Extent of racket drop

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by gzhpcu, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    since its a kicker the body alingment is a little different. but notice the contact point is still between the shoulder and head giving jolly that great position of the contact point where the racquet is angled left and not straight with the arm
     
  2. larry10s

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    srtaight from the right side would be best imho.contact point relative to the court and relative to your body can be seen with no angle distortion. if you can do all three serves that would be great.
     
  3. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Ok, I will shoot some like that.

    Will need a way to differentiate which serves are which on the high speed.

    Maybe I will throw catcher signs before each serve.

    J
     
  4. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    I am looking at it in relation to the feet.
     
  5. larry10s

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    julietta look again . a line straight down from the contact point goes just inside jollys left foot as i see it.
     
  6. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No pain in almost 2 years. It aches and is sore if I play too much, or try to serve too hard in the cold, but I played 4 sets of singles in high 40's low 50's last sunday (2 off the ground, 2 S&V) and felt fine the next day.

    I have my body pretty well figured out now, so I know when to listen to it, and when to tell it to shut up.

    Pretty much know my limitations, when I can push it, and when I can't.

    J
     
  7. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    see pics post 146
     
  8. gzhpcu

    gzhpcu Professional

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    I will try and summarize this thread. I was wondering if increasing the racket drop, by say, 6 inches would make much of a difference, seeing that the motion of the racket only starts to accelerate prior to impact about half way up from the point of maximum racket drop. I see now that it offers advantages, for the following reasons:

    • The extent of the racket drop is somewhat analogous to arm pronation: by itself, it does not directly contribute to racket speed , but is an indication that your arm is nice and loose and that biomechanically you are properly loading all the necessary components of the kinetic chain for an optimal serve (extension of the legs, loose arm, movement of mass of the racket).
    • The greater racket drop stabilizes the trajectory and sets the racket better in postion for the ensuing impact of the ball.
     
  9. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Did Gomez have a 135+ serve??
     
  10. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Effective arm length

    A greater racket drop increases an effective arm length.
    A force momentum is proportional to an effective arm length.
     
  11. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Julian, what do you think of the idea that the greater distance covered with good racket drop, will be covered in roughly the same time, thus equating to more racket speed.

    Also, the racket head being low insures the the racket starts the track to the ball in the proper slot to be drug handle first towards the contact point and minimizes the tendency for the racket face to start to arc prematurely.
    I understand that TP.net has a new issue on the "upward swing" that pretty much confirms what I've been teaching for the last 9yrs about getting into the launch position with good racket drop, leg drive to dragging the racket up with delayed elbow extension ; covering a longer distance in about the same time for greater racket speed and ulnar diviation whipping over the top.
     
  12. gzhpcu

    gzhpcu Professional

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    Not sure I agree.

    Most of the acceleration takes place just before impact.

    The effective arm length at impact is the same.

    Look at the modern forehand: the women have a huge takeback, going to the left side of the body, the men don't. Their takeback stays on the right side of the body. Who has the more powerful groundstrokes?
     
  13. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    It's a trade off for the men. They would have even more pace with a bigger turn, but would lose the fine control they need to make enough shots.
     
  14. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    gee i thought after almost 200 posts and your summary we had put this to rest.:cry:
    statement above correct but its in %. longer distance ie distance from racquet drop to "just before impact" allows greater speed (longer runway to build up speed) so starting speed for "most acceleration" to occur is greater .
    thats how i visualize it. dont have pictures or data to prove
    .gzhpcu since you are more a biomechanical man im sure you will let me know if this theory is flawed:)
    second opinion
    the racquet drop is movement dependent phenomenon.leg drive etc kinetic chain etc all working in optimum timing to "push the arm down" and the body goes up
    so....... deeper drop is an indirect indicator of the other parts working in synch. thus better serve.
     
  15. gzhpcu

    gzhpcu Professional

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    Larry,
    That I agree with. Just not with the formulation about arm length, the way I understood it.
     
  16. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Please see my post at a different forum posted 5 minutes ago

    Please visit a different forum
     
  17. gzhpcu

    gzhpcu Professional

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    Made my reply there... :)
     
  18. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    So...ummm... If my racquet drop is about down to my knees, why can't I serve 140mph?

    lol

    [​IMG]

    J
     
  19. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    cause racket drop and delayed elbow extension, leading into great launch position are Dependant on the basic fundamentals being very solid. You have a couple of issues with balance and toss that hold you back from your full potential (and launch position).

    That said, you have a very big serve and I'd love to see what a slam quality radar would read on your best ones.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  20. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Been working pretty hard on balance, not falling off to my left, and my flat serve this last year. My back has been bad for almost a month now, so I haven't been able to serve worth a hill of beans, but it is getting better, so once it stops fighting me I will get some new video.

    I would guess on pro radar that the better ones would be in the upper 120s but not quite 130. I for sure feel like there is more to go, which is why I am so hell-bent on improving it at any cost.

    J
     
  21. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    This is my most recent video of flat serves, starts with regular speed, then from 2:10 on is 210fps high speed slowmo.

    http://vimeo.com/13793938

    Still feels like there is plenty of room for improvement.

    J
     
  22. gzhpcu

    gzhpcu Professional

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    Nice serve J011yroger. A small comment: I was just wondering if you couldn't eliminate the pronounced hitch, by slowing down the arm motion during your initial take back. Seems like you start the arm motion a bit too quickly, practically stop at the trophy position, and then release. Start off slow and lazy. Could help your overall rhythm...

    P.S. Another point I noticed (this might be controversial and is my opinion): After impact the face of your racket does not look out towards the right, but rather down towards the court. Might be an indication of not enough inner shoulder rotation (major source of power), resulting in more overall arm pronation and speed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  23. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    When I serve my best I take back coil and settle very slowly, then go up and get the ball.

    My toss is absurdly high, and I like to settle under it, when I try to toss lower or eliminate the pause, I feel rushed, and contact the ball too low.

    I don't know why it is that I feel the need to gather myself under the ball, but any attempts to change it have met with dismal failure.

    I understand that a lower toss and smoother motion would be more consistent, especially in wind or bad lighting, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make currently.

    J
     
  24. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Ya, I think because I don't hit the inside of the ball as much as I should. Going to experiment with it a little differently, might be a big help.

    I think I am hitting a little too down on the flat ones, and more speed could be gained by hitting across more.

    J
     

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