Eastern forehand players

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by 10isfreak, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    I am puzzled as to whether or not amateurs can generate some serious amount of top spin using some variation of the eastern forehand grip and if someone had video footage to show what it looks like.

    Of course, we do have a professional instance of what it can be turned into (Federer), but this pro also uses many micro-movements that we could only hope to see amateurs replicate entirely. I'd just like to see amateurs hitting with that grip.
     
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  2. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    not that many people i know hit with an eastern and can hit with topspin. I feel like a minority.

    i dont have any video though. perhaps there is video of college level players who have this grip/stroke combo.
     
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  3. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

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    Look at a video of a Sampras running forehand..he use an over the head finish a la Nadal using an Eastern Forehand grip. To generate "serious" topspin with an Eastern forehand grip, you need to have an exaggerated windsheild wiper motion.

    Generating topspin comes more naturally as you move towards Western grips. Driving the ball flat is easier with an Eastern. You can do the inverse with either grip, but it's a question of what comes easier.
     
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  4. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    I'll try taping my friend and myself hitting this week, he hits a very hard flat forehand and I hit with a lot of topspin.
     
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  5. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    My son hits with an E fh and he can kick balls up to my head and to the side at times. His form is not like Fed's. His prep has a good loop, not too big, but not Fed like either. The head drops below the ball at the bottom of the loop. He keeps his elbow more into his body as he swings to contact and I think his contact point is therefore a bit closer to the body than you might think (hard to tell from across the net). His arm is bent at contact. He gets a good relative motion up and across the ball. Both spin and pace are good, and he can flatten it out and rip through it when he wants. He probably should get the elbow a bit more away from his body, but I've noticed a lot the high school kids on his team have that similar elbow into the body form.

    I don't know if his grip has cheated much towards a SW - it's possible.

    Anyways, yes it can be done and you don't have to be Roger Federer to do it.
     
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  6. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    Does Haas play with some variation of the E fh too? He seems to present a slightly different style than Federer, but his hand is set in a rather conservative way around the handle.

    And thanks for the up coming video... I'd like to see how you deal with it.
     
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  7. isilra

    isilra Rookie

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    I prefer not to hit with a lot of topspin but i CAN generate enormous amount of topspin with an eastern forehand if i want. Sometimes i'm even surprised how i do that but sometimes the ball jumps over the head of my friend and he just can't hit it. The reason i don't use it is, i need to hit with a lot of power to make it an effective weapon against better players but i'm not ready yet for it.

    I will try to explain my forehand. First of all, you and your wrist need to be loose, otherwise you loose all the effect. I push the racquet with my left hand in a natural position and i pronate my forearm in a way that the racquet face shows the ground and the tip is towards somewhere between net and side fence. I let the gravity make the drop and when the racquet drops, i supinate my forearm back so the racquet goes back. The supination is started by the shoulder turn mostly, so it is a natural motion. I hit through the ball but i get a little under the ball so it gives you the net clearance. When i make the contact, i pronate my forearm again to give some extra spin to the ball and finish the stroke in a ww follow through.

    So i don't listen to anybody who says it's impossible to hit heavy topspin with an eastern forehand. If you use it in a traditional way, yes it is very hard but with some practice, you can learn the pronation-supination-pronation route. I used to have a semi western forehand but i like hitting topspin with a relatively flat trajectory, so turned to an eastern forehand.
     
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  8. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    I do it using an extreme eastern grip (although you can do it all the way up to a continental grip, really, you just get less spin potential). It looks a lot like the Fed/Nadal technique, just a lot less explosive than the actual pros obviously.

    I'd say I can probably hit at least as much spin as most guys playing with full western grips, but if I choose I can also drive the ball much more while maintaining good margin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
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  9. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    What kind of experience do you have with the game of tennis??? For a period of time, the eastern grip was more popular on the forehand than the semi-western. Countless players used it to hit topspin.

    If you play with older players who were taught to hit their forehands before the the semi-western grip was en vogue, you will see eastern and even continental forehands.

    Some younger players are using eastern grips as well, although they are not as common as the semiwestern. You achieve topspin with an eastern grip the same way you would, if you use a semi-western, you get your racket below the ball, and hit through the ball, making sure you have a full followthrough.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    My question is whether or not rec players and amateurs can generate moderate topspin without losing ball speed so their shots are ineffective and easy to get to.
     
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  11. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    Yes, but "rec players" is a very wide range. For the average 3.5, maybe not.
     
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  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    And for injured old farts like myself, not.
    I can hit a heavy RPM looper once in a while for effect (change of ball), but overall, hitting modern topspin strokes every ball is a losing proposition for my body. Just takes too many strokes to win a point.
    Better to slice into a corner repeatedly, and when opponent get's lazy, THEN hit the heavy topspin short angle shot.
     
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  13. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    If you want more topspin, but don't want to change your grip, focus on getting below the ball more, when you want a loopier shot. You will see players like Andy Murray do this all the time during rallies on the pro-tour. On his flat forehands he doesn't get below the ball as much. A shot he loves to hit is the cross-court roller. On this shot he really gets below the ball dramatically, it helps him hit that loopier shot that will dip more.
     
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  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Problem is, I hit forehands with a strong SW, almost full W, and heavy top is the normal spin I hit.
    Better than a SW or E for me, since those grips, I miss long AND short.
     
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  15. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    Ok, I thought in your previous post you said, topspin was too hard on your body. Now you're saying you hit heavy top. If you're using the right stroke mechanics it shouldn't be too hard on your body. You just drop your racket below the ball, get under it, and hit through the ball with a full relaxed follow-through.

    Do you have injury issues? With sound mechanics, topspin groundies shouldn't be putting a lot of ware and tear on your body.
     
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  16. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    Sounds like Federer's forehand.
     
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  17. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    I use an eastern,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5CrX6q-JEc

    Only some casual hitting on a wet surface, so not the best indicator for what youre looking for i guess
     
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  18. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    ^^ i remember that vid. yea.. very nice.
     
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  19. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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  20. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    I asked him tonight - Yep, still Eastern.
     
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  21. Venetian

    Venetian Professional

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    #21
  22. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    trying to generate a lot of topspin with E fh involves more manipulation of arm and hand and less effective use of the core. And/or preference of lowered contact point. at rec level it's entirely possible to have a viable E fh more focused on topspin, but as the level goes up I think a better E fh player will take advantage of the flat hitting of E grip.

    Also there's less stress on wrist trying to generate topspin using SW than E. So, a topspin oriented E fh player might have more chance of developing wrist problem later on.
     
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  23. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    yeah i've seen you before. good technique. let me guess..you modeled after Fed maybe? :) a very detailed copy i might add.
     
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  24. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Don't take this the wrong way, but I hate it when people suggest other people's strokes are modeled after the pros, here's why:
    1) It's entirely possible that individual can arrive at similar looking strokes.
    2) By suggesting that they copied some pros, you're discrediting them countless hours of hard work that went into the stroke from scratch.
    3) If it actually look like pros' strokes, then the player have done something right. Don't take that away from the player.

    I have the in-between grip, not quite eastern but not quite semi-western (some people call it the extreme eastern). I've been hitting my forehand the same way since I learned how to play as a kid (almost ~19 years ago :) ). Then Federer came to dominate the sport and now all of the sudden people say/ask if I copied Federer.

    I humbly say "no", but deep down I'm like: "Come on man, I've been hitting like this long before I ever saw Federer play on TV..."

    There's no hate here, I'm just saying before Federer came around, no one said a peep about my strokes.
     
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  25. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    lovely looking strokes. like the control on the single handed backhand, most people have poor form unless they're hitting all out on that stroke.

    thanks for posting this. Also, is that the 18x20 or 16x19 pattern stick?
     
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  26. boramiNYC

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    well I thought I was well meaning...hope amir doesn't get offended.
     
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  27. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    No hate here either but we all know he modeled his strokes after Fed. It's obvious. I'd bet a lot of money on it. No crime in that.
     
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  28. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    I take it as a huge compliment if someone tells me I remind them of Fed in any way. Whether I tried to copy him or not.
     
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  29. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    You definitely meant well! I probably came off wrong in the way worded my reply. But at the same time, I truly do feel that way.

    Haha, maybe he did? But I'd like to give the dude the benefit of the doubt. Copied or not, it's obvious the dude put in the work.

    It is a huge compliment, I agree. However, it still diminishes a sense of personal achievement (at least to me it does) whenever someone says: "Hey, you hit like (insert your favorite player here)".

    For example of the eastern grip/extreme eastern grip, just like every other grip, there are only so many ways to hit it. So yeah, most eastern gripper is going to have some "Federer-like" characteristic in their forehand. Unless you completely butcher it. In that case, just give up.
     
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  30. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    i don't see any other pro with the same grip as fed who has strokes even remotely similar to federer except dimitrov and we all know he copied fed's strokes.
     
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  31. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah my forehand as a teen was along the lines of a straight arm forehand and back then I obviously had no clue what was what. That was like 20 years ago now. I stopped playing for many years and recently took it up again a few years ago and have refined my strokes since then. The stroke ended up evolving to what it is based on what it was like as a kid but also taking cues from pros like fed and verdasco. I sought to improve my technique returning to the game.

    I'm not interested in imitating federer for the purpose of looking like him. I have actually switched to a 2hbh since that vid, again in an effort to improve my game. In learning the 2hbh technique I look to the pros and found that I feel most comfortable when I hit it along the lines of Murray's 2hander, so have been taking cues from his backhand. So if you can see the pattern, it's simply in search of improvement and to make the game easier for myself. It feels easier when my technique improves.

    That's the 16x19
     
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  32. Rogael Naderer

    Rogael Naderer Semi-Pro

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    What string do you prefer in the 16 x 19?

    I must add your strokes do bear a slight resemblence, but the effect they have on the ball is what counts, and the effect looks good, nice work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
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  33. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    I have over 6 years of playing now, although I do only play for 5 to 6 months period due to our colder climate here. As for your intervention, I am well aware of this fact... the problem is that I wanted to see something like Federer, but not from Federer: that is, someone who manages to combined the useful touch of a severe pronation around impact and a semi-open to or open stance with a rather conservative grip. I have seen footage of former pros hundreds of times, but it's from an other era: I need an adaptation of the eastern family of grips to a contemporary context.

    I know and I have played many older guys who used this grip. Back when I first learnt tennis, I picked it up with a classical eastern too and I am moving back toward a more conservative grip now.

    I am aware of how top spin is produced... I just wanted to see it happen, to get a feel for how different players hit with this grip.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
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  34. Venetian

    Venetian Professional

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    10is, did you take a look at the link I posted? I think the footage is what you're looking for.
     
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  35. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    I like using full tour bite 1.25 at lower tensions. Around 50 lbs
     
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  36. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    i used to have the same haircut when i was younger, but i didn't copy him... true story.
     
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  37. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    I'm full eastern and I can kill it with topspin. Hopefully the member I play Tuesday will tell you.

    I think it's just how you are trained, I have always been one handed eastern everything, and I can do it all, I mean it's no big deal probably because that's how I started from the beginning.
     
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  38. BevelDevil

    BevelDevil Hall of Fame

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    I read that Sampras actually hit with about the same rpm as Agassi, though I've heard some people criticize the original study.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/27/sports/tennis/27tennis.html?_r=0

    Furthermore, Pete doesn't even use a full Eastern. He uses a mild Eastern, towards the continental side.

    More than that, on his running forehand, he would change his grip even more towards continental.


    Interesting side note:

    I heard one announcer at Brisbane say that Dimitrov grew up modeling his game after Sampras (as opposed to Federer). Perhaps this is some lie that Dimitrov made to take away from the "Baby Federer" image he's probably sick and embarrassed of.

    However, it's an interesting possibility that two people may have modeled their game after Sampras and arrived at very similar looking styles, despite diverging significantly from the original model. Put another way: Perhaps the best way for a young, aspiring pro to emulate Federer is to first start off emulating Sampras.
     
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  39. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    Federer did have a bit of sampras about him as a teen

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U5rMXT2buw
     
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  40. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    Yes, I did. It was interesting, thanks.
     
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  41. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    janowicz has strong E grip and can put a lot of topspin but his main fh is pretty flat. keep in mind he's a very tall guy.
     
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