swung(and that's saying something!) And I had TW string it with a NG hybrid which cost a bunch! Even that didn't help.
    I am now happily married to the Head Prestige Pro, full poly, leather grip and overgrip, massive silicone injection in the handle and a small amount of lead tape at 10 and 2, very head light and just wailing on the ball.
    I have 3 that weigh in at about 13.1 ozs and because all the mass is in the handle they feel like flyswatters, no arm pain and no arm strain.
     
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