Emira Stafford .....

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by willshot, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    I've been watching this girls videos and found that she is going to be an amazing player down the road. I don't think she's played any tournys yet but hope to see her results in the future.


    Here's one of her videos. There are plenty more of you search.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AswCuYZv8uU
     
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  2. g.hull

    g.hull New User

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    i personally cant tell just from videos. good looking strokes but who knows what will happen with another person on the court...
     
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  3. southerncross

    southerncross New User

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    I've been following Emira on Youtube for a year or two, and am mystified as to why she's not played matches, yet. Surely the desire to play tennis is about the game itself. Otherwise it's a sad mix of parental ambitions, fear of the real risk of failure (where all the real learning is done on the court) and the inevitable result she ends up a mechanical player without a mental game. You can be sure Federer, Murray and Nadal played tournaments first, and endured a regimental coaching regime later, to better their game. I would place every cent I had on Emira not making it while she's kept in her barn hitting balls like a back-firing ball machine. She obviously has great talent, but so do thousands of other juniors who never 'make it', because their mental game was stunted by over-protective and/or over-ambitious parents avoiding matches they never wanted their 'puppets' to play.
     
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  4. ofcr17601

    ofcr17601 New User

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    the next female roger????

    As others on this site have pointed out before, there are hundreds of these you tube phenoms ' the next Venus and Serena, the next female Federer and on and on. Give me a break, until they experience match competition and all that goes with it, the emotional roller coaster. Facing opponents with a refuse to lose attitude, raw talent and addressing different shots that a coach feeding standard balls in a (at least) controlled environment can't duplicate.

    I don't care how astute the guy sounds on the video with all his tennis philosophy, everybody gives the same advice to their kid in one way or the other, its what they have on the inside that counts.
     
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  5. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    I think holding off on competition a little longer than most juniors might be a good thing.

    I think many juniors get burned out before reaching anywhere near their maximum potential in the overplaying of pressure tournaments at a young age.

    Who is to say this girl is not playing competitive matches that her coach sets up?

    Anyway, her follow through looks weird to me....but I'm just a tennis mom, not a coach.
     
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  6. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    Who ever said anything about "making" it. Define "making it"??

    Regardless of tournys results, she's got some skills.
     
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  7. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    lol Easy tiger... She's only 12 so I think she has some time left in her. Also I read that she does play practice matches with local college girls. I know its not the same but atleast its not 100 percent fed balls like you claim. Everyone seems to know everything but we see nothing.
     
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  8. tennis-silver

    tennis-silver Banned

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    Her strokes look too mechanical. Reminds me of something TCFL said one time, something like - just let the younger kids play and have fun and they will naturally develop good strokes and footwork and then add in proper instruction to work out the flaws. She just seems too stiff and programmed.
     
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  9. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    This is a great example of that stiffness that kids can fall into. But to be fair, we can't judge Emira from this one video as she may just be working on her form.This little girl has been coached very well to do everything correctly on the forehand. No doubt she has great basic form. Now I will post a video that tenniscrazed has posted before. A girl about the same age.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKBiKoantk&feature=related

    Getting Emira from what she is doing in her video to being fluid and moving and being intense enough to compete with girls like Shiskina is the big step. By the way Shiskina has improved her backhand a ton now and seems to have gotten past that push she had in this video.

    I would love to see a video of Emira in a movement drill to see how she translates her basic form into a situation more like real tennis. If she is a great mover then she can work past the stiffness and become a very nice player.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
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  10. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Patella bands on a girl at 12... ouch. Retirement by 18?
     
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  11. ofcr17601

    ofcr17601 New User

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    Hi I don't want to get into a back and forth dialogue with you, that's why I prefer to sit back and read all these post and not reply to them. But I guess I kinda got fed up with all the next Serena and Venuses out there and I apologize. I'm not a expert on junior tennis not even close. But it seems as though accomplished junior tennis girls, Brook Austin, Mayo Hibi, Carolyn Xie, Gabrielle Andrews, and Christina Makarova don't see the need to post themselves on you tube and claim they will be the next female Roger Federer. I don't think there is any thing wrong with it. I really cant criticize a parent or coach for doing what he or She thinks is best for their kids. We all agree she has a lot of time as well as the aforementioned girls, but don't you think a fair asessment would be if she had some results in junior competition?
     
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  12. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    Again, who said anything about Serena or Venus? Also have you even seen Serena or Venus when they were 12??? Not even close to the same player they turned out to be.
     
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  13. ofcr17601

    ofcr17601 New User

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    Hi TennisCoach I respect your opinion and advise on junior tennis. But don't you think at some point in all this character counts. Maria Shiskina shakes her fist and and shouts at her opponents nearly after every point. She questions obvious line calls made by her opponents and gets involved in verbal arguments with referees. One reviewer posted here we go again another obnoxious tennis kid. This type of behavior his taught by Coaches, Parents and institutions. I observed her Mother and Coach enthusiastically encouraging this type of behavior. May be I'm going overboard , but I think every thing is relative as in life. Sports don't make character, they reveal it. To be honest I don't respect the Coaches, parents and institutions( Nick Bolleterri) that teach this type of behavior.
     
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  14. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    James Blake has a super stiff looking forehand. But a good one. Not everyone hits like Roger Federer btw.
     
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  15. jmdlaw

    jmdlaw Banned

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    We can post many videos of young players and say this one does this good and this one does that good. Shishkina is no doubt a great player but Emira looks to be more of a natural athlete etc etc etc . Also - I saw the Shishkina girl while visiting IMG twice and although she is a good player - too much defense for my liking. Also really no pace on the ball. Tornado Black hits with much more pace than Shishkina. But again - they are young and more likely that none of them make it to the next level. This Shishkina girl may also have head problems later. According to many of the coaches I spoke to there, she has a reputation for cheating and is very full of herself. The mother is a nut bag - I watched her many times screaming at her while she was on the court. Who knows right?
     
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  16. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    There's this girl about the same age who won a 16's designated tournament in SoCal last month. Her name is Carolyn Xie and she plays a 1H BH. Yet I can't say I've ever seen her name and Fed's mentioned in the same sentence...
     
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  17. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    I didn't title the video. I just viewed it.
     
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  18. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    The comparison I should have made is what the video content is. One girl is hitting fed balls and another reacting to shots made by a skilled junior opponent.

    We need to see Emira playing points to judge her current tennis abilities.
     
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  19. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I was tempted to mention Caroline Xie but others have already jumped in.
    The Emira's video is titled "The best forehand in women's game". But you know what - Caroline Xie has a better forehand. But she also has a better backhand drive and slice. And she has great transition game and net game. And she is a great defender and counter-puncher. And she can pull opponents to the net and eat them alive there. And she has a decent first serve and very very good kick second serve. And I saw her match when she did exactly 2 unforced errors playing attacking tennis. But wait, there is more. She has a very high tennis IQ. During warm-up against unknown opponent she conducts real research and comes up with a game plan. So she may play totally different against opponent A and opponent B. She is 13. On the negative side she sometimes may be frustrated and lose her cool.
    So there is a little bit of competition for the "next woman Federer" title or rather next Henin title. I doubt that Emira can do half of what Caroline can do on the court.
     
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  20. ofcr17601

    ofcr17601 New User

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    Does anyone know how old Gabrielle Andrews and Mayo Hibi are ?
     
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  21. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

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    ... and not many can have half the resources that Caroline has to work with.
     
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  22. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    I have to agree with you there. Maria Shiskina seems like a very obnoxious kid.

    I hate to see little kids behave that way.
     
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  23. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    Yes. She's cute but she looks like she wins with ugliness.
     
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  24. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    I guess we have to wait to see... Maybe both will quit tennis in a few years and this comparison will then be moot.
     
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  25. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    What is Emira's local/national ranking? Hitting video's are ok, but match play video's are even better. Any match play video's available?
     
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  26. mozzer

    mozzer Hall of Fame

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    There are videos of her playing points vs her coach.
    Also, in one video, he says he is coaching her for the pro level and not to succeed at the junior level, or soemthing along those lines.
     
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  27. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    both of these girls are very young(around 14) and they are already winning in the 18s events including nationals ... Andrews is a 6 footer+ and has a complete game.. Hibi just knows how to win,she likes to come up to net too.. when the last time you see anyone taking the net? very hot SoCal prospects for pros ,but we have to see how they compete against international players..
     
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  28. tennis-silver

    tennis-silver Banned

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    They forget the part where the Williams sisters did play juniors and only stopped after compiling a combined record of like 100-3 and beat all the top girls their ages. Then they went on to play every match they could against top girls and even boys like Roddick whenever they could get a practice match.

    By 12 both Williams sisters were veterans of all sorts of junior match play and then pulled out of the rankings game.

    You can not train and magically start competing at 15-17 and go anywhere, it just will not work and is not what Richard Williams did.[/QUOTE]


    Thanks for clearing all that up ..... again.
     
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  29. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    Great article. Here is a video of the brother Jabari who was 9 when the article was written Dec 13, 2004. I guess he is 15? I cannot find any record of match play on tennisrecruiting


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4dnA6q_lyo
     
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  30. decades

    decades Guest

    this one video doesn't prove very much. it's like looking at a very small part of an elephant and then trying to figure out what it is. my first impression is that she has mechanical forehand. every ball was in her wheelhouse. she did not run. there are many other strokes we need to see....
     
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  31. ofcr17601

    ofcr17601 New User

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    Hi guys, I did a little research on Tennis Recruiting.net of some of the top 13 and 14yr olds in the country. Brook Austin has won just about everything there is to win since the age of ten. She participated in the U.S.Open this year at only 14yrs of age. This Summer she won a National level II 18's tourney and beat the #girl in the country 1 and 0!

    One reviewer mentioned earlier, that no girl has a attacking game like Mayo Hibi. Shes also ranked very high Nationaly in the 18's. A proven winner, she either makes the finals or wins in just about every tourney she enters. She is ranked #2 in So Cal 18's.

    Gabrielle Andrews is ranked #10 in the country in the 18's and is only 13yrs old. She won singles and doubles in Teen Tennis earlier this year in England. She then made quarter finals in France and won doubles with Brook Austin in the prestigous La Petit AS. Also participated in the U.S. Open.

    Christina Makarova may turn out to be the best of them all, already won two ITFS this year, most recent in Canada.

    These girls are proven winners, however nobody really acknowledges their efforts and accomplisments. Thay have proven credentials and potential. But their parents dont post them up on you tube and declare they are the next this or that. But I think their Parents prefer it that way.
     
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  32. southerncross

    southerncross New User

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    re my post above. "making it" was again in reference to her Dad's ambition for her to be World Number One. I should have expanded on Emira's 'story' that I was aware of, especially from the content of that Sports Illustrated article. (Which may or may not be exaggerated journo piffle)...
     
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  33. tennis-silver

    tennis-silver Banned

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    RE: TCFLA

    Not that I totally disagree with you, I do agree that playing and competing is good. I just don't understand why it matter so much to you with certain girls. So what if their parents scream it from the mountain tops that they have the next #1 player in the world. There are many different paths being taken and not one is the proven cookie cutter way. Kids are different, families are different, needs are different. I'm sure you know exactly what your kid needs at any give time - and trust me, this will change many times over the course of your path in getting him/her to the top. We have to assume that the parents of these kids are doing what they feel is best for them. And by the way - there are many top girls that became successful without playing USTA juniors - not just Venus and Serena - Maria Sharapova, Monica Seles (played very little). In fact, I have seen some of your posts where you stated that the top of the 10's, 12's, 14's, etc almost never make it as a pro. These girls are all still very young and have plenty of time to train and play. Just because they didn't compete in the 10's and 12's doesn't necessarily mean that they will not compete in ITF's . More and more parents are becoming frustrated with the USTA and would rather not play.
    Not to mention taking into account for the type of game being taught to them. If they are being taught to have a big serve, big groundies, big weapons, etc then - as you have stated before - this will not translate at the junior level. I'll be anxiously awaiting your thoughts about this when your kid starts to compete.
     
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  34. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    silver...please reread my last post. I said no one knows what method makes a champion. I said maybe this method will work with these girls.

    All I am saying is that these parents should stop saying they are doing what Richard Williams did....because the Williams sisters did play juniors for years.

    These dads are welcome to shout from the mountains that they think they have the next # 1 player.....but they should not think they are following the Williams model with regards to juniors.
     
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  35. tennis-silver

    tennis-silver Banned

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    Yes, your correct, you did say that - sorry.

    Can you post the Williams' junior record?
     
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  36. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Serena was 46-3 and ranked #1 in her age group when Richard pulled her from juniors.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_Williams

    Venus was 63-0 and ranked #1 in the 12s when she stopped juniors.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_Williams

    So my point is that if these parents think the Williams bypassed juniors they are wrong. They were hardened competitors before they were pulled and even after that never ducked a practice match against the very best girls.

    Same with Sharapova....she didn't chase rankings but did play lots of junior tournaments around Florida. She would work her way through the draws. At 13 she won the Eddie Herr 16s. So she did play her share of other top juniors.

    The girls who grow up overseas play the ITF tournaments. So I am curious as to how these girls do who will try to jump right into competition on the pro level without entering any junior tournies of note.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
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  37. tennis-silver

    tennis-silver Banned

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    Thanks for the info but do you have the USTA record? I could up date their wikipedia if I wanted to - meaning - wikipedia is not that reliable.

    For example - everyone knows that the sisters never played Juniors in Florida. Macci traveled to California to recruit them and once they came to Florida they never played junior tournaments. In fact, Macci tried to get them to play some for the experience but Richard refused.

    My niece is the same age of Venus and played all thru the Juniors and it was always comical to her that everyone believed Richard when he said that Venus was top in the Juniors in California and all the top juniors knew she never played.

    Anyway - not to keep the point alive - because I, like you, believe in playing.

    Thanks again.
     
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  38. decades

    decades Guest

    it seems odd that they would not want to measure their progress every 2 years or so by playing a tournament or two. Now I understand the Williams family did this kind of measuring. I am skeptical this family is not taking this route. I am also skeptical after seeing some of the youtube videos of the 15 year old boy. rafa and hewitt were starting their pro careers at 15-16. we don't even know if these kids like to "compete"....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2010
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  39. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I too am skeptical and have been for years. We have 3 or 4 girls who are internet video stars but who never compete with top girls. The story is always the same, juniors are a waste and we are going pro.

    A cynic might think the real reason is that dad wants to create and keep hype going without the bubble being burst by actual top competition.

    After all, we have all seen kids who look like world beaters in a practice setting and who can not win a thing vs a real opponent with nasty intentions!

    We all remember Jan Silva who looked at age 4-5-6 on video as if he would be destroying 10 year olds by age 7. He had academy training, personal massage, every advantage. Had pretty strokes with fed balls. Yet in the Norcal local tournies he has proven to struggle. Maybe one day he will turn into a great player but his videos showed the vast difference between practice and reality.

    Practice players vs real players.....every parent must suck it up and find out if you have the former or the later.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
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  40. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    One minute you people say the 10's and 12's are meaningless and proves nothing then you say the Williams girls dominated the 10's and 12's then they were pulled out.

    My question is how are these kids who by-pass the younger age groups doing anything wrong or do they have to dominate the 10's and 12's then they are on the right path ?

    Do the 10's and 12's matter TCF or not ?
     
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  41. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Isn't Jan Silva in France now?
     
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  42. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    I read an article by Stan Smith? (I think it was Stan Smith) a while back where he was talking about that he had a hunch that there was another path to creating a world champion tennis player. That a junior could be generally athletic and start playing tennis later like age 13-15 and maybe not complete in junior events, etc.

    I guess the point is no one really knows what can be done until someone does it. The Williams Sisters did blaze a new path by not competing at the high level junior competitions in their later teenage years. Can someone become a great player without playing official junior tournaments at all (but rather just practice matches)?

    So far, no one has exactly done that. But I personally think it's possible.

    I guess we will see what happens with the careers of these youtube girls in the next 4 or 5 years.
     
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  43. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Venus played till 12 years of age a couple of months before 13 took 2 to 3 years off and got back to it at 15 years of age.

    So my question is how much did they really do outside of the juniors?
     
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  44. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    It all depends. The girls mature way earlier than the boys so you can learn much about a 12 year old girl in competition than you can a 12 year old boy.

    Also, what sort of 12s? A girl becoming top 10 in Rhode Island? Or a girl owning the 12s in SoCal?

    But nonetheless, being the top USTA kid in the 10s and 12s does not mean a whole lot in terms of who will succeed in the pros.

    But that was a different discussion.

    This one is that these dads have all said they are "following the Richard Williams" model. Thats not true. His girls played juniors for a good long time.

    These dads apparently plan to bypass all juniors, 14s, 16s, 18s, ITF, everything.

    Do you know any top pros who played no junior tournies at all?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
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  45. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    My guess is that they would pay the price during their first years on tour. For example, lets take Nadal. He had success on the pro tour at a fairly young age and fairly soon after he turned full time pro. He had competed at a high level in his teens and was able to translate that experience quickly.

    Had he never competed in juniors he might have struggled for 3-4 years as his knowledge of the nuances of competing in real matches caught up to his athletic talent. Paying the dues of learning to compete would have just been delayed and paid later. But I bet he would have still become the great player he is today, just a few years later.

    I think examples like the Williams sisters do not work because they are "freaks". The Williams sisters had extreme size and power and training and opportunity and athletic ability. Like Tiger, their dads got 'lucky' as they happen to have huge talents to work with. We never hear about the other 1000000 kids whose dad's took them down similar paths and they could not cut it.

    Think about the 10-20 mediocre tennis playing young girls you have seen in the past year. We all know them, they try hard but are simply low on talent. Had Richard Williams had 2 of them would he have made them champs? Had his girls topped out at 5'3" would he have made them champs? Not a chance.

    But I agree with you....it is theoretically possible for this no juniors at all method to work if a dad is lucky enough to have an extreme talent on his hands.

    But my spider sense is telling me these three dads have a different agenda, keep the hype going by avoiding the top girls. All have huge egos and why would they not like their girls to go to the Eddie Herr and destroy all the other girls? Of course they would.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
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  46. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I think we can all agree that true athletic freaks look something like Hinges or Henin ,,,,,,,,,

    These 2 not only were a lot smaller then the Williams sisters but were able to dominate them back to back at tournaments-----------

    In fact Hinges and her mom had many arguments over here not wanting to do off court training like the Williams were doing ,,,,,, This I believe could have elevated Hinges to a completely different level then all the rest of the field ---------------This we saw in another great athlete such as Martina Navratolova.
     
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  47. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    These are great, healthy and fun debates. The Williams sisters are phenoms with Serena arguably being one of the best female players of all time. Serena is a massive freak. She's strong, athletic, and a fierce competitor. They have spoiled us the last 17 years and will be sorely missed when they leave the game.

    I would not categorize Hinges as a freak. Maybe off the court (referring to her nickname of the Black Widow), but Hinges would not not dominate today's game. Her second serve was a pair of two's - total bluff - and would be exposed by the bigger hitting girls of today, training or no training. Now Henin, she's a different story. Pound for pound, the best I've seen.
     
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  48. ofcr17601

    ofcr17601 New User

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    Once again, can anyone comment on who they think the top 13 and 14yr old girls in the country are?

    By the way, I've had a chance speak with a few African American dad's who believed although Richard Williams was a source of inspiration. They don't necessarilly respect the Williams camp because of the lack of class and arrogance exhibited by Serena, (to a certain degree) Venus, Richard and the Mom.
     
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  49. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    He and his family were at a French tennis academy for about a year but returned to Norcal about 2 years ago.
     
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  50. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Oh, I didn't realize they were back. Seemed like they had a good set up in France and that they (Mouratoglou) were prepared to work with the boy for many years. Wonder what happened.
     
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