ESPN Staffer Strongly Implies Rafa is Doping

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by batz, Mar 1, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,579
    http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...alberto-contador-drug-cases-reopen-old-wounds

    Wouldn't surprise me if Nadal indulges in a bit of 'libel tourism' at the High Court in London.

    In any other universe, even though he has never been linked to performance enhancers and has never failed a drug test, Nadal and tennis would be at the center of the doping question. The game has become more powerful, more physical and more grueling, most recently evidenced by the epic five-hour, 53-minute Australian Open final between Nadal and Novak Djokovic. Big servers such as Canada's Milos Raonic, America's John Isner, Croatia's Ivo Karlovic and Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro routinely top 135 mph. Nadal, never a big server, won the 2010 U.S. Open over Djokovic because, for two weeks, he did something he'd never done before: He became a big server, adding roughly 20 mph on average to his serve -- the equivalent of a low-90s pitcher hitting 98 on the gun. Nadal hit 130 mph on the radar gun during that championship fortnight, and attributed the increase to a grip change to continental. But he'd never reached that velocity before, and hasn't done it consistently since.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
    #1
  2. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,326
    fair point actually. how do you find that elusive +20mph just in the nick of time? grip change? why isn't grip change working again?

    one guys says grip change and another says gluten free. intriguing world. reminds me of the sea of stories in a salman rushdie novel.
     
    #2
  3. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    Relax folks, ...
    It was about 8 mph I think on average compared to the previous US Open, not 10 - 20 mph. I'm guessing his serve speeds are reasonably constant at Wimbledon and the AO so in short, 10 - 20mph is an exaggeration.
     
    #3
  4. PollyBallGirl

    PollyBallGirl Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    nottallowed2say:[
    Hey didnt rafael get a drug test at the 2010 us open? Pretty sure he did. I think the journalist writer got it wrong :(
     
    #4
  5. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686
    Nadal's serve at the USO in 2010 is greatly overrated and exaggerated. I wouldn't expect this guy to know that though since he primarily writes about baseball,and knows jack about tennis. Maybe he should stick to writing about how Braun scr*wed the system and got away with being doped to his eyeballs instead of attempting to write about something he knows nothing about.
     
    #5
  6. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,326
    may be thats why he thinks he can smell something.
     
    #6
  7. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    7,167
    Location:
    Serbia, Belgrade
    yes, i find that us open 10 serve thing fishy as well, but so far Rafito not proven guilty.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
    #7
  8. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,217
    YAY!!
    another Nadal dopes thread!
    i was getting bored.
    [​IMG]
     
    #8
  9. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    7,167
    Location:
    Serbia, Belgrade
    Not saying Rafito doped but I found it wierd as well how he served like that and only for that uso.
     
    #9
  10. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,228
    These people know nothing about tennis.

    Every person that think Nadal's flat serves are something fishy know nothing about tennis.

    And I am as far away as a Nadal fan as you can get.
     
    #10
  11. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    Hmm, so why only Nadal and why not Joker/Federer/Ferrer/Murray/Tsonga??

    Way to throw someone under the bus. I hope Nadal sues this person for his/her incompetency.
     
    #11
  12. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686

    Yep. If Nadal is doping he sure ain't alone.
     
    #12
  13. monfed

    monfed Guest

    As with all doping allegations I'll just say this - Not guilty until proven.

    Just for the fun of it, I think both Novak and Ralph juice judging by how both these players played a gruelling 5 hour semi and came back to win their respective 6 and 5 hour gruelling finals at the AO. That is inhuman fitness imo especially because their playing style is so physical.
     
    #13
  14. The Wreck

    The Wreck Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    767
    I don't think Rafa is doping right now. He's actually gotten significantly smaller, in my opinion, since 07-08.
    [​IMG]

    Nadal is not that jacked today. And while nothing about that physique implies being on the juice, I would at least argue it's more likely he used it then than 2010-present.
     
    #14
  15. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,793
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    not all dope makes u big as a house.

    he may have cut back on the stuff that made him bulk up in order to protect the knees but still take the stuff that gives one unheard of stamina.
     
    #15
  16. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,793
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    most dopers at an elite level never get caught thru testing.
    it usually takes some sort of govt probe or sting.
    See Balco and Operacion Puerta and Greyhound.
     
    #16
  17. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,217
    at that period he was doping a little, LOL
    [​IMG]
     
    #17
  18. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,319
    I was willing to buy Djokovic's gluten free story until this past Australian Open. Right now I'm very skeptical. That marathon semifinal/final defies logic. And in my eyes, if I think that Djokovic is/was using, then I believe Nadal is/was using and yes, even Fed.

    I hope that it is not the case but it reminds me of the time in the U.S. when all those homeruns were flying out of the ballpark and the first excuse was that the baseballs were being strung tighter by the manufacturers. Then it was the aerodynamics of the new ballparks that were being built. It was great to follow the Sammy Sosa, Mark Maquire homerun race. It saved baseball that was experiencing a drastic drop in attendance after the players strike.

    We, as tennis fans, are experiencing are a great heydey with the athleticism of the top players. It is great but I will not be naive to think that there is no possible way that this sport is clean.
     
    #18
  19. PollyBallGirl

    PollyBallGirl Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    nottallowed2say:[
    So....drug tests mean nothing..all that matters is what a journalist or fan says..haha.
     
    #19
  20. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,793
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    run along, nadalito.
     
    #20
  21. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,793
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    some people were saying the same thing after the 09 AO. How could rafa play that grueling 5 setter and then come back the next day and play another 5 sets? Granted that final wasnt nearly as grinding and brutal as this year's but still.


    I have a slight naive hope that Fed is ok because he specifically asked for his blood samples to be held for 8 years after his retirement.

    But then again, he could also be confident that his dope is 12 years ahead of the testing.
     
    #21
  22. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686

    We never hear about whether or not a player passed or failed a test,so how do we know they are clean? I fail to believe that just about every competitive sport on earth has had doping problems except for tennis. I just don't buy it.
     
    #22
  23. Yourtenniscoach

    Yourtenniscoach Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Messages:
    324
    He just says his prayers and takes his vitamins Hulkamania style. ;)
     
    #23
  24. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,620
    At this point, I think tennis is a little like baseball was, and still is apparently, in that they have a great thing going and big-names doping would mess the whole thing up. It's going to take an outsider to blow the whole thing open.
     
    #24
  25. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,217
    can you think of a scenario?
     
    #25
  26. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,793
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    not really. they caught tiger woods' doctor's assistant illegally crossing hte canadian border with all sorts of illegal stuff...nothing came of it.
     
    #26
  27. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,217
    that's why i'm asking.. trying to think of something.
     
    #27
  28. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    9,793
    Location:
    Minneapolis, North of the Wall
    it will take a whistle blower with proof

    it will take govt agensts busting into a lab while a high profile athlete is receiving 'treatment'
     
    #28
  29. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,228
    I am not saying they're not doping.

    What I am saying is that to think Nadal is doping because of the flat serve he sometimes choose to hit, is plainly stupid.
     
    #29
  30. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    The point of the article was to suggest that tennis could have a problem with doping, not necessarily Nadal. He chose him as an example because of the recent scandals between Spain and France.
    He also wrote this
     
    #30
  31. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    #31
  32. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,705
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
     
    #32
  33. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,705
    Perhaps they are all doping, although the clearest example to me would be Djokovic, not Nadal, who suddenly went from a career #3, to unbeatable, please, if that's not apparent, then what is.
     
    #33
  34. volleygirl

    volleygirl Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    404

    These guys in all sports have never sued people who make these comments because they have all turned out to be cheating. So many people said "I hope these guys sue Jose Canseco" because of all the names he listed in his book but not one of them did and Canseco was proven to be 100% accurate with all the cheaters he exposed.
     
    #34
  35. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,939
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Now that's some awesome TT hypocrisy right there. Well done. Lol.
     
    #35
  36. Telepatic

    Telepatic Legend

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    7,167
    Location:
    Serbia, Belgrade
    For someone being #3 behind Fedal continuously since 2007, I'd found it weird if he didn't became #1 at some point really.

    Well, top 4 is dominant for some time now, if one takes something then they all do.
     
    #36
  37. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,041
    LOL in tennis you cannot improve your serve on demand by doping.

    Simple answer is that he was using a better technique but has now gone back to his old habits.
     
    #37
  38. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,098
    True, but you could improve recovery time if your "better technique" caused damage to your body. I mean blood spinning, although legal, is really just concentrating self produced HGH and applying it to an injury to speed up recovery. To me that is a bit different than taking anti-inflammatories.
     
    #38
  39. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    Tell that to Leon Spinks.
     
    #39
  40. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,705
    Yes, I agree it's not unusual that he became #1, even though those two were extremely dominant, but the way he became #1, it wasn't a gradual progression, it was almost instantaneous, and suddenly he couldn't lose a match.
     
    #40
  41. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,041
    Recovery time has nothing to do with serving with a better technique. There is a video which shows a consultant coach showing him the problems in his serve (arm at an angle) and how to correct it, which he did. He could not sustain this form, which shows that even pros fall back to old habits.

    And where did HGH and blood spinning come into play here?

    The journalists have to write this otherwise they have no jobs in this era of blogs and instant information. Their journalism majors are not in demand any more and magazines and papers are saving money by using high school and college students as "citizen journalists."
     
    #41
  42. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,098
    If his new technique put added stress on his shoulder, ligaments, etc..... then there are some banned substances that could aid in the healing of injuries to those ligaments.

    And a big "REAL SLAM" LOL at what does blood spinning have to do with this conversation. I mean just a GIGANTIC LOL.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...adal-driven-pain-barrier-desire-stay-No1.html

    I guess you don't remember who had a bit of blood spinning done?
     
    #42
  43. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,098
    Here is an interesting take on the Braun situation.

    http://deadspin.com/5869473/victor-...ast+acting-testosterone-not-anabolic-steroids

    Granted Conte is less than stellar in terms of reputation, he sure seemed to nail down the only loopholes that Braun could use. Makes me wonder how many other sports could be using "fast acting testoterone?" It would seem the only way to combat this would be to exponentially increase the amount of testing each player goes through as well as randomized tests. Doping testing in tennis seems far to laxed when drugs like this are floating around.

    There are also other substances which aren't band that give similar effects to HGH. Deer antler velvet for instance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
    #43
  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,041
    And when Federer improved his BH with more top spin instead of slicing all the time, that could also put added stress, so he is also a candidate for doping.

    Do you realize how absurd you sound, with Nadal hate becoming so obvious?
     
    #44
  45. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,117
    The ESPN writer obviously knows nothing about tennis.
     
    #45
  46. slal1984

    slal1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    He knows nothing...i am laughing at how ridiculous his comparisons are....does the mean if kobe bryant who averages 28 points per game has a 60point game he is doping? Or if a quarterback who averages 250 yards/game throws for 430 yards..he is doping.
     
    #46
  47. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    4,020
    Finally someone calls him out. He is definitely taking something. Just look at those bulky arms. Not typical of a tennis player.
     
    #47
  48. slal1984

    slal1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    230
    If you look at all the spanish players (Verdasco, Ferrer, Lopez) in the top 20. They are all ripped...8-9% body fat. Its the way they train and their workout routine that leads to them developing these muscles.
    For Nadal have you seen how much spin he puts on the ball...he needs to have the strongest wrist, forearm, biscep and sholder muscles to be able to put over 4000rpm on the ball.

    Also just because someone has big biceps does not mean that person is strong. Looks don't mean anything in tennis..
     
    #48
  49. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,098
    Ah yes because his backhand isn't what it once was. Aslo the serve puts much more stress on ones body.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/397825-shoulder-pain-from-serving-in-tennis/

    http://www.artsportsdoc.com/Tennis.html

    Federer sure could be doping. Just about anyone could be doping in professional sports. Also, Nadal has a history of shoulder injuries.

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...f.,cf.osb&fp=ba31447a30ed0e2&biw=1676&bih=933

    Oh and injuries against bananas also. Nadal has decided to emulate Silvio Berlusconi's attempt to ban garlic from restaurants by banning bananas from all the "5" slams.
     
    #49
  50. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    9,217
    Murray might be next on the list, ha ha :p
     
    #50
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page