Equipment recommendation for the throwers ten

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by sportsfan1, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: May 11, 2012
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  2. Itagaki

    Itagaki Semi-Pro

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    Nothing else is needed

    A shoulder horn might help, but it's a costly tool
     
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  3. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    A 2 to 3 lb dumbbell is all you need, if you are looking to work on rehabilitation.

    If you are healthy, you can do higher weights, but remember when you use heavier weights, your bigger muscles would take over and the smaller supporting muscles don't get the exercises they need.

    For my rotator cuff rehabilitation, I did exercises similar to the Thrower's 10, except I had to do it with the emphasis of squeezing the bottom parts of my shoulder blades together while doing those exercises.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
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  4. Connors Fan

    Connors Fan Rookie

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    I used them with only a cheapo green stretch band when my shoulder was messed up. I couldnt lift my shoulder above my arm without pain. I tried push ups, pull ups, dumbells and the like with out much relief. My wife who had rotator issues, told me to quit trying to be macho, and use the stupid green band thing. So I did, everytime I walked by the door to my den, I went through my approximation of the throwers ten. Two weeks later, arm was fine, though it hurt quite a bit to use it the first several days. The beauty of the wimpy stretch bands is, they are not really breaking down the muscle, so you can just do them all the time, which for me, really seemed to speed recovery of my injury. The only other tennis specific item I have gotten is the Thera-Band Flexbar, which I would reccomend to anyone, it works wonders for me, then and now when I get a bit sore.
     
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  5. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Totally agree with scotus, the bands and LIGHT dumbbells for these exercises is all you need. Even if you have no pain you don't want to use heavier weights. You could tear something, no fooling.

    these exercises are designed to be done with high reps and low weight.

    Connors Fan, great story about how you healed up. Hope others in a similar situation pay attention and learn from your experience. Doesn't take a lot of weight to have a positive benefit.
     
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  6. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the input. I am planning to do this exercise more as a means of prevention than recovery. Since I haven't done this exercise before, I had no idea on the equipment to use. A quick search online showed up many different parts - handles, bands, etc.
    Anyways, I decided to go ahead and get something rather than wait to find out the exact list, so I bought a box of Body Fit resistance tubing and it came with a bunch of accessories including handles and clips. Plus I bought a part that you can hookup between the door and the frame, and then clip the tubing to that.

    And I bought a 5 lbs dumbbell, which bemused the store staff, it was across as wimpy for a guy :).
     
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  7. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    With the throwers ten, I'd start with light dumbbells and then work my way up while maintaining strict form. I now use 10lb dumbbells for most of my rotator cuff work.

    I started doing external rotation exercises with a blue tubing with handles. I'd just wrap it around a pole to do external rotation, which is similar to how Nadal warms up by doing external and internal rotation with bands wrapped around the net post. You can adjust the tension by just using a shorter length of tubing. However, the tubing will eventually break, so be aware of that and make sure to protect your eyes if you are really stressing it.

    I suggest also doing scapular push-ups and other general upper body strengthening.
     
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  8. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Imo, I think 10 pounds is too heavy for many of the exercises comprising the Thrower's Ten.
     
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  9. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I have a healthy shoulder and if I do any less weight, I could probably do 100 reps!
     
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  10. NothingButNet

    NothingButNet New User

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    I am in month number 8 of recovery from a rotator cuff injury, pretty handy with heavy weights in general, but 2kgs is my limit for the thrower's ten regime. This is with 40 reps per set. I normally use 1.25kg weights though.

    As charliefed pointed out once, you should be able to do high reps to the point of exhaustion, not pain, and I think that that's an excellent guide.
     
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  11. benjamins_80

    benjamins_80 New User

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    My personal choice is to use the cable system at the gym.
     
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  12. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    First of all, some decide to start the thrower's ten after developing shoulder pain. If you are having pain in your shoulder, you need rest and an evaluation by a shoulder specialist, not starting exercises that could make the problem worse.

    Second, if you are recovering from an injury strictly follow the recommendations of your doctor and therapist. The rotator cuff muscles and the muscles of the forearm are relatively small, and it would be all too easy to progress too rapidly in weight or tubing strength to cause harm.


    For those who wish to start the thrower's ten as a preventative measure without pain or recent injury, it is easy to test what dumbell weight and elastic tubing to select. Pick a weight or tubing that you can easily do at least 10 repetitions with perfect form.

    Here is what Sports Fitness Advisor recommends:
    "Keep to a weight of 2-5 lbs (1-2kg) maximum. Complete 3 sets of 12-15 repetitions for the following exercises in the order below."
    - http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/rotator-cuff-exercises.html





    A caution to tennis players is to "listen to their body". Even with what seems like very light weights it is possible to develop soreness that persists for several days (or more).
    Also, if you are playing a lot of tennis, and particularly if you are serving, your shoulder, elbow or wrist may be very sore.
    If so, that is an indication to hold off on the additional exercises in the thrower's ten, and in your tennis, and let the area heal.



    The thrower's ten is still a useful adjunct to those that lift weights in a gym. Indeed, it may be even more important that work out with conventional exercises like the bench press, pull ups, lat pull downs, bent over rows, etc.

    From Sports Fitness Advisor, Tennis Training Section:
    " In sports like tennis and golf, overuse injuries of the wrist, elbow and rotator cuff muscles are all too common.

    Most weight training exercises predominantly target the larger muscles groups. So while they get stronger and stronger, the smaller, more isolated muscles get neglected...

    That doesn't normally cause a problem until you expose your body to thousands of repetitive movements that incorporate the larger AND the smaller muscle groups - like a forehand drive for example.

    So while you hit harder and harder shots (as the strength in your large muscles groups increases), those finer muscles are placed under a disproportionate amount of stress.

    The best way to compensate for this is to target and isolate those smaller muscle groups before they become over-worked.

    By adding a few choice exercises for the forearm and rotator cuff muscles to your tennis strength training program, you can significantly reduce the occurrence of stress injuries in these areas.

    You can start these exercises at any time or phase during the entire program. You can perform them at the end of a session or for 10-15 minutes on separate days."
    - http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/tennis-strength-training.html



    Since I mentioned combining the thrower's ten with an exercise program, perhaps it would be appropriate to urge caution for tennis players's doing certain exercises that could be a problem:
    Pressing and the Overhead Athlete By Eric Cressey http://www.elitefts.com/documents/overhead_athlete.htm
    What Exercises Cause Shoulder Impingement? http://www.livestrong.com/article/395015-what-exercises-cause-shoulder-impingement/
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
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  13. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    That's also what I do at the gym, instead of the elastic tubing exercises.

    At home I also have the elastic tubing, plus my own dumbells.
     
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  14. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    I don't remember ever posting that you should be doing the thrower's ten "to the point of exhaustion". Nevertheless, your point is well taken you shouldn't be doing high weight/low rep work to build maximum strength as your goal for your thrower's ten exercises.


    And like anything, you can overdo it:
    "#4 – Don’t Make Your Rotator Cuff Weaker by “Strengthening” It
    Doing too many rotator cuff exercises can lead to injuring the shoulder.
    The patron in the gym. (Ya, at this gym, they call gym members, patrons. I don’t know.)
    The patron in the gym was doing a standing tubing external rotation exercise. He was not doing it for sets or reps, but to fatigue. Not a good idea.
    Often times, you will see people focusing on working their rotator cuff in an exercise. They will be performing repetitions with their maximum weight and going to fatigue. This leads to the rotator cuff not being able to do its job which is to hold the head of the humerus (upper arm) in place in the shoulder. With the rotator cuff fatigued, the upper arm will move upwards and increase the risk of impingement in the shoulder (Teyhen 2008).
    You can do rotator cuff work in the warm up at a low load to warm them up, or you can do your rotator cuff work at the end of your workout, but doing it to fatigue is not a good idea."
    - http://exercisesforinjuries.com/common-rotator-cuff-exercise-mistake/
     
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  15. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Yep, agree with all of this.

    Honestly, when I read about people using 10 pound weights with rotator cuff exercises, I cringe. I would never ask a client to do that, regardless of strength. These kinds of exercises for the rotator cuff are VERY different in nature than working other muscle groups, like squats.
     
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  16. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    10 pounds with the cable/pulley system is much easier than with free weights. I realized the hard way that 10 pounds with free weights was too much as I started developing shoulder pain again. Now that I'm back down to use 5 pounds dumbbells for all shoulder and wrist exercises, my shoulder feels great.
     
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  17. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    I have to admit that I've gone over 10 pounds myself.

    I can't say I recall quoting "words of wisdom" from Body Building.com before, but the following is from an article "The Importance Of Rotator Cuff Exercises In Your Bench Press Training" by Mike Westerdal:

    "Points To Remember

    - The muscles of the rotator cuff are very small. Even if you're pushing five bills on the bench press you'll still be using five-pound dumbbells for many rotator cuff exercises. So leave your ego at the door!

    - Avoid lat pulldowns and military presses behind the head as they place the shoulder in a poor biomechanical position which encourages impingement.

    - Training your rotator cuff muscles can help you avoid pain, prevent future injuries, and fix muscular imbalances.

    - It's not uncommon for a trainee to add 20+ pounds to their bench press simply by strengthening the rotator cuff muscles.

    - Never perform a rotator cuff routine prior to bench pressing or overhead pressing movements. [The last thing you want to do is pre-exhaust your rotator cuff before training the bench press. You can give these exercises a try at the end of your workout, but be sure you always give your rotator cuff muscles 48-hours rest after a workout before training chest or shoulders.]

    - If you feel serious pain in your shoulder it may be too late. Go see a sports medicine physician.

    Conclusion

    We all know people who were really into bodybuilding/powerlifting and looked forward to bench pressing only to eventually drop out after a few years of hardcore training. Why? In many cases nagging injuries especially those of the shoulder, simply took the fun out of it. This doesn't have to happen to you so you're ahead of the game.

    The best thing you can do to keep your shoulders healthy, and make sure your bench press continues to improve is strengthen your rotator cuff muscles so that they will never be your weakest link! After all your bench press will be going nowhere fast if you're injured.

    Pick up the girlie weights for a few sets once a week so you'll experience a bench press blastoff instead of a bench press blowout."
    - http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/criticalbench24.htm



    So when it comes to the rotator cuff, I guess we better stick to the "girlie weights". :oops:
     
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  18. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Assuming the reps below, how often should you do the throwers ten, say in a week?

     
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  19. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I do it once a week (sometimes twice a week) and my shoulder problems have gone away.
     
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  20. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Though I'm not as absolute as some of poster here about the upper limits for these exercises, but I do agree with you guys to some degree.

    Rotator cuff muscles and tendons are never meant to do any heavy lifting. They are meant to stabilize the joint WHILE the large muscle groups are doing the heavy lifting. Having said that, one can train their rotator cuff all they want, but it'll never show. It's like training your fingers to do bicep curls, it aint going to happen.

    Each muscle (groups) were evolved to have a specific function. People, please train within a muscle's intended function and not overwhelm it instead. Rotator cuff is basically group of muscles/tendons trying to stabilize a ball constantly being pulled and stretched out of its original socket. I said constantly, didn't I? So, let's focus on stamina/endurance versus hulk-like power which will never be called upon.

    With rotator cuff exercises, I some stuff with a 10lbs dumbell, like the shoulder abduction and the scaption. But that's my limit. I don't care how easy they become, I'm not going over 10lbs.

    Anything and everything that has to do with rotation, it's either a 3-6lbs dumbell or resistance bands. Internal rotation should be stronger than external rotation because you have your pecs helping you, but still. I'm not going to touch a 10lbs dumbell with rotations.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
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