Estimated service speed

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by boojay, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    First of all, I never claimed my kick serve goes 125. :rolleyes: Also, I never volunteered how fast I served. To set the record straight, I was asked in my original thread so i answered.

    You also just proved my point. You can't analyze a tennis game by a youtube video.
    That guy who you think is a 3.5 player with the horrible reaction time is my dad, a National Champion.......

    He's the winner of the doubles national tennis championship for the 45's.
    I'll ask him for the names again, but the team they beat were former Wimbledon Champions. I'm sure your thinking, yeah right, but I can take a picture of the plaque and title if I wanted to but its really not worth the effort. Granted it was exactly 20 years ago, hes still a good tennis player for not having played much lately. Give him a break, hes 65 and he hates my kick serve. But hes accomplished quite a bit in his years of a tennis player.

    I had also been serving all slice hops so the kickers came as a suprise. His racquet was there, but he just happened to get lazy with his footwork and misjudged the side hop on the kick. The video doesn't even do the kick serve justice. Given the comments that you've written to me, I doubt you could even return it.


    Its totally obvious that the second flat serve I hit, made contact with the inside portion of his frame of the racquet causing a mishit to ricocet off to his left. And that was off of his forehand, who I rallied those forehands with. A 3.5 player cannot handle my forehand well enough to rally back consistently. He only moved about 1 step before he made contact with the ball because he didnt move quick enough to totally get to that serve. which is why it was mishit.
    Heres the link to what your referring to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5gLYogcZIE

    I mean my god, can't you hear the frame being struck? wow... drakulie. after that one you've lost total credibility in my eyes. So what makes you think you can analyze a service speed? :rolleyes:

    _____________________________________________________________

    boojay :

    I would say its over 100, but exactly how fast its going is really impossible for me to tell. There are so many frames lost in the video. I tried freezing your service motion to see its exact path but the quality of the video is just too low. Its a pretty decent looking serve though. Might want to push off a little more with your legs during contact. I wish I could see it clearer. Its being taped from a little too far away to really get a decent look at.
     
    #51
  2. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    288
    I personally prefer to measure my serves in kilometer rather then miles per hour. I could serve a mean 100kilometer/hour serve.
     
    #52
  3. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,026
    Location:
    The Pillars of Creation
    Mmmmm yah, i still haven't learned to do that yet. I can't get it in consistently if I bend too much and use my legs any more than i currently am. Usually, I'll miss the ball completely or have a service percentage of 3% if i try. Gotta work on that coordination though and maybe someday, preferably soon, I'll get it right. Anyway, thanks for the tips.

    As for the poor video quality, that's all i have to work with at the moment. I'm using my mom's 3-year old Kodak 5.0 MP digicam. I'd have to shell out the dough to get better recording equipment which i'm not going to do because it's not worth it.
     
    #53
  4. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    I never said your kick goes 125 mph either. You obviously missed my point. Here is my point again..... Your father barely reacted to your kick serve which is much, much slower than your first serve and within his reach. He begins his swing when the ball is about to pass him. Yet, on your 125 mph serve, not only did he react to it, he moved to his right, and his swing is ahead of it.

    Just because he is your dad does not mean he can't be a 3.5 player. In addition, I don't "think"-----it is obvious from the video his reaction is very slow. National Champion or not.

    I have no reason to doubt that he has, but his accomplishments do not equate to your serve on that video being 125 mph. In addition, if he is 65 and you feel I need to give him a break, maybe you shouldn't be hitting 125+ mph serves against him, or kick serves as you say, he can't stand returning.


    This one is too funny. It is obvious I hurt your feelings and now you resort to ....I "can't return it"....Not only will I return your kick serve, I will also return that 125 mph serve.

    No matter how many times you provide this link, your serve has still not reached 125 mph.

    I was not aware I was being "certified" by you.


    I already answered this for you several times.

    _____________________________________________________________

    Here is a perfect example of how far fetched your 125 mph theory is. It is absolutely impossible to determine how fast the serve speed is from the video you refer to------yet somehow you estimate it is "over 100". You can't even see the flight path of the ball (because it is not shown in the video). It is a side shot, only showing the ball leaving the racquet, yet somehow it is "100+".

    What a joke. You're right, "I've lost all credibility". (ROLLEYES!)
     
    #54
  5. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    #55
  6. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,026
    Location:
    The Pillars of Creation
    heh, that last vid of me was a while ago. I can tell you that WASN'T even 80 mph cuz my arm and shoulder were in an insane amount of pain and I had to hold back a great deal. That wasn't even a second serve, just to give you an idea.

    I can kinda see your point about it not being possible to judge speed based on these vids though because it does sound like I'm hitting it hard, but I'm not. Whereas in my other indoor vids that I've posted in this thread, I was hitting pretty hard, not max, but pretty hard compared to this outdoor vid of me here.
     
    #56
  7. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,026
    Location:
    The Pillars of Creation
    pointing out the obvious here, but i can sense a great deal of animosity between a select number of participants in this thread, which is not what I wanted when I originally started this thread, so my bad.

    Anyway, I don't like where this is heading so in an attempt to halt any potential verbal jabs and further escalating it to nowheresville, I'd like to return this to a serious discussion and I look to some of the older, supposedly more mature posters to help restore what this was about, just a bunch of people who love to play and learn more about tennis.

    I'll tell you guys what I learned from the instructor the other day because I thought it was neat. Many of you probably already know this, so please bear with me:

    The game of tennis is evolving. The men and women are hitting harder than ever. Why? Body mechanics and technique (and maybe steroids, j/k). Years ago, players were told that the strike zone for groundstrokes was between the knees and waist. As topspin began to takeover the game, the zone shifted to between waist and chest. These days, extreme topsin has relegated players to striking the ball from chest to head height. Similarly, we were told back then about the importance of the backscratch for serving. Well....you can throw that out the window as the newer generation of hard servers have discovered a more biomechanically optimal way of delivering power, that is, the baseball serve (ala Roddick). It's not so much throwing a fastball, but having an upward throwing delivery motion that allows players of today to generate so much power.

    That's how much I learned in about 5-10 mins of verbal instruction. I thought it was cool, so thought I would share.
     
    #57
  8. MasterTS

    MasterTS Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,124
    Those are about 105mph.. not 125 lol.. theres a lot more zip and pop in a 125mph serve.. You can tell because by the time the serve hits the fence much of the speed is gone. In a 125mph serve, the zip is still there.
     
    #58
  9. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    I'm not sure why your posting other peoples videos of there serves. Is one of those guys you?
    If not, I want to see you on video. It would be interesting to see.

    Ill just skip all the garbage you posted. You couldn't even admit you were wrong when you thought my dad was way ahead of the ball and then thought he pulled the return to the left.

    I then showed you proof it was a mishit and you failed to acknowledge this in your post. That why you've lost credibility in any tennis knowledge you think you have. Everyone on here can tell that it was a mishit except you.

    So how can you expect me to value anything you say? Admit to me that you were wrong.
     
    #59
  10. Trinity TC

    Trinity TC Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    556
    Hi ZPTennis. A lot of guys have never had a radar gun put on their serves so until they do...they're just guessing. Guys who hit 120+ make it look easy...kinda like your serve.:cool:
     
    #60
  11. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    624

    thanks Trinity. I always have had a simple service motion so I understand what you mean.

    I also think the pros serves wouldn't seem quite so huge if it was recorded with an amateur camera in an amateur setting. Such as a public court. Not that they arent huge, especially Roddicks.

    So when some of these guys see the amateur video, they automatically compare it to high quality television combined with sound thats amplified from the stadium so I can why it can be misjudged.
     
    #61
  12. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    No, they are not me. These are guys that are hitting 125 mph seves like you.

    Seeing me serving is not going to prove your serve is 125 mph. But I will try and video myself and post.

    Why would I admit I was wrong when I am not? Your dad on your 125 mph serve had time to move to his right, take a swing and was ahead of the serve. So what if it was a mishit? He still had his racquet there in time.

    I never said it was not a mishit. You are obviously delusional. Please quote me where I say it was not a mishit. So, I guess I haven't lost credibility huh?

    As I said, you have about a 90-100 mph serve. I have seen and faced guys that hit 125, plenty of times through my college career, and now. Your serve is not even close to one of them.

    As another poster already pointed out, your serve is already losing steam when it is reaching the fence. 125 mph serves keep rising after they hit the ground.

    By the way, you never said how fast you think those serves are.LOL
    As always, Peace.
     
    #62
  13. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Now your just trying to cover yourself. Nice try. :rolleyes:

    heres the quote you requested...

    Originally Posted by drakulie
    You are going to say a 3.5 (?) player (with horrible movement/reaction) you are hitting with has time to move to his right, got his racquet on your 125 mph serve and actually "pulled it". I don't think so.



    When you "pull" a shot, it means for example you pulled wide when going for down the line. I've never heard the term "pulled it" used in place of the word mishit when a guy mishits the ball. So this obviously shows you had no idea he mishit it.

    there you go. :cool:
     
    #63
  14. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Again, please show me where I post that he "did not mishit" it as you claim.

    He does pull the serve. What are you failing to see? It is clear in your own video!!

    HE PULLS THE BALL! THE BALL CLEARLY GOES TO HIS LEFT!! He is a right hander. When a right hander hits the ball to his left it means he pulled it.

    He could have mishit it on the top of the frame and it could of flown over the fence. He could have mishit it on the outside right of the frame sending the ball to the right. He could have mishit it on the bottom inside of the frame sending the ball up and forward. He could have mishit it on the bottom outer edge of the frame sending the ball straight down into the ground........He didn't!!!

    He mishit it on the inner part of the frame and pulled it! What are you not getting?

    Are you implying all mishits go to the right? That someone can't pull a mishit? Obviously you have no clue!

    Keep clocking your serves at the Erickson.

    In my opinion, and in my experience of playing and coaching tennis for nearly 25 years---your serve on that video does not come anywhere near 125 mph. Does this mean you can't hit a 125 mph serve? NO. I have no clue. As I already pointed out to you SEVERAL TIMES you have an awesome serve. Get over it.

    Peace!
     
    #64
  15. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    I like it when you dig yourself deeper like this. Keep in mind I had also told my dad I would be serving everything to his forehand side.

    As you have just stated above, a mishit can go any direction depending upon what part of the frame it hits.

    And previously you wrote,

    Originally Posted by drakulie
    You are going to say a 3.5 (?) player (with horrible movement/reaction) you are hitting with has time to move to his right,[he moved 1 step!, how can you not have time to move 1 step to the ball!] got his racquet on your 125 mph serve and actually "pulled it". I don't think so.


    So then what bearing does mishitting it left have to do with my service speed if a mishit can go in any direction depending on what part of the frame it hits? :D You said this yourself.

    you need to stop... you've lost using your own words.
     
    #65
  16. AngeloDS

    AngeloDS Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,676
    I agree, that serve looks maybe 105 MPH at most. It's going fast but not that fast.

    Boojay your serves are going about 75 MPH at most in reality. They lose half their speed once they hit the ground too.
     
    #66
  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Then he is really slow. He knew that serve was coming, he is a "national champion" and still couldn't hit a 90 mph serve square? Slowwww.

    By the way, real nice of you to throw a kick serve to his backhand when he thought all your serves were going to his forehand. No wonder he swung at that serve after the ball passed him.
     
    #67
  18. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    624

    I knew you wouldn't be able to respond to my previous post.^^^^ i mean, damn I couldn't either if I was you. It must really bother you after I used your own words against you. Now your only recourse is to insult me and my dad. i can really sense the frustration in your words now. you've been outdebated by someone younger than you are. you had no idea who you were dealing with.

    do yourself a favor and let the thread end. I'm sure people who've read this are quite bored of this repetitive dullness.
     
    #68
  19. Ten.Is

    Ten.Is New User

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    99
    Why not just stop the bickering like little girls. Who cares about all that crap...no one is gonna win.

    Seems like someone always has to have the last word.

    Why don't you guys meet up and play a match...you guys can settle the score that way. I can see that you guys both live in FLORIDA...meet up, play each other and record it for all of us to see.
     
    #69
  20. ZPTennis

    ZPTennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    That would be fun. I wouldn't make a special trip for him but if he was ever in Clearwater or I was going to Miami for whatever reason i'd be all for it. The chances of this kind of thing happening though would be almost nothing and I doubt he would ever agree to it.

    Your right about one thing. The arguing between us has been pathetic. Its pretty hard to watch someone write BS about your serve when you've had it radared 5 different times in your life so you know how wrong they are. But I admit i've stooped pretty low by dropping to his level since I responded to him.

    So if he wants the last word, he can post it in this thread and I won't respond.
     
    #70
  21. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    You're on. Bring your dad too so I could teach a 3.5 "national tennis champion" how to return your kick serve, and your 90 mph serve. And, you don't have to tell me where you are serving. Win or lose, it still won't help your serve on that video speed up to 125 mph. You are pathetic.

    What is "hard" for you to swallow is that this thread has been viewed over 1500 times, and there has been 70+ replies, and not ONE person has acknowledged that serve is 125 mph. Furthermore, several people who have commented on the speed have stated it is between 90 -105, or have simply stated it is NOT 125. This includes at least one poster before me, who made this same comment.

    Now here is a "challenge" for you. Since you have access as you stated to someone who has a radar gun, video your serve being clocked at 125.

    LAST WORD.....90-100mph.
     
    #71
  22. MasterTS

    MasterTS Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,124
    I'm not sure why this thread continues. The serve is good but its not 125, not even close.. I hear stupid lil kids that hit a good serve and they start claiming its 130mph.. People don't realize how big 120+ is, and to make it consistent is even tougher. Like I said before, as the serve hits the fence it has slowed down too much. I've seen 125mph serves in person and the real 125mph's hit the fence much harder.
     
    #72
  23. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Wood Stock Tennis, "BTW that video that was posted, maybe it looks faster in person but that doesn't look over or near 100 to me."

    MasterTS, "Those are about 105mph.. not 125 lol.. theres a lot more zip and pop in a 125mph serve.. You can tell because by the time the serve hits the fence much of the speed is gone. In a 125mph serve, the zip is still there."

    AngeloDS, "I agree, that serve looks maybe 105 MPH at most. It's going fast but not that fast."

    Curiously, although I have continuously commended you on your serve and have never made a negative comment about it, including in your original thread, when I thanked you for sharing your video by saying you have a nice serve-your only problem is with me. You are a real jerk.
     
    #73
  24. Trinity TC

    Trinity TC Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    556
    I have.:rolleyes:
     
    #74
  25. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Didn't realize this was an acknowledgement of a 125 mph serve (roll eyes):

    "Guys who hit 120+ make it look easy...kinda like your serve."

    By the way, a lot of guys who make the serve look "easy" hit 70, 80, 90 mph serves, for that matter 100 mph serves too. Just becasue they make the serve look "easy" does not equate to 125 mph.
     
    #75
  26. no skillz

    no skillz Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    288
    Judging the speed of a serve is just like guessing the speed of a moving car.

    Try it, I bet if your friend drives by you going 50, you would say he went 70 maybe even faster. If he went 20 you might say 30. I am almost positive you will not be able to gauge accurately the speed of a car just by looking at it. Now imagine a car flying by you at 120mph, you will probably say "Hot dang, that there is so dang fast I could bearly see it." And that is talking about an object 1000 times larger then a tennis ball.

    Same goes for serves. If you had it tracked with a radar gun it is a different story.

    I dont have a great serve so I will not argue about the speed but I will argue against gauging serve speed based on pure visual speculation.
     
    #76
  27. Trinity TC

    Trinity TC Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    556
    Yep, everybody thinks they can serve 100 mph. I remember watching a bunch of people step up to get their serves timed at the Canadian Open. Most were serving in the high 70s-low 80s. The fastest with the exception of one person was 99 mph by a local teaching pro and was tied by a tall skinny Korean girl with a frying pan grip. Everybody thought there was something wrong with the radar gun until a former top junior "muscled" a serve in at 105. He then hit two at 123 which looked a lot slower to average eye because they looked effortless.

    I got to know him quite well a few years later and we chuckled about the "secret" to hitting a serve 120 mph.

    My serve was a modest 89 mph which wasn't too bad for an old man.:cool:
     
    #77
  28. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,078
    Yeah, I think it is hard to get a good guage of your actual speed until
    you've been radared. Back when I was 16 I thought I had a big serve and
    then when I got radared it was only like 105. The hardest serves were: 125,
    117, 115, 113. I've returned against the 125 guy's serve before. It's pretty
    tough. He's also 6'11" and hits it flat and it still bounces over head high so
    you're forced to take it early and risk getting popped it the face or chest :O

    I can hit a bit harder now but usually only attempt my bigger serves up the T b/c unlike Roddick and other pro's, my power serves don't have a ton of topspin.
     
    #78
  29. Woodstock_Tennis

    Woodstock_Tennis Rookie

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    223
    Ya until you see someone serve 120+ in person you have a bad gauge on speed. I remember the first time i saw it come at me, was playing some guy from croatia. He was 6'3 210 lbs of muscle. If I wasn't watching him hit it I'd swear it was a gun shot. The loud pop followed by the buzzzz as the balls coming at you takes some getting use too.
     
    #79
  30. MasterTS

    MasterTS Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,124
    Yep. Exactly. There was a club pro that I took lessons with that could hit 120-130mph on average and with consistency. He was clocked at 138mph before. And when you see his serve its almost unreturnable. Just blocking the serve back hurt my wrist. The main distinct thing is the loud boom sound. As if someone fired a gun!

    And BB knows who I'm talking about.. Apparently they know each other or something....
     
    #80
  31. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Great point. Now imagine a tennis ball going 120 mph being captured on a low quality video, and that video being uploaded to YouTube, which makes the quality even worse. By this time, you would not be able to see or track a ball as small as a tennis ball going 120+.
     
    #81
  32. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,626
    That statement is not true.
     
    #82
  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Please explain.

    Here is a video of Sampras on youtube. Granted it is further away, but the resolution from a tv camera is far superior than an ordinary video camera. Sampras serves about 120. In this video and countless others of pros you can't see or track the ball after he hits the serve. Only after the bounce can you clearly see it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uVNmpMf1Ow
     
    #83
  34. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,626
    Maybe I’m being to harsh, but those statements are just not absolute.
    From the angle distance he shot his video, you would be able to see it.
    BTW, I can see ball in that Sampras serve. Yes, the video is ugly and you can not by any means tell the speed of that ball. However it did appear to have very good placement and a good kick (Sampras serve). Yes, you are correct, if many fames are deleted and the resolution is reduced, it can be so bad you may not even be able to tell if it is tennis or something else. If he posted a picture of the radar gun with 120 on it, would you believe then? Most likely not. I can not tell how hard he hit that serve from a small video that has been compressed. I can tell you though if you miss-hit 120+ serve, it hurts.

    All this about the ball would be going up at the fence and so forth is out of comparison also. You do not know the distance to the fence.
    Mike
     
    #84
  35. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    I totally agree. My point being, using Noskillz' observation, that it would be nearly impossible to clearly track a tennis ball traveling 125 mph in such a short distance, using a crappy video and then uploading it to youtube, which results in an even lower quality image.

    Quite to the contrary, if you read everyone one of my posts I have clearly stated I don't doubt he could hit that speed, and have never stated otherwise. It is clear he has extremely good mechanics, which result in a very good serve, with very good racquet head speed, and could clearly enable him to hit that type of speed.

    I can say with certainty that is not a 125 mph serve. I have countless times faced guys hitting up to and over 120, including guys I have coached. The serve on the video does not come close. Even if it was 100 mph, there is a gigantic difference between 100, and 120.

    I agree, as it could also brake your wrist, which I have seen happen. There is a tremendous amount of power/energy, and spin in a serve going that fast, and if your racquet twists or your wrist snaps back it could lead to a hurtful experience.
     
    #85
  36. MasterTS

    MasterTS Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,124
    Nice quote!

    About a hundred thousand joes and probably more can hit serves at 100mphs... You can cut that number exponential for the ones that can hit 120mph..
     
    #86
  37. emcee

    emcee Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    708
    I thought it's common knowledge that booth radar guns aren't accurate.

    You can tell it's not a 125 mph serve simply by looking at his service motion. I mean, compare how coiled a pro who can serve 125 is to ZPTennis. If he can really serve 125, he must be able to serve 140+ with more pro-like technique. And not many people can do that.

    The video looks pretty weird to me. I'm not saying it's definitely doctored but it definitely looks...weird.

    And for the record, I don't claim to serve that fast. I think I might be in the 90 range but that's it.
     
    #87
  38. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,415
    I really don't see how someone could look at the video and say with certainty how fast the serve is or isn't.

    The toughest serve I've faced in person was Luke Jensen. He came to the club where my brother plays and held a clinic, and at the end of both the adult and junior sessions he had a contest to see who could return his serve the best. I got some decent racquet on his flat serves. I asked him afterward and he guessed that the ones he hit to me were probably between 115 and 120. The ones that absolutely killed me were when he switched to his left hand and spun it down the middle of the deuce court to my 2-handed backhand; I just couldn't get to it.

    Anyway, my regular hitting partner occasionally serves close to the speed of Jensen's flat serves, and over 100 pretty consistently. So I've seen 100 a lot and I've seen 120 once or twice, and all I know is that I definitely couldn't say for sure which of the two ZPT is hitting in the vids there. It's just too hard to tell. As for comparing to video of pro serves, it's not going to look the same, for one due to the angle you're watching from, and two, a pro's serve at the same speed as a casual player will usually have much more spin. I also don't think you can tell how fast it is based on the technique, and as far as that goes I'm pretty sure I've seen pro players with fairly similar motions.

    ZPT - If you say you've been accurately clocked on a radar gun and have a pretty good idea of how fast your serves are, and you think those in the video are over 120, then I for one will take your word for it. Beyond that, I'd advise you to just let it go. If they don't believe you then you probably aren't going to convince them.
     
    #88
  39. lzclzclzc

    lzclzclzc Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    170
    125 is pretty damn fast.....
     
    #89
  40. tennisfanatic

    tennisfanatic Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    at tennis courts!
    Drakulie

    If you have time to video your serve it would be nice. i want to see your serve.:) I'll post mine too. I'll ask my friend to video my serve during tournament.
     
    #90
  41. Blue Drop

    Blue Drop Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    323
    You gotta meet a few people. Someone to hit with, you know? A backboard, at the very least.
     
    #91
  42. mj01

    mj01 New User

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    87
    Interesting thread.

    To the original poster, Boojay- I'm no tennis pro, but from a brief glance at your videos, I can tell you that you're never going to hit as hard as you'd like until you shift your weight better. You have to get all your weight leaning into the ball. You're using almost all arm, which is probably why that arm is getting sore.

    As for big serves in general, I think the people who have mentioned the sound are dead on. A really huge serve just sounds very different from a normal one. I'm the proud possessor of a pretty big first serve (big enough to give decent, 4.0 level players problems on pure velocity), but I really have no clue how fast its going. I've played against one guy who I would say indisputably had it all over me in terms of pace. He was 6'2", about 190-200 pounds of muscle, and a former college baseball pitcher. The sound his serve made was just unreal. It almost sounded like he was cracking his frame. And when he hit one really flat, it seemed like the ball was squashing down into the court so much that you could see the compression for a millisecond, before it just exploded past.

    Here's the thing, though- if you play a good, solid returner, its not going to matter how hard you hit it if you put it right on their racquet. It will come back almost every time. So the best question to ask about a first serve is not how hard its hit, but how many easy points it gets the server.
     
    #92
  43. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,026
    Location:
    The Pillars of Creation
    thanks for the tip mj01. i'm taking lessons now for the first time so when we get to the service portion, i'm sure he'll tell me the same thing. I've tried the weight thing before and I just can't hit the ball comfortably. Something to work on in the future.....and hopefully save my arm.
     
    #93
  44. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    573
    Since reading this and related threads, I have been watching where serves bounce second time. When I serve down the middle and it lands in the service box within a foot of the corner, it hits the back fence at the very bottom before the second bounce. When I land it this accurately in a match(happens once every match or two), it is an ace at the 3.5/4.0 level. My serve is about as flat as possible.

    I previously thought this serve was about 90 mph, but then I saw during the US Open that some of the women's serves clocked below 100 were hitting the back wall(substantially further from the baseline than the fences in my club) at some height.

    That would make my serve about 75 to 80 mph. That makes not just me, but also the people aced by this serve, pretty pathetic :(
     
    #94
  45. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    4,405
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Hard to say from the low frame video but I would say his serve could be between 100-120mph. I have had my own serve clocked with a quality radar gun at 110mph. Most of the 4.0 guys that I play with serve around 90mph.
     
    #95
  46. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    Maverick, you're serve is not pathetic. To the contrary, the serve you describe has good placement. Also, the women's serves you are referring to have more spin, which will tend to bounce up higher. As you pointed out, your serve is very flat.
     
    #96
  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    I am going to try to post a vid within the next week. I am trying to borrow a radar gun, and camera.
     
    #97
  48. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,026
    Location:
    The Pillars of Creation
    so i spoke to my instructor today about my serve and not surprisingly you were right, mj01. Basically, my serve is all arm, but he also pointed out I'm gripping the racquet too tightly and need to relax my grip--another reason why my shoulder and back hurt after a hard serving session. Apparently, I need to place more emphasis on swing speed as opposed to putting muscle into it. It's kinda weird because it doesn't feel like I'm hitting hard at all, but the ball still takes the same trajectory as before. I'm definitely not hurting after hitting about 80 or so hard serves. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me though..........yet again.

    Sucks cuz I was getting 50 to 55% of my first serves in with my current form.
     
    #98

Share This Page