Ellbow pain only when serving! No other issues?!

[phl92]

It seems like I am spamming this forum since I just posted in another thread about an other issue I am having currently, but it is something which really bothers me.

I will try to tell everything which could be related to it, so maybe someone could identify this with himself and help me. In case you don't want to read all this, you could still help me replying to my two questions at the very end of this post.

I am playing no matches atm, but just hitting 2-3 times a week with hitting partners for a total of 4-6hrs/week. I started only in January this year, that I got back to 'real' tennis and the desire to improve my technique. So I found out, that the way I was serving is not efficient and powerful at all (pancake grip) and was trying to learn mostly from YT tutorial how to make the switch to a continental grip. It was really hard and I had no real success. To this time I also bought a new racket (WIlson Blade v7 18x20) which eventually turned out to be not the right racket for me (too much SW to handle), but for my FH and my serve this racket gave me real power. So my serves with this quite head balanced racket gave me a lot of more power and I was practicing my 'new' serve with probably not a very good technique. I remember one training session back in maybe January/february where I was serving quite a lot (maybe around 50-70 serves) and I started to get really sore in my ellbow/forehand area. Suddenly there was quite a big pain there in this area, but I cannot remember if it was on a serve or from a frame hit on a big swing FH. The pain was acute and I thought some minutes that I have to stop the hitting session, because it felt like something in my arm broke. But still I was able to continue the hitting session and my groundstrokes were not really affected by the pain. After the session the pain was also almost not noticeable and I cannot remember having had any issues the next days or next hitting sessions. (But I do remember it still it happened!)
After this occurrence I was not serving on a regular basis and then there was the quarantine without tennis for almost 3 months...
I trained 2 times my serves in a park (lot of shadow swings, sock swings and also with a ball) and I remember that the first time I developed soreness during and after it. I couldn't really use my arm for 3-4 days after it. I thought it was natural because I was using a new technique/grip/movement and I overdid it. After quarantine in mid may, I was again serving on a court and felt a strange pain in my ellbow when hitting the ball on serves. It was not a terrible pain but quite enough to stop wanting to serve a lot. The harder I tried to hit a serve the worse the pain. The pain is located in the centre of the right ellbow, like somehow inside of it. I can also feel it when I do a fast movement from an bended arm into a total stretched arm. Like the same when hitting a serve actual. This feels kinda strange. However though, having said this, I do not feel my ellbow when hitting groundstrokes.
After this session back in may, I tried another time 1 week later and the same thing occured again.
So I thought something is really wrong and decided to stop serving for some time (I am not into matches atm anyway).
In the meanwhile I made the switch to the Ezone 98 and I had no issues with it at all (but I never served with it since today)
Today was the first day I was serving again, (around 2months since last time) and I was trying to warmup with shadow swings, and very low intense serves. But even there I could feel. The 2-3 serves I tried to put more effort in it and I could feel the exact same pain again. And again, this issue is not affecting my other game at all, but even now after the session I still feel it a bit when making fast stretch/bending movements with my right arm.

The questions I have for you:
Since I only heard and read about Tennis Ellbow issues... is this a TE ? I do not have pain writing, using my computer mouse for hours, working out in gym with weights (benchpress, dips etc.) but my serve is feeling naughty painful when hitting. Is there a test which can confirm/deny whether its a TE issue or not? In case anyone of you had similar issues, is there a other thing what to do?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Did you look at GE, golfer's elbow? This is a problem more commonly associated with the serve than TE. It should be relatively easy to find images that show the locations of TE and GE.

Quite often, GE arises because the player applies too much grip pressure to the racket handle. This is a common problem with novice and intermediate players. For the most part, you should be fairly relaxed when holding the racket. If you have a relaxed grip most of the time, your brain will naturally firm up the grip a bit when the racket is accelerated just prior to contact.

 

[yossarian]

It seems like I am spamming this forum since I just posted in another thread about an other issue I am having currently, but it is something which really bothers me.

I will try to tell everything which could be related to it, so maybe someone could identify this with himself and help me. In case you don't want to read all this, you could still help me replying to my two questions at the very end of this post.

I am playing no matches atm, but just hitting 2-3 times a week with hitting partners for a total of 4-6hrs/week. I started only in January this year, that I got back to 'real' tennis and the desire to improve my technique. So I found out, that the way I was serving is not efficient and powerful at all (pancake grip) and was trying to learn mostly from YT tutorial how to make the switch to a continental grip. It was really hard and I had no real success. To this time I also bought a new racket (WIlson Blade v7 18x20) which eventually turned out to be not the right racket for me (too much SW to handle), but for my FH and my serve this racket gave me real power. So my serves with this quite head balanced racket gave me a lot of more power and I was practicing my 'new' serve with probably not a very good technique. I remember one training session back in maybe January/february where I was serving quite a lot (maybe around 50-70 serves) and I started to get really sore in my ellbow/forehand area. Suddenly there was quite a big pain there in this area, but I cannot remember if it was on a serve or from a frame hit on a big swing FH. The pain was acute and I thought some minutes that I have to stop the hitting session, because it felt like something in my arm broke. But still I was able to continue the hitting session and my groundstrokes were not really affected by the pain. After the session the pain was also almost not noticeable and I cannot remember having had any issues the next days or next hitting sessions. (But I do remember it still it happened!)
After this occurrence I was not serving on a regular basis and then there was the quarantine without tennis for almost 3 months...
I trained 2 times my serves in a park (lot of shadow swings, sock swings and also with a ball) and I remember that the first time I developed soreness during and after it. I couldn't really use my arm for 3-4 days after it. I thought it was natural because I was using a new technique/grip/movement and I overdid it. After quarantine in mid may, I was again serving on a court and felt a strange pain in my ellbow when hitting the ball on serves. It was not a terrible pain but quite enough to stop wanting to serve a lot. The harder I tried to hit a serve the worse the pain. The pain is located in the centre of the right ellbow, like somehow inside of it. I can also feel it when I do a fast movement from an bended arm into a total stretched arm. Like the same when hitting a serve actual. This feels kinda strange. However though, having said this, I do not feel my ellbow when hitting groundstrokes.
After this session back in may, I tried another time 1 week later and the same thing occured again.
So I thought something is really wrong and decided to stop serving for some time (I am not into matches atm anyway).
In the meanwhile I made the switch to the Ezone 98 and I had no issues with it at all (but I never served with it since today)
Today was the first day I was serving again, (around 2months since last time) and I was trying to warmup with shadow swings, and very low intense serves. But even there I could feel. The 2-3 serves I tried to put more effort in it and I could feel the exact same pain again. And again, this issue is not affecting my other game at all, but even now after the session I still feel it a bit when making fast stretch/bending movements with my right arm.

The questions I have for you:
Since I only heard and read about Tennis Ellbow issues... is this a TE ? I do not have pain writing, using my computer mouse for hours, working out in gym with weights (benchpress, dips etc.) but my serve is feeling naughty painful when hitting. Is there a test which can confirm/deny whether its a TE issue or not? In case anyone of you had similar issues, is there a other thing what to do?

There are tests to distinguish between golfer's elbow and tennis elbow. Along with palpation and location of the pain, look up Mill's Test and Reverse Mill's test, resisted middle finger extension test, and Cozen's test

A lot of these things can be figured out if you know the motions that the muscles perform. If you have golfer's elbow, you'd expect resisted forearm flexion and passive elbow extension into a stretch to be painful. With tennis elbow, it would be resisted elbow extension and passive elbow flexion

Those are just tendinopathies. It's also possible to have a ligament issue like a UCL sprain. There are tests to rule that in/out but you probably couldn't self diagnose that

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Sorry OP, but I did not actually read your novel (extremely long post). My eyes are in pretty bad shape and I'm not able to read a wall of text that without considerable eye strain.

GE & TE are the most common problems at or near the elbow for tennis players. But these are certainly not the only possibilities. You could have bursitis, a biceps tendon issue or something else. Note that both GE and TE are felt in the forearm just a little bit below the elbow. Here are the approximate locations of each:

 

[phl92]

Thank you for your posts also in the other thread. Here its very late and I read this from bed but I will do these self diagnosis tests tomorrow. From what I read now its more likely a GE as you said and not a TE. Also a bursitis would match the describtion.
I definitely have problems with my grip... I have very large handy (seemy other threas I started last week XXL hands) so using a L4 with 2 OGs makes it kindA acceptable but I still catch myself gripping to tight. I guess my grip has a lot to do with ny issues Overall

 

[phl92]

I was not able to execute all tests alone today, but I am tending to say that I have no issues with an GE or TE (ofc I have to the tests properly). I do have problems on my left arm with biceps tendonitis for many years, and if I overdo it in gym this makes problems with my left shoulder. However, on my right side I do not have this issue. The bursitis shows normally an infection with a swelling part of the ellbow visible. I do not have any warm or swollen parts.
PRoblems with the Triceps fiber is also not very likely since I can make pushups without any problems.
Again, the only motion which is painful is the serve motion. Even today I can reproduce the pain by getting from a bended arm position into a stretched one very fast.

 

[tennisBIEST]

Make sure you’re using an actual Continental Grip(base of index knuckle on bevel 2) I see elbow injury’s specially on serve when players are in eastern and semi western grips and are trying the add spin to their serves. Creates a ton on torque on the elbow. Have a teaching pro take a look.

 

[phl92]

Hey guys, I tested with my wife just all kinds of self tests for GE and TE. All negative, I have no issues at all doing them.
I also think that my technique is way wrong and caused/causes that! When I was pancake serving I had no problems at all!
I was also acting quite reasonable, after having experienced it twice in May stopping to serve for more than 2 months should be enough time to cure some little tendonitis.

I really think I am doing something really wrong on my serve. I actually indeed have only a 'weak' continental grip (between continental and eastern) on my serve because a full continental feels really awkward.
I would like to have a really good trainer have a look on my serve unfortunately I do not know really good trainers in my country.
Do you think buying a tight bandage around my ellbow would help?
//edit: IN case the technique is causing my issues I know that wearing a bandage around my ellbow wouldn't help me. I just thought as some extra stabilization it would be beneficial to wear one, however I just saw that they are quite expensive

Here is an image where all different parts are visible: I would say my pain lays somewhere between the Bursa olecrani and a bit higher sideway up. I can reproduce a bit of pain by holding up/shoring up bended on my table and put my weight on my ellbow. This feels a bit uncomfortable,

 

[phl92]

I know eventually only a doctor can give me Security on what I have but I write here anyway, maybe someone sees that with the exact same symptoms and can help or maybe its just a log for myself.

2 days ago I took finally some trainig session with a trainer for my serve. I didnt expect anything cause I didnt kbow any trainer of this club but I really liked it and I can say it helped me already. We started from scratch and after some tossing and throwing drills without racket we were serving with the racket starting already from the racket drop position. And wow, I must have done a ton wrong, because I hit from this position a lot of quite powerful (much more powerful than my old one from the full serve Motion). I also figured out that sometimes when hitting the ball I do some strange things so that I end up hitting the ball too much slicing. This is also then when I have pain in my ellbow. So I am saying my ellbow problems comes from a wrong technique. Of course in the whole session I hit some badly and I eventually had a bit of an ellbow pain.
Right after the session I also joticed that the most painful for my ellbow is having it bended and putting something heavy over my shoulder like a packbag. Or undressing myself of a t-shirt.
I also feel a pain when I prop/shore up my ellbow on a table in a 90° angle of my underarm. Then I feel quite a pain in the outside of my ellbow joint. Now I can really exclude any muscular tennis/golf arm problems.
I just came home from a gym session and I tried to train my triceps to see how this feels. First I wanted to do some skull crushers (triceps extension with a bar) but even lightweight made my ellbow a bit pain (nothing crazy but in the lowest position I felt it clearly). Then I stopped immediately and tried some cable extensions and this didnt hurt at all, and even felt good after some sets. Now after the training my ellbow feels very good, smoother than before.

I am going on vacations on friday and I decided to leave my tennis racket at home and to let my body heal for the next 2 1/2 weeks. From then on I will see a doctor except the pain magically disappeared meanwhile. My Gym session today also gives my an assumption that I have this problem already a longer time and I just didnt notice because I had a long from tenbis before. I remember recalling this kind of pain while doing skullcrusher already 2-3 years ago.