Etiquette When Winning

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Aurellian, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    so its fine to hit drop shots whenever you want, EXCEPT when you think it shouldn't be done. very clear, not arbitrary at all.

     
  2. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    So drop shots = trick shots? :rolleyes:
     
  3. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I am trying to imagine what I would do if I had Blake as my partner.

    Here we are, beating our opponents senseless. We are up 6-0, 5-1 in 45 minutes, and opponents struggle to win points.

    Nevertheless, Blake pulls out his bag of tricks. First, he smirks as he hits a drop shot that opponents don't attempt to chase. Embarrassed, I tell him to just finish things out normally, but he blows me off and says he can hit whatever legal shot he wants. He then hits an underhand serve.

    I guess I could walk to the net, shake hands and retire. Better that than be a participant in such unsporting behavior.
     
  4. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Seriously what do some people have against drop shots?
    It is a perfectly legal and normal shot like any other shot in tennis.
     
  5. Silent

    Silent Semi-Pro

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    Legit question : what if one wants to execute certain tough shots in a match situation and wants to take the opportunity of the big lead in case it doesn't work?

    EDIT: for the purpose of introducing those shots in one's game in the future
     
  6. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    yes, this is what I am asking
     
  7. RogueFLIP

    RogueFLIP Professional

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    You know sometimes being ahead doesn't always mean victory is assured.

    Recent situation such as yours, where I was ahead 6-3, 5-0 in a fairly I know I'm going to win type of match, serving for match, things just went all to hell. Couldn't get a serve in, and anything I touched wasn't anywhere near the court. Got broken, and I just felt I had to do whatever I had to do to get off the court because I was choking, and was having a total system failure.

    So I did exactly what you did. Drop shot'ed all the returns. Bc any swing I took seemed to launch the ball. Got a lucky net cord at match point, but pulled it off for the victory.

    So I understand the context of the OP's question, but in my situation, it's possible that my opponent did not pick up I was choking, and may have thought I was being "bushy" with my end match tactics....

    But bottom line, I do whatever I have to do to win. If my opponent has a problem with my shots, that's THEIR problem.
     
  8. RogueFLIP

    RogueFLIP Professional

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    Absolutely, why not?


    What if he told you first what he was going to do?

    I just had your exact scenario. 6-0, 5-1, opponents couldn't buy points...I'm serving for the match in my 2nd ever USTA doubles match. Except I ask my older, more experienced partner can I try a body serve at 1st serve pace as my 2nd serve? He says sure go ahead. It works, "Nice serve" from my opponent.

    I ask if I can do a trick drop shot off the next return of my serve? Sure, he replies, knock yourself out. That works, and all 4 of us have a good chuckle.

    I ask, let me try to hit at the net guy. Affirmative says my partner. Induces an error.

    Big lead, good time to experiment with out of the box tactics IMO. No sour grapes at the end by anyone.
     
  9. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    So when your partner hits a winner, and you are winning, it is your normal practice to tell your partner to quit it and play normally? And you think its good sportmanship to quit a match because you think dropshots and underhand serves are too mean? Truly ridiculous.

     
  10. stapletonj

    stapletonj Semi-Pro

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    blake, esq

    Fellow practitioner. I understand the gladiatorial nature of practicing law and how you would feel about this. The point I think the others are making is something that I am sure you see in your practice. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

    If you have a slam dunk rear ender case that you are sure you are going to get a directed verdict on liability the first time you ask for it, do you really ask for a default because their answers to your interrogatories were late because your opponent just passed the bar and was on vacation when the time ran? IT really is a pretty close analogy. (No analogy is ever perfect and they all break down when pushed too far)



    See the earlier post I made about the progression of "owning" a particular shot. It's a tricky balance, I admit, but this is a sport involving humans.

    Golf is a little different. If you are up 15 strokes on the 15th hole and you tee off on a par 4 with your one iron, because you want to work on it, that's OK. (Although, according to Lee Trevino, that would make you greater than God...)

    Kind of like Paterno's advice to his athletes about histrionics in the end zone when they scored a touchdown....."Act like you've been there before"
     
  11. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Mmmm, I see what you're saying, but I don't agree.

    We've all been in the situation where we are dominating. Yes, you could decide this is the time to work on some stuff.

    Is a blow-out the time to work on some stuff? No. Clearly not.

    I think the most courteous thing to do in tennis is to continue to play in whatever fashion you played to get your big lead. When you have finished the job, invite your opponents to play a practice set. That is when you pull out your trick shots, your fancy formations, your tweeners, your non-dominant hand play.

    This actually has come up in the past. I have had partners suggest that we start doing some signaled poaches and formations when we have a big lead. I say the same thing: "Nah, let's just finish them off and then see if they want to practice."
     
  12. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    It isn't about the shot---it's about the timing and the clear perception to 99% of the audience that this particular instance is simply rubbing the other guy's nose in it. Drop shots are fine, and there is nothing wrong with using them. If you wanted to practice your drop shot, you could have tried one in game 1, another in game 3, another in game 5, etc. But to pull the first one out at 6-0, 5-1 looks for all the world like nothing more than showboating and attempting to embarrass and humiliate your opponent. Surely you can see that.
     
  13. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    The original question asked if it would be considered inappropriate to hit drop shots to your opponent when leading 5-1. Based on the total number and variety of responses I have read here, I would say the reasonably overwhelming majority say yes, it would be inappropriate and look like you were rubbing it in. That's the answer. If you feel differently, go ahead and do it. The response you get from your opponent will tell you whether or not you made the most judicious choice. And if his response doesn't matter to you, there was no reason to pose the question in the first place.
     
  14. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    You speak in platitudes and take unwarranted factual liberties. You assume consensus when none exist. I think it's about 50/50.

    You fail to comprehend nuance which causes your responses to be off target.

    if you are simply posting your own views, ok, cool, whatever,...I like to respond to my own questions as opposed to what's actually asked too but I think you don't realize you are doing this.

    Did you not say you were done posting on my threads?

    The question I posed was if it is impolitic when ahead to practice certain shots--for me it is a drop shot return. I think some people would be ok with it and others would eschew the practice...just as some would say it's ok to serve hard at or aim at women in mixed doubles....I would never do such a thing because its ungentlemanly. If I lose a tennis match so what, but I am not going to be sending 115mph bombs downrange at some soccer mom.
     
  15. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    True, I did say I was going to stop posting on your threads.

    Somehow, though, reading your posts is like watching a bad horror movie. You know it's garbage, and there is nothing of any redeeming value in it, but something in you can't resist watching it to its bloody, pointless, but very predictable end. It's like you're the "Nightmare on Elm Street---Part VII" of the message board.
     
  16. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I love you too bro...any tips on how to hit that drop show return?
     
  17. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    Quoted for accuracy!
     
  18. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    I just don't see my hitting one or more drop shots as bringing my inner gladiator to a match. If I am losing, I really don't care if my opponent hits a screamer top spin down the line that I cannot get to, or a dropshot I cannot get to. I guess I am just surprised that many on this board see a difference between about getting dropped shotted and losing a point, versus getting a top spin down the line and losing a point--you still lose the point. And if it is more than one point, same thing.


     
  19. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    For whatever it's worth, I agree with you on that point.

    If the guy who is up 5-1 decides to play a shot that is inferior to the shots he has been playing, I'll thank him for giving me a bit more hope at coming back than I deserve.

    If he plays a shot at 5-1 that is superior to the shots he has been playing, I'll thank him for not using those shots until that point.

    Either way I'm not going to get upset or embarrassed that the guy is beating me with legal shots.
     
  20. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    Selectively.
     
  21. stapletonj

    stapletonj Semi-Pro

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    the drop shot is probably a bad example of "working on a shot" as it probably has the most potential of being seen as showboating/grandstanding/taunting/disrespectful behavior.

    same with underhand serving. perfectly legal, but, bad form, old chap

    no one would fault you for running around your forehand to work on your backhand a bit, or hitting short to draw the opponent up so you could work your passing shot.

    IT's just that the "dropper" has a bit of a reputation.

    Also, it is a question of how MUCH do you change your play. Hitting one dropper a game, not so much. 3 or 4 in a row, you risk becoming, again, "that guy".
     
  22. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Thank you sir
     
  23. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

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    I think any tactic is fair, but not always prudent. If your opponent is tired at the end of a hot day, and ready to hang it up, just continue with the normal shot pattern that you have been winning with all match long. If you start hitting drop shots, I am going to think you are a jerk, and then I might get a little mad. For me, at least, nothing puts energy back into my game like a bit of anger. Before you know it, your opponent is serving for a tiebreak, and you are back on your heels. Finish the match and don't try to be cute.
     
  24. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Another question:

    Is it ok to drop shot older men with their wives looking on? I normally try not to do this and prefer to prevail the manly way, but is it bad form or considered disrespectful?
     
  25. NoQuarter

    NoQuarter Rookie

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    My wife would think you were a p***y for trying the drop shot....so sure....go ahead.
     
  26. vandre

    vandre Hall of Fame

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    what are you playing for? a trophy? a league title? a steak dinner? are your teammates surrounding the court giving you the "thumbs-down" signal like a crowd at the coliseum while your captain is making slashing motions across his throat?

    personally, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to be responsible for putting the guy on the shelf. apparently i'm not as good as some folks here who need to work on their dropshots because at this point, the dropshot is the last thing I need to work on. furthermore, I don't think it makes much sense to "practice your dropshot" against an opponent such as this because even if it works on this type of opponent, a more mobile or younger player would probably run it down. that's who you should practice the dropshot against imho.
     
  27. IA-SteveB

    IA-SteveB Professional

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    I'd say it would make you a delta bravo, if you know what I mean.
     
  28. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    Ahhh... the drop shot...

    I'm new to Tennis, Tennis Etiquette and Tennis Sportsmanshp. I am having difficulty understanding the almost universal disdain for...
    1. The drop shot
    2. The Pusher... more specifically the the player who lobs or hits soft
    Why is it OK for one to move their opponent side to side but not up and down? Isn't the drop shot a "high risk/high reward" shot?

    So what if someone hits soft balls and slows the game down? There's no rule against a specific style of play... I find most pushers to be disciplined and methodical in their approach to the game.

    There are plenty of practices that bother me more than any particular shot or play in competitive play...

    People who catch an errant service toss on their racquet (1st occurrence, I give a warning... 2nd, I remind them that it's a fault)
    calling a shot out/long/wide before the ball actually lands.
    ungentlemanly ball exchange (I always gather up the balls and hand them to my opponent or hit/toss them softly over)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  29. rh310

    rh310 Professional

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    I particularly love it when that happens, and I run it down and get the ball past you. The fire in my wife's eyes when that happens is priceless.
     
  30. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    That situation is unlikely to occur, most men "play" tennis to get away from the ol' lady and if she is present will be reading a book.
     
  31. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Off topic, but that isn't a fault. The rules specifically allow it.
     
  32. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Really. You can't catch the ball if you screw the service toss up? Thanks. I played one guy who did this about six times in a tournament.

    Please confirm this is in fact the case
     
  33. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    Man, I have seen more atercations when dudes bring their old ladies to watch them play and they start getting beat
     
  34. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Right, and why not because during the whole service process the ball is often released and touched by the racket many times. ;)
     
  35. NoQuarter

    NoQuarter Rookie

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    Very insecure men.
     
  36. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    Nope, not a fact
     
  37. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    And many of us are....
     
  38. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    In this case I don't think there is anything wrong with hitting drop shots. I had this happen to me a few months back in my 3rd match in a tournament. I had huge momentum going into the 3rd set but my legs were completely shot. I started out the set well but after the 3rd drop shot I knew I was lost. I wasn't upset at all, and actually have to give a lot of credit to my opponent for doing it as it wasn't his normal shot.

    On the original thread topic though, I had a match last weekend against someone who was much better than I was. It was clear from the first game I had no hope, but my opponent's serve was a bit off so he decided to work on it which probably gave me a few extra games. As much as this hurt my pride, I was happy to get the few extra games so the score was not quite as embarrassing. In this case, he clearly was working on his game. In this case there was an audience so had he been messing with me by hitting drop shots I would have definitely been angry.
     
  39. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    "...A player, who tosses the ball and then decides not to hit it, is allowed
    to catch the ball with the hand or the racket, or to let the ball bounce..."

    Wow my bad... I should go back and apologize to tose folks A pro had explained that this is not allowed. Should have read the rules... Still off topic but I'm not sure if this rule makes any sense... How do I distinguish between a underhand serve and a missed toss that was attempted to be caught with a racquet that lands 3 feet in the court? How does one interpret the rule in the event the ball struck the racquet and was not caught?
     
  40. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    How often do you have to deal with this problem where you are not sure someone misses the ball trying to serve or was just catching a bad toss?

    I'd say never, and if it happens give the opponent the benefit of the doubt, problem solved.

    The rule makes sense because the serve is a process. I mean you have the ball in your hand, can it touch the racket and if so how many times? Well, how many times do people bounce the ball with the racket? Then how many times can it leave the hand and you can catch it again? Well just count how many people bounce the ball.

    If one condition is met it is even allowed to toss the ball with the racket. :)
     
  41. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    Sigh. Brother, you can do whatever you want. People will form their own opinions of the rightness or wrongness of it.
     
  42. Kahlz

    Kahlz Rookie

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    I remember seeing both sides of this coin at one of those high school singles tournaments where multiple schools come and all play at one location. The school I am referring to had their #1 and #2 players both state ranked. They were both at such a high level that playing in high school probably wasn't fair to most of their opponents and definitely wasn't fun for them either because they never got a challenge.

    On this day, I finished my match and went to see who was playing and they happened to be playing on side by side courts. Being that they were the highest seeds, they were playing some of the much lower seeds. Needsless, to say the match was pretty much over for their opponents before it even started. They both easily won (probably bagels for both) but they did it in completely different ways. The #1 player was all business. He ended points quickly and obviously was trying to finish the match in a way that wasn't embarassing or painful for his opponent.

    The #2 player just toyed with his opponent and it was pretty sickening to watch as a spectator. At one point, he got a sitter at the service box and proceeded to hit a slice with so much backspin that it bounced right back over to his side of the net and into his hand (one of those moments that would have been badass if he wasn't being such a jerk). The sad part was his opponent had no idea what would happen when the ball bounced and so he just stared in utter confusion when the ball shot backwards.

    In the end each player's personality will dictate what they do in this situation, but I would never want to be toyed with and embarrased, so I try not to do it to other people either.
     
  43. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    What's up partner? You still in Vegas?How is the internship going? Did you play in the Green Valley tournament?

    Let me know if you want to fire'm up again. I have a guy who you might enjoy playing with....he's a step faster than me, young, and a solid 4.0. Hit me up if you want.
     
  44. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    Based on his "serve thread," with incredible 110+ mph serve and serve percentage at pro level, the OP needs no advice from mortals here. In fact he should simply prolong the set so his trophy model girlfriend can watch him toy with the opponent so she'll desire him even more.

     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  45. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    I learned my lesson re this the hard way;it cost me being undefeated in my level for tournament play.

    I was up one set and up 40-love (4-2) and was trying to ace this cat for the V. Well, it was 110 in Vegas that day and I ran out of gas and double faulted the set away! (The problem with my no form guerrilla serve is that it breaks down after about an hour.) When I sat down, my ankle suddenly locked up as I had sprained it in the first set trying to execute a jumping smash....I had a bit of a crowd watching me and wanted to put on a show...I got up to play an entire third set in the 110+ heat at 1 hour 43 minutes and got beat....the dude had been beaten badly by me on two prior occasions--including one breadsticking---and brought out a crowd of 6 or so fans plus his USTA employed woman...He brought his A game and to his credit, did not miss a shot and took the third set 6-4...

    That was the last time I toy with an opponent again and not finish him off. The next day the entire club was talking about my loss....he was quite proud of beating me.

    My gf, who knows nothing about tennis, told me," that's what you get for messing around. " She was correct.
     
  46. stapletonj

    stapletonj Semi-Pro

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    "At one point, he got a sitter at the service box and proceeded to hit a slice with so much backspin that it bounced right back over to his side of the net and into his hand"

    which would therefore make it the hapless lower seed's point. wonder if the do*chebag player was man enough to acknowledge this?
     
  47. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    Heh, well who needs someone (*ahem*) saying this exact thing earlier in this thread when you can skip all that pesky reading and go learn the lesson first hand! :D
     
  48. Aurellian

    Aurellian Semi-Pro

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    He should have let the ball bounce first before touching it, correct?
     
  49. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Yes. Because until it bounces twice it's live - whether the guy was close enough to tap it down for a winner or not.
     

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