Econogut 101: How and What?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by alidisperanza, May 23, 2012.

  1. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    So I've continually seen posters lamenting about economy level natural gut snapping while stringing or prematurely breaking in the frame. I figured I'd post some input on the string and a type of "how-to"

    First I'm going to discuss the different types of econogut I've come across, then I'm going to share 2 examples of string jobs I've completed with pictures.

    Below are the different types of gut I've had experience working with in order of price:

    Babolat VS, VS Team 17
    Babolat BT7
    Prince Natural gut
    Babolat Tonic+
    Babolat Tonic Longevity
    Pacific Classic
    Titan Natural gut
    Gaucho Natural gut
    Gaucho Spider silk
    Mamba Premium Natural Gut

    Obviously there's a huge discrepancy between the high end of the list and the low end. Here's what you'll see as you go down the list.

    1. Change in consistency of gauge
    2. Chemical coating
    3. Resistance to change in weather
    4. Fraying due to coating
    5.Tension range

    The higher class guts will typically be one continuous piece while the econoguts often come in two. Likewise, Babolat is known for having impeccable gauge while econoguts can vary 1-even 2 gauges at different points in the string. Often times, this is the greatest cause for lament. Many times, the coating can be the source of the problem while other times it's the actual string. Whether for this reason or for others, econoguts should not be strung over ~56 lbs. If you need to string at 60#, you're taking a chance. Note, this is entirely possible as I've strung plenty of frames at 58-60lbs with these strings but I definitely don't suggest it.

    When working with these econoguts, it is pivotal to TAKE YOUR TIME. What majority of stringers don't realize is that these strings are not built with the same quality that Babolat, or other high brand names are and suffer from negligence. Another thing that most people don't realize is that everyone is falliable-- I took a set of Gaucho spider silk (a fairly sturdy econogut) to a very good and reputable stringer-friend of mine. This gentleman does 40+ frames a week and has strung for many of the top pros at world tournaments. There is no doubt as to his stringing "prowess." Even so, he did a terrible job stringing my frame simply because he treated the string as if it were VS. His determination was that the string was of poor quality and didn't believe that it could be strung "properly." Needless to say, he was surprised when I produced a frame using the other half of the set with more favorable results. In no way am I denouncing his ability; if anything, he's been a bit of a mentor. I'm simply expressing that it's a different ball game.

    On to the actual stringing. The first example I'll use is Gut mains and Polyester crosses. The strings that I chose to use are Mamba Premium gut 16g and Discho Iontec Black 1.25 crosses.

    What the strings actually look like:
    [​IMG]

    Stringing gut mains is pretty straight forward. There aren't really any major hitches other than taking your time and making sure the string doesn't get tangled and kinked. I generally make it a point not to preweave when using econoguts just because I don't like to put the extra tension on the string. I like to let it fall and turn and twist as it pleases. Go one by one and take your time. When pulling tension, make sure that you have your setting to the slowest available or that you crank/ drop weight slowly. The trick is to let the string stretch and relax on its own.

    [​IMG]

    There are a few options for dealing with poorly coated or dry gut as well. The first common practice is to wax your mains. Not only will this help mitigate the friction between the crosses when you install them but it will also help "seal" the gut a bit. I use a non-scented, non-colored house candle to do this. See the picture below.

    The other option, one which I have not tried, is to coat the mains with something else. I've heard different options were to use baby oil or even some sort of lubricant spray (silicone comes to mind) to help seal the gut and keep it flexible.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
    #1
  2. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Econogut continued-- only 4 pictures per page.

    The only real issue I had with the Mamba Premium gut that I strung was that the knots were very dry and wouldn't cinch properly. I intentionally used two different knots to show the difference when concerning a gut like this. as you can see, the double half hitch is a bit bulky and "sloppy" while the parnell knot cinches up neatly against the grommet. I feel like the latter is more appropriate for this type of string since you don't have to ratchet it down to get it tight. The knot will tighten up on its own without the extra effort and risk of snapping.

    Double Half Hitch:
    [​IMG]

    Parnell Knot:
    [​IMG]


    When you do string the crosses, again, take your time and don't rip the cross through the mains. Weave one ahead and make sure to use a high-fanning-weave. This will help reduce the friction on your mains and ensure that the crosses are set in a proper fashion. If at all possible, I try to tie off on a cross string at the side of the frame. Fortunately Yonex has a grommet prepared just for that.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ahh, the long awaited second part of this thread: stringing the crosses

    1.The way I like to start working with any gut product is to cut the bindings and let it hang naturally to elongate. I usually do this by draping it over one of my fan blades and letting it sit. Any other method works but this one works with gravity and is rather gentle

    2. I skipped over stringing mains-- It's not as relevant. Waxing the mains is an option as was shown above. Body safe oils work as well. I've heard Silicon spray is a third option but I tend to keep to the natural products.

    3. I STRONGLY advise using a starting clamp and tying off with a parnell knot here. The stress of making a barrel knot is terrible for cheap gut. Apply lotion/ oil generously for that part. In this instance I chose to use a barrel knot because I didn't have a clamp on hand. It worked but it wasn't pretty

    4. Once you have your first cross set, begin the process of "half-weaving." Lace the string through the grommet and weave ~4ish mains diagonally towards the throat of the racquet. Now STOP! Check to see if the string has twisted, kinked, balled up, etc. Gently pull the half-cross through until you leave a generous loop for tensioning (this comes into play because you always weave 1 ahead).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
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  3. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    5. Once the slack has been pulled through and you've left yourself a generous loop [I say generous because you don't want to get caught kinking/crimping the string in your tension head if there isn't enough slack] weave the remaining mains in a U shape. Fan, FAN, FAN! your crosses.

    Sorry, this one came blurry :(
    [​IMG]

    6. Continue 1-5 for the rest of the frame. As you progress, the strings will get twisted and turned and all sorts of chaos-- take your time and deal with each in turn. You'll also notice that it will get more and more difficult to pull the mains. Re-wax/oil your mains and be gentle with the string. Believe it or not, it's better to keep a little extra slack instead of cutting off the excess when working with Gut. First, it lets you get the string moving within the weave and second, you never know when you might kink a little piece and have to cut it off.

    7. Finish with a double half hitch or Parnell knot.

    Voila!
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
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  4. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    One last page reserved
     
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  5. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Terrific stuff, Alid. Thanks for educating ignorant stringers like me. I'm testing the uber expensive VS Team/0S hybrid (since I already have these strings in stock) to see if gut/poly will give me excellent performance with more comfort than full poly. If this combo works I want to find a more affordable setup. At further risk of exposing my ignorance: (1)How do the econo guts such as Mamba Premium Natural Gut(MPNG) compare to VS Team in terms of playability? (2)How is MPNG/ItB hybrid? Is ItB a good poly for cross? (3)I only know how to do double half hitch. How you do the Parnell knot? (4)Instead of wax or baby lotion, can you use hand lotion like Lubriderm instead?
     
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  6. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    So... should we flood this thread with nonsense until we get to another page? :)

    You hit it spot on. With econogut, you have to take your time. Also, I want to add that one shouldn't use a death-grip clamp. You don't want to overly pinch the gut and weaken it.

    Lastly, on the knots, OP is also spot on. I've gotten used to using the "Double half hitch", and with Mamba premium gut, it's really dry. My solution is to lotion up the remaining string so the strings can slide over one another, and do my knot.

    Also, I want to say something about Gaucho Spider Silk. If the string itself doesn't have defects, it's damn near indestructible.
     
    #6
  7. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I'm going to assume Mamba Iontec (salmon) plays the same as Mamba Iontec (black).

    My MPNG/ItS plays really well. I think Iontec compliment gut really well because it's really soft (I like soft stuff). As a cross, I think Iontec provides a soft stringbed, slightly crisper than a gut/Polystar Energy stringbed.
     
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  8. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Awesome job Ali.
     
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  9. xiaobo

    xiaobo New User

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    It is much better not to string econogut with full stringbed. Otherwise, its cross strings might be damaged due to high friction. I had no problem to string hybrid with Mamba guts and ItS, but full stringbed of Mamba supra gut was snapped due to damage of cross strings caused by high friction.

    Xiaobo.
     
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  10. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the post! I found it very interesting. Maybe it belongs under Stringing Techniques?

    I think I did a subpar job my first time around with the Mamba Premium/Iontec combo, mostly because of the gut kinking, but I did much better the second time.

    I was a bit surprised at your choice of the Parnell knot for the gut. I use the Parnell knot exclusively for poly because the double half hitch doesn't cinch up properly with poly, and it's so secure with poly that I can even use it as a starting knot. However, I found the double half hitch to be more secure for multifilament mains because the Parnell knots would slip. I use the JET pattern for my mains, which puts added stress on the knots so I need secure knots for my mains, and the double half hitch proved to be more secure for my multifilaments. So when I strung up the gut mains, I used the double half hitch. I also find the double half hitch makes it easier to take up slack in the string, and since I don't have to put my pliers on the loop to tighten it, it's not the end of the world if the string breaks on my pliers.
     
    #10
  11. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Questo thread รจ fantastico! :)
     
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  12. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Would just also like to add: you can get away with even smaller knots than the Parnell. I use the Wilson knot exclusively, and with Mamba Supra, tighten only by hand. It cinches itself up just perfectly, and hasn't moved a bit from being freshly strung as below:

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    PV, is that Supra Gut/Iontec or Iontec/Supra Gut? How do you like that setup compared to other hybrids?
     
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  14. wrxtotoro

    wrxtotoro Rookie

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    I use the Parnell Knot when I tie the gut on the gut mains. Hand-tie the knot only. Don't even use the starting clamp to pull. However when I tie the poly cross on the gut main (for some rackets you just have to...), I usually use the Wilson Pro knot as I think it will put less stress or friction on the gut when you pull it. And then a drop of clear nail polish on all knots.

    Instead of wax, I usually use lip balm to kinda lubricate the gut before I sting the cross. Simply less messy with white stuff all over the place.

    Then I leave the racket sit over night to let the strings set in place. On the next day, spray some heavy silicon on it for extra lubrication and protection. It's like $3 for a can from Walmart.
     
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  15. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    Great job. I'm glad you made good on your promise.
    I use the Wilson Pro knot myself.
    The Parnell is nice but my brain would've exploded if I had tried to keep the two straight. So I chose one.
    I have yet to find a client willing to spend the $$ even on Mamba Gut!
    So I bought a racquet.
    I may even learn how to play!
    It's a Prince O3 Red.
    We shall see how the Supra strings up on an O-Port.
     
    #15
  16. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    That's Supra/Iontec. I think it's fantastic. More muted than Performaxx/Iontec, but less pingy as well. It strikes the balance between the control of Scorpion crosses and the spin of CoFocus crosses. Tension stability is also right in between.
     
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  17. MambaT

    MambaT Rookie

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    subbed

    10char
     
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  18. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    that mamba gut looks all rough and dried looking. wonder if its cheap india made gut like the **** stuff.
     
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  19. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    1. I just hit my first 10 balls with it last night. I'll let you know the more I play and will be doing a piece on it in my usual playtest thread

    2. Runs along the same line as 1.

    3. There's a really good youtube video that I learned from with a demonstration as well. The basics are you go over the anchor string and through the loop you made like you normally would then you go over the main again and through the 1st loop you previously made. It will look a little bit bulky at first but you'll get it.

    4. I don't see why not. I've only ever experimented with simple wax because I don't know too much about the coating of the gut. I'm going to be playing around with some silicone spray in the future.

    Yup, I forgot to mention that in the op. Thanks, I'll add it now

    It's definitely more durable than the natural stuff they make but it plays a bit differently as well. There's a strand of what looks like multi in the middle of it.

    Not quite. Salmon is a bit more responsive. I'm not too sure whether it's the racquet or not but I remember salmon playing very nicely off the bat. I'm having a bit of trouble with ItB; it's not playing how I expect it when fresh. I seem to like it much better once settled.



    I thought about it too but I wanted to talk about the actual string too so I guess it can be posted in either.

    Thanks for reminding me, Kinking is a no-no with just about any gut. It compounds with econogut because of the coating. Babolat guts can kink and still remain a solid piece. Most econoguts actually separate the fibers when kinked

    Hmm. I guess it's just difference in experience. The double half hitch lets you ratchet down on the string quite a bit if you so choose-- the first loop will help you take up the slack as you mentioned. Depending on the string, the second loop may bulge out. I use the "Jet" method too but I haven't found any real issues with it. With everything except for natural gut, I usually tighten my knots just a hair with my crank-- I mean barely enough for it to cinch up and I haven't really seen any slipping.


    I'm not too familiar with the Wilson Pro knot but I'd be interested in learning it if you could shoot me a link via e-mail.

    Yeah, wax can get a little bit messy. I usually just stick a piece of paper underneath to catch the extra. I can see lip balm working well too-- I mean, it's designed to hydrate :)

    The Premium gut I tried from mamba is drier than the better brands that I have worked with but I don't think it's necessarily a "detriment." Yes, it's dry but it's also 15.00/set-- this is an "econogut" thread, afterall.

    For a string breaker, the cheap indian made stuff works wonders :)
     
    #19
  20. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    Ali, I think your recommendations and tips for stringing up an ECONO gut are on point. Taking your TIME and CARE are the main factors to help successfully make it through the stringing process.

    The main factor that I have concluded with using ECONO guts is not in the stringing process itself, but in the string itself. After all, I am assuming that these strings are the defective strings that didn't make it through the quality control section of the string manufacturers. There are lots of defects and imperfections that were not worthy of the instruments/rackets that they were initially intended for.
    "The trash of the GUT world" per se.
    And because they are the "trash"of the factory, the concluding steps of the processing isn't fully completed to the final product. Therefore, inconsistencies in the gauge, coating, and defects are common with these econo guts.
    Check out this video: at the 3:30min mark is what I am referring to.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCHkNko0OvI&feature=related

    And like many other industries, they just resell/recycle them to other companies to package and sell themselves with their own private label.

    Because of this, my main problems has always occurred when applying tension to the string and not the stringing process itself. Because there are already flaws and defects in the ECONO string, integrity is already compromised and the string just doesn't hold the tension and snaps. I have experience watching the string as it stretches and snap in the place where I think the string has a defect/weakness even as I try with all my might to be slow and careful. And there are times where they have made it through the stringing process, applied a lotion, wax or oil coating and the next day find my strings snapped in the bag overnight. (This is not a fun feeling after spending all that time and care to string it up)

    My conclusion after trying these econo guts is:
    They are like those "Grab Bags" you buy where you have no idea if you get something good or bad in them, but you take your risk in hoping maybe there is something good in them.
    I sometimes find a full set that I can work with, sometimes I only get 1/2 set I can work with, and sometimes I get nothing I can work with.
    So at the end, my cost that I am trying to justify by going the ECONO gut way, is no longer ECONO because if it costs me buying 2 sets just to find I only have 1 set that is decent, I would will be better off just
    using a higher name brand quality Gut that has a more true Gauge and quality. Lesson learned but it was fun.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
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  21. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    What does this post mean?
    Any chance you are going to give any feedback to the concerns of your customers regarding your products?
    And possibly clear up the econo GUT string industry and quality control?
     
    #21
  22. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Econogut would probably not be profitable for a pro shop. Obviously, they want to crank out as many string jobs as they can in a short amount time, and that can't be done with econogut. You can charge more for the labor, but then that defeats the purpose of cheap gut. Add to that the petty complaints related to visual defects and you have a no-win situation.

    I think most of us here who are buying econogut also string our own racquets. We recognize the visual defects but don't really care about it unless it affects the way we play. We also don't mind putting in a little extra time to do the job right if that's what it takes because stringing our own racquets is not something we do for profit. If someone asked me to string up their racquet with econogut, I would charge extra for the labor and they could take it or leave it.

    So far, I like the way it plays, so I'll keep experimenting with it for now. I think people who do their own stringing are going to be the main customers for this type of string.
     
    #22
  23. MambaT

    MambaT Rookie

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    This post means that I wanted to be subscribed to this thread so that I would see updates to the excellent job Ali is doing here.

    This is not an appropriate place to converse with our customers. These are TW's forums and they are gracious to allow discussion of us to remain. We will immediately address any concerns and support our guarantees to any customers who will contact us.

    Excellent quality and value is our number one concern. We are constantly working to find new product and improve what we already have.

    Unfortunately gut is an extremely expensive product to produce and it is one product where the price actually does reflect the effort and material selection that goes into a top shelf string. Economy products only achieve a lower price point by eliminating the material waste and extensive labor that is necessary to achieve high end results.

    That said, there is a place in the market for strings that meet the needs regular players at a lower price point, the same as there is a market for a Kia vs. a Lexus.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
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  24. MambaT

    MambaT Rookie

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    This might be the case with some brands, but certainly not always.

    All the more reason to deal with people who guarantee their product.
     
    #24
  25. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for your replies. Your customer service is great and if you do continue to guarantee your products, which you have with me, I am for sure you will find a good niche in the string market from this guarantee alone.
    Another big concern regarding your Gut product is the gauge thickness you advertise. As a customer, I expect a product that comes close to the product size that is advertised, if you know what I mean? Ie. If I were ordering a size small shirt, i would hope it would fit like a size small vs. a size large or extra large, thats all.
     
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  26. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ The description of the gut on the Mamba website mentions the gauge not being consistent. So it is basically saying, here is your cheap gut but don't expect it to be VS gut. You get what you pay for. As a customer, I like that information. Give me all the info and let me make the decision.
     
    #26
  27. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

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    Indeed. I prefer to know the truth about a product before buying it.
     
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  28. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Yeah but you know people are still going to be unreasonable and b!tch about it, which is silly. If the minor inconsistencies really get into your game, then you're looking for things to blame instead of playing and improving your game.

    Anyway, back to the thread. I can help sum up these econogut and what to watch out for.

    Gaucho: Their stuff tends to unravel with play.
    Mamba: Their stuff tends to be dry and stiff to the hands, but doesn't impact how it plays.
     
    #28
  29. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I measured the string factor of Mamba Premium Gut on RacquetTune. The default string factor for 1.30mm gut is 1.79. My measured string factor came out to be exactly 1.79. By this measurement, based on sound frequency, my sample seemed to be spot on. I will admit the thickness seemed inconsistent, and I had to make diagonal cuts on the string to get it through the grommets, but the string factor measurement seems to indicate that the gauge is accurate. My guess is that the number of fibers needed for 16g is accurate but processing produced inconsistencies that made it seem thicker than a more consistent product.
     
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  30. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    Please provide me the link where the website basically says what you said above because I cannot find where it says, "here is your cheap gut but don't expect it to be VS gut. You get what you pay for."

    As far as I can find, Mamba describes their product as:
    http://www.mambatennis.com/supra-natural-gut/

    Product Description

    Supra Natural Gut - NEW LOWER PRICE!!!

    An excellent Sheep Gut product with all of the advantages that you expect from Natural Gut.

    Natural Gut is the king of all tennis strings, offering unsurpassed comfort, control, and even spin. Traditionally, though, it is considered too expensive for string breakers and subject to humidity and other weather conditions that can cause its natural fibers to wear prematurely.

    Supra Natural Gut is a high quality product at an excellent price point. Use it full bed or as a hybrid with our other strings.

    Try it as a main string with Iontec or O-Power in the crosses at 54/52 lbs.
     
    #30
  31. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    If you can't make the connection from "inconsistency gauging and etc." to "not as good as brand name gut", you don't know enough about gut to playing with them in the first place.
     
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  32. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    It's called advertising and marketing. It's not unethical. I think all of us expect that. $22 for high quality sheep gut? C'mon, we all know better than that!
     
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  33. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    No link shall be provided since it violates TW forum rules. Just dig a little and you'll find my exact words.
     
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  34. wrxtotoro

    wrxtotoro Rookie

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    They have two type of Gut: Premium and Supra. The Premium mentioned the inconsistency while the Supra basically say it's a great gut.

    I just ordered a few sets of Bow Brand from Britain and just pray that they will withstand the shipping and handling process. TW, please carry Bow brand again!!!
     
    #34
  35. flume

    flume New User

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    Where does Klip Legend fall in this list for quality per cost?
     
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  36. wrxtotoro

    wrxtotoro Rookie

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    Between Pacific Classic and Titan in IMO.
     
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  37. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    I can't necessarily agree. The econoguts I have worked with have all been different from the top end. I'm not quite sure which brands you're referring to but I'm fairly certain that Gaucho and Mamba are their own productions. Some say Tonic is a "lesser" VS; I don't think this is the case with EconoGut. I can tell you for a fact that the coatings are different. Mamba, for example smells like nail polish haha.

    Also, from what I understand, many of the Bay offerings are more along the grab bag style. To date, the only set of gut I've ever popped while stringing was a really, really, old prince set that my boss gave me. I was using a new machine and accidentally brushed the "knot" button and the tension spiked all of a sudden pulling the gut at an odd angle. The only other set of gut that's prematurely popped on me was a set of Titan natural gut. I strung it up fine, it managed a day in my bag fine and popped while in my bag sitting in 100 degree weather on court. I understand your concern with the gauge issue and potential pops while stringing but I always make sure to run the gut through my hands and inspect what I'm stringing with first. I haven't had any thinning issues yet but if I would and didn't feel comfortable, I would contact the company before stringing it. Many companies are happy to help out. With Mamba, I know Ray is outstanding with the feedback and response.

    Ultimately, it's up to the consumer and they deserve products that match up to their standards. For those that are more particular, spend the extra 10.00 and buy something in the 25.00 range from a reputable company. For the rest of us, well...we make due with the good and the bad :)


    While I WISH I could get my hands on the Racquet Tune app, I don't really think that sound is the appropriate way to measure string gauge. I'll take my digital calipers to the other half set I have to measure thickness for the Mamba Premium; I totally forgot to do it the first time.

    Also, I didn't have any issue at all pulling through grommets on the half set that I strung up for this thread. The only resistance I had was when I went to tie knots-- It really wasn't an issue though.
    Klip Legend belongs right under Babolat Tonic at 26.00 as per TW. From what I understand, it's a rebrand for Volkl V-Icon as well.
     
    #37
  38. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    Please keep the discussion to econogut and anything related to the stringing. I really don't want to see another thread devolve into a mindless back and forth. The purpose of this thread was to inform the average user about the differences between the cheaper guts and the higher grade ones and how it will affect their stringing and the effects that it will have on their game.

    Thanks
     
    #38
  39. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Alid, obviously stringing Econogut is more time consuming and difficult. But once in the racket, can most non-ATP players tell enough of a difference between a VS/Wilson/Prince type of top level gut and Econogut like MPNG/Titan where it affects their play? Or is the difference negligible?
     
    #39
  40. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    That's one difficult request to fulfill on these forums. Half of these people listen and write only what they want to hear. The other half will go out of their ways to write something completely irrelevant to showcase their own "brilliance".
     
    #40
  41. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    Exactly, I am referring and using the Supra not the Premium.

    I am referring and using the Supra not the Premium.

    I am referring and using the Supra not the Premium.

    When did I say anything about unethical? I am just requesting that I get a 17g string and not a 16g/15g. Especially if there is already a 16g option.
    I have already a few people comment on how thick the string is.
     
    #41
  42. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Hmm, that's a good question. My answer would be Yes. If strung side by side, there's a marked difference in the way they play. I think the most noticeable difference is the elasticity and pop that each of the strings produce. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that it's the different coatings used for the strings.

    Having said that, 15.00 Econogut still plays better than the most expensive multifilament (In my opinion).
     
    #42
  43. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I agree.

    Wilson K-Gut, a one time premium multi plays nowhere near econogut.

    The next question people should ask themselves is, especially those who are skilled and patient enough to string their own econogut, is the extra $20-$30 worth it?
     
    #43
  44. AC Tennis

    AC Tennis Rookie

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    One difference

    One difference between the top level gut and the econogut is the tension at which it can be strung. top level gut will let you sting it at 60lbs and a bit above. Econoguts will usually recommend not stringing above 55lbs.

    On a side note, I agree with everyone that Ray at Mamba is excellent on customer service. I got two sets of the Mamba Premium gut. One I strung up with no problem and is still playing great. The other snapped while stringing and Ray said he will replace it no problem. I couldn't ask for more.
     
    #44
  45. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Updated the Crosses section.
     
    #45
  46. sequoia

    sequoia New User

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    goucho strings where to buy

    Hi ,

    Wondering if any one knows where to buy Goucho Strings the Silk looks very interesting .. wondering what durability is like ...

    Seems like their contact info on their web site is gone.. guess that tells you something....

    Thanks

    Larry
     
    #46
  47. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    Larry,

    I haven't purchased from Gaucho in quite a while since I've sourced VS for pretty cheap. I also haven't played gut in a while since I've been popping more frequently.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more service. Check out Mamba Tennis . com. Their gut was pretty solid last I played it, I could only hope that it's improved it since I've played it.
     
    #47

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