F1 2014, a stuttering start?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Vcore89, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    You're joking right? Without the safety cars, Hamilton would have struggled to get on a podium. Again you show you didn't really catch the bigger picture.
     
    #51
  2. oztennisfan

    oztennisfan Rookie

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    every point i made was valid, as is yours about the safety cars, which was part of the race and affect every driver / strategy differently.

    for what its worth after the second safety car nico was third, behind vergne, hamilton was 5th, nico pitted when he couldnt pass vergne, hamilton passed vergne straight away then made up the time to be ahead of nico for his second stop. hamilton still drove well, despite the safety cars and deserved his spot on the podium.
     
    #52
  3. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    The strategies are made before the race. You cannot argue for Hamilton being on a different strategy unless you want the team to BANK on safety cars that will affect Nico negatively and help propel Hamilton to the fore. That's an impossible leap of faith. Again, I think Hamilton fully deserved his podium place. I just dislike his paranoia about Rosberg getting help. Hamilton needs to look to himself and be more objective. If Rosberg had gotten past, and won the race, he'd have widened the gap. I fully understand Hamilton's reluctance to let him through. They are both in the championship. That's why it was a bad call. But, with the call having been made, Lewis should still have heeded it. The management made a mistake but he put them in an even worse spot. Everyone is thinking now, can they control their drivers? What are your thoughts on this?
     
    #53
  4. oztennisfan

    oztennisfan Rookie

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    let them fight for the championship. they will both be out for themselves for the rest of the year. its a rare year where there are only two drivers that can win and they are from the same team, any team orders will be seen as favouritism so let them fight it out.
     
    #54
  5. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    hahahahaha it was surely one of the best races i've ever watched on F1. Curiously, on one of the worst tracks (with the A1 Ring following).

    Sad to see Williams' strategists work. They screwed both Massa and Bottas performance with a hideous prime tyre strategy. It was said multiple times this season that the medium tyre Pirelli designed for 2014 struggles to warm. And the track was nowhere near hot... stupid decision.

    Ricciardo, who was only ONE position up from Massa, made the right choice. Option, option, option.
     
    #55
  6. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Ricciardo wins in Spa - Belgian GP

    Ricciardo wins in Spa after Mercedes pair clash

    Laurence Edmondson at Spa-Francorchamps
    August 24, 2014
    [​IMG] © Sutton Images



    Daniel Ricciardo took victory at the Belgian Grand Prix after contact on lap two between the two Mercedes cars forced Nico Rosberg to fight back to second and left Lewis Hamilton down and eventually out.



    The Story of the Race
    • Shock: Daniel Ricciardo once again winning a race, especially after Sebastian Vettel looked best placed to win before his mistake coming through Pouhon.
    • Shocker: Nico Rosberg giving team-mate and title rival Lewis Hamilton a puncture on the second lap. The boos on the podium suggests F1 has a new pantomime villain after what could be a pivotal moment in the championship fight.
    • Best overtake: Fernando Alonso's move on Sergio Perez through Rivage on lap 13 was sublime, as was Valtteri Bottas' ballsy lunge around the outside of Sebastian Vettel through Les Combes on lap 31
    • Worst overtake: Rosberg's failed overtake on lap two has to take this. He was not wrong to have a go, but Hamilton stuck to the racing line and once it was clear it wasn't going to work Rosberg had to bail out. He didn't and his team-mate paid the price.
    • Best lap: Kevin Magnussen's defensive driving towards the end of the race was wonderful to watch. Laps 38 to 40 in particular, as he kept Alonso at bay with some ballsy defensive driving.< b>
    • Worst lap: In the context of the championship, lap two was a disaster for Hamilton. If he's going to win the title he's going to have to do it the hard way.
    • Drive of the day: While there was drama going on behind him, Daniel Ricciardo was absolutely faultless out in front. It's clear we are watching a future world champion in the making Red Bull this season. -- Nate Saunders
    The result extends Rosberg's lead in the championship to 29 but brings a new edge to the title battle after Hamilton failed to finish. The pair made contact at Les Combes on the second lap as Rosberg attempted an unlikely pass on the outside of Hamilton, only to clip the rear of his team-mate as the chicane switched back.


    The incident punctured Hamilton's left rear tyre, which then unravelled and damaged the floor of his car on the way back to the pits. Rosberg sustained relatively minor damage to his front wing endplate, which was remedied at his first pit stop but in doing so handed the advantage to Ricciardo. The Red Bull driver seized his opportunity and, despite a late fightback from Rosberg, took his second consecutive victory.


    At the start of the race, Hamilton got the upper hand a better launch from the grid while Rosberg bogged down and dropped to third behind Vettel. The Red Bull managed to get a run on Hamilton through Eau Rouge and was lined up for a pass at Les Combes before running out of track under braking and taking to the run-off. That allowed Hamilton and Rosberg to have a battle of their own, but it lasted less than a lap before sparking the incident that defined the race.


    A clash between the two was almost inevitable at some point this year, but it was no less dramatic when it finally happened. The ramifications were instantly obvious as the rear of Hamilton's Mercedes twitched and wobbled wide at Malmedy and his left rear deflated. He immediately dropped down the order with the flailing rubber damaging the floor of his car before he made it back to the pits for a new set of tyres. By the time he re-emerged he was 70 seconds behind the leaders with a car that was too damaged to offer any hope of fighting back.


    Rosberg, meanwhile, was in the lead but coming under pressure with his clipped wing, and had Vettel and Ricciardo - who had passed Alonso on lap four - for company. Ricciardo found a way past Vettel on lap five when the German ran wide at Pouhon, which proved to be a crucial moment for his victory charge as it allowed him to unleash the full potential of his Red Bull.


    Rosberg pitted on lap eight for a new front wing and fresh tyres, but after the first round of pit stops his life did not become much easier. As he tried to attack Vettel, who had leap-frogged him in the first stops, he locked up at the final chicane and flat-spotted a tyre. That left him vulnerable to Bottas in the Williams who passed him on the Kemmel Straight.


    Rosberg pitted again on lap 23 to exchange the damaged front tyre, but on resuming this time he got a piece of flailing debris caught on the front of his car. Ricciardo and Bottas were able to wait until laps 27 and 28 respectively to make their pit stops, meaning they could then run until the end of the race on a single set of tyres.


    Rosberg may have originally planned to do the same, but with his Pirelli's starting to lose grip he opted for one final pit stop on lap 34 to attack with soft tyres at the end. In doing so he dropped behind Raikkonen and Bottas, but with fresh rubber and his Mercedes now running at full-strength he easily found a way back to second.


    By that stage he was taking over two seconds per lap out of Ricciardo, which on paper appeared to point towards a final lap showdown. However, the Red Bull started to pick up its pace - again proving how accomplished a racing driver Ricciardo is - and held on for victory.
    © ESPN Sports Media Ltd
     
    #56
  7. Wynter

    Wynter Hall of Fame

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    Following on from that, Hamilton was frustrating. Repeatedly asking to retire the race.

    The difference between Hamilton and Rosberg will come out from the races Rosberg stays on the track and fights for points, he's a shade less talented, but he's got a great focus and work ethic. GO TEAM ROSBERG :)

    Vettel was good in helping Ricciardo by slowing down Bottas which helped greatly.

    Felt bad for Rosberg on the podium, happy the guy stood up for him.
     
    #57
  8. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Jesus Murphy! Only read the first couple lines; will download and watch the race later to leave the details a surprise.
     
    #58
  9. Federer302

    Federer302 Guest

    Great race today. The incident is going to make this season even more interesting. Loving this rivalry.

    The thing I don't like is that Rosberg is now going to be made the villain because of Lewis' words. Makes me even more TEAM ROSBERG.
     
    #59
  10. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Poor Lewis, he must've felt the whole world conniving against him!:-|
     
    #60
  11. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Not impressed by the incident.

    Not impressed at all.
     
    #61
  12. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    What does that mean?

    Hamilton cut across to early, Niko was unable to do anything about it and everyone of the experts saw is as a "racing incident".

    I wasn't impressed with the British fans booing Niko on the podium, that was poor, Hamilton might have the best car but he doesn't have a god given right to win every race.
     
    #62
  13. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    There are an awful lot of ''racing incidents'' I've been unimpressed with over the years. Something being a racing incident doesn't always make it cool. It was anything but cool.

    Nobody wants to see the two main contenders for the title collide with one having his race essentially ended by the other as a result of a collision on lap 2, no matter which way round it happened.

    Oh and also, the commentators believe Lewis held his line, and didn't cut across too early. For whatever reasons, Toto Wolff is siding with Hamilton. This does not mean it was malicious or deliberate though, despite Rosberg's words in the Merc. meeting post race.

    I think this is very clear, though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
    #63
  14. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    #64
  15. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I am liking Rosberg more and more. He has all the attributes of a world champion.

    Hamilton is mistaking F1 for a reality show. He needs to fight on the track and not indulge in mind games.
     
    #65
  16. oztennisfan

    oztennisfan Rookie

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    ridiculous comment. it was 100% nicos fault. he cant race with lewis so he has to use shifty tactics. credit to nico, i thought he was too nice, didnt think he had the mongrel in him to do such things, but if thats what he has to do to win the championship he is proving he is willing to do it.
     
    #66
  17. Federer302

    Federer302 Guest

    I think it will work. I think Rosberg will crumble due to this. Hope not though.
     
    #67
  18. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    He can race with Lewis or he wouldn't be winning the world championship!

    I think he is playing Lewis at his own mind games, it's no tactic to crash into another car unless you can guarantee that you come off better but you can't!
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
    #68
  19. oztennisfan

    oztennisfan Rookie

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    dont think rosberg will crumble i just think lewis will out race him, cleanly. nico has had a lot of luck so far this year when compared to his team mate, pretty much every time they have had a clean, wheel to wheel race with no mechanical issues and no qualifying dramas, lewis has won.
     
    #69
  20. oztennisfan

    oztennisfan Rookie

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    no, he has made the most of the bad luck lewis has had to deal with.
     
    #70
  21. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Apparently Nico is angry at Lewis for not following orders to let him pass in Hungary when he was on three stop and Lewis on two.

    So he is apparently not going to give any quarter.

    It seemed Nico's fault and he was in the best position to avoid the incident, but I think Lewis has misread the political situation.
     
    #71
  22. Wynter

    Wynter Hall of Fame

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    Wonder if hamilton will try and take out Rosberg next race

    Ricciardo to pounce ;)
     
    #72
  23. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Luck is the excuse of losers.
    Hamilton has done nothing but talk, talk, talk.
    There's a pattern of him always being involved in feuds with "teammates".
     
    #73
  24. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Trusting Rosberg difficult now - Hamilton

    ESPN Staff
    August 25, 2014
    [​IMG] © Getty Images



    Lewis Hamilton says he will be wary of duelling with Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg in future after the pair collided at the Belgian Grand Prix.
    Hamilton suffered a puncture on the second lap in Spa after Rosberg, who he had passed at the first corner, made contact with his left rear tyre at Les Combes. After the race it emerged Rosberg had told Hamilton and Mercedes staff at the post-race debrief he had refused to pull out despite knowing contact was inevitable, something Hamilton says will linger in his mind for the rest of the season.
    "Well, when you're out there you have to trust the people to think with their heads and don't do things deliberately," Hamilton said when asked whether he could trust Rosberg going forward. "I asked that question because I'd been told our job and what we'd been told to do is finish for the team. The team is the priority, always - even if they say we can race, the team is the priority. It doesn't mean we can go out there and crash into each other. I thought it was going to be a good day, either way."
    Hamilton does not think he deserves any blame for the collision as he was in front and on the racing line through Les Combes.
    "He said it was my fault and that he could have avoided it. But he didn't want to. If it was the other way round, we know - and you can ask Fernando [Alonso], you can ask all the drivers - when a car is less than half a car length alongside you and you're on the inside, it's your racing line. It's not your job to go massively out your way to leave extra, extra room. And it's not as though there's a wall; look at Sebastian [Vettel] the lap before. He was actually further up. And he knew he wasn't going to go up the outside, he was sensible about it."
    When it was put to him again if he could trust Rosberg in a wheel-to-wheel situation in Monza, Hamilton replied: "I'll just make sure we're not wheel-to-wheel. I don't really know how to approach the next race, but all I know is that I've got to push, I've got a long way to come back from it."
    © ESPN Sports Media Ltd.
     
    #74
  25. oztennisfan

    oztennisfan Rookie

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    come on man, im not a fan of either of them but look at the facts. australia, lewis was the leading driver when his car broke down, he then won the next four races. monaco nico had an infamous 'mistake' during qualifying meaning lewis couldnt do his final qualifying lap, nico has pole on a track thats impossible to pass and gets the win. canada, lewis has break issues and retires a couple of laps after he got ahead of nico and lead the race. spain and germany lewis had break issues during qualifying meaning he spun in one and crashed in the other. in those races lewis started 9th and finished 2nd in spain and qualified 16th and finished 3rd in germany. in hungary hamiltons car caught fire in qualifying meaning he didnt get to set a time and started 21st, nico had pole, lewis finished 3rd while nico finished 4th. in belgium lewis lead the race when nico drove into him effectively ending his race.

    so lets be honest here, the results are obvious, lewis has been leading 3 races when his car broke down or was taken out which is 0% his fault, thats 75 points that he should have banked, when you add the 3 qualifying issues he had to recover from in the race handing nico pole and the win, thats a fair share of bad luck. nicos car has broken down once too, but thats nothing compared to what hamilton has had to put up with.

    nico is still yet to beat lewis in a straight clean fight yet this year. monaco is the only time he has beaten him without mechanical interference, and we all know what happened in qualifying there.

    im a ferrari fan, my team is pretty ordinary these days......
     
    #75
  26. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Why is Nico outperforming Lewis in qualifying then? I don't buy the conspiracy theories, I am sorry. Rosberg had no way of knowing he wouldn't be the one retiring from the race, HAD HE INTENTIONALLY hit Lewis. You know that's true.
     
    #76
  27. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Not necessarily disagreeing with what you've said, but just want to add in how Hamilton had broken an agreement to win in Barcelona I think. When leading 1-2, they agree to turn their engines down to save them but Hamilton turned his engine up so he could beat Nico.
    Don't know if I have all the details but I think that's the gist and I think that was the beginning of the feud, at least when the feud spilled onto the track.
     
    #77
  28. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Nico did let him through last year, so he had a legit reason to expect the orders to be followed.
     
    #78
  29. oztennisfan

    oztennisfan Rookie

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    nico said he could have avoided the incident but chose not to. fair enough. he took the risk and it paid off for him.
     
    #79
  30. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I think you are misconstruing his words. This was not a driver comfortably ahead in the standings knowing that a kamikaze attack would render is opponent unable to overtake him. This was a racing incident between two drivers that would never back down.
     
    #80
  31. Federer302

    Federer302 Guest

    Lewis Hamilton's accusation against Nico Rosberg after Belgian Grand Prix the latest sign of persecution complex

    Mercedes' British driver certainly rivals his hero Ayrton Senna - but only in his perception of being a 'victim'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...x-the-latest-sign-of-persecution-complex.html


    Lewis Hamilton's calculated aside that Nico Rosberg had "deliberately" clipped his Mercedes at Spa‑Francorchamps was extraordinary not so much for the allegation - he has quite a history of these bald, thinly substantiated claims - as for the fact that he had breached the strict confidences of a drivers' briefing to make it. Surely his five years at McLaren, where engineers in white coats toil away in screened-off operating theatres and where the 'spygate' scandal with Ferrari brought a £32 million fine, taught him that Formula One guards nothing so ferociously as its secrets.

    For a man paid north of £20 million a year to make 10 decisions through the compression of Eau Rouge, Hamilton makes some astoundingly cement-brained calls the moment he lifts the visor. Take another example of his victimhood in Belgium, in 2012, when he responded to the indignity of being outqualified by Jenson Button by sending a tweet that disclosed his team-mate's telemetry. To the untrained eye, it was just a squiggle of superimposed linear graphs, but to statisticians in rival garages it helped to provide an invaluable insight into McLaren's rear-wing performance.
    The team, as befitting their space‑age headquarters in Woking, where security protocols have been tightened to the level of a nuclear depot, were incandescent. They sternly admonished Hamilton for flouting the terms of his contract, and instructed him to delete the tweet immediately. He is understood to have done so only under sufferance, for in Hamilton's world he is, whenever it comes to in-house battles, always right.

    He had predicted ahead of this season that he would, given the same Mercedes car, eclipse Rosberg easily. The fact that he trails the German by 29 points with seven races remaining simply feeds his persecution complex.
    Granted, certain incidents of late have suggested a certain misfortune: the engine failure in Australia, the fire in qualifying in Hungary, the puncture he sustained as a consequence of the coming-together with Rosberg at Les Combes. But to accuse his adversary of an act of premeditated chicanery suggests that he is perpetually the one sinned against.

    At this rate, Hamilton will be making good on his veiled threat in Monaco, where Rosberg turned into a siding at Mirabeau to obstruct his final flying lap, to do as idol Ayrton Senna did by shoving his nemesis into the dirt at Suzuka.

    His earlier promise, though, to "break Nico down mentally" is working in the opposite way he intended. Where Rosberg plays the implacable, unruffled Teuton, Hamilton espies a conspiracy around every corner.
    The spat has been such a consistent subplot this year, and so peppered with cliffhangers and the language of jilted lovers, that it almost resembles a Bernie Ecclestone-scripted subplot to stir some intrigue ahead of the double‑points finale in Abu Dhabi.

    However, the row would be nothing like so compelling without Hamilton's strange persecutory delusion. "Nico hit me!" he cried over the in-car radio in Belgium, blame instantly ascribed, in contrast to Rosberg's interpretation of a "racing incident".

    One was reminded of another of his inimitable responses in 2011, when Hamilton invoked Ali G to try to explain why the stewards had penalised him in Monte Carlo. "Maybe it's 'cos I is black," he deadpanned.
    He is far from the only top-rank sportsman to display this diva-like affectation.

    Sergio García made half a career out of wallowing in self-pity, not least in his various contretemps with Tiger Woods, before admitting in defeatist fashion: "I'm not good enough to win a major. I don't have the thing I need to have."
    Hamilton's own complex, though, has far stronger echoes of Senna's. The claims of sharp practice that Senna made against Alain Prost, against Michael Schumacher, against the then FIA president Jean-Marie Balestre, spoke of a man in whom a perception had hardened that everybody was out to sabotage him. At least when Hamilton intimated that Rosberg had intentionally triggered yellow flags in Monaco, Toto Wolff, the Mercedes team principal, had the sense to demolish the argument as "b------t".
    Hamilton offered an early, telling insight into his tortured mentality after receiving a drive-through penalty at the 2008 French Grand Prix, telling those reporters he viewed as over-critical: "I'm very strong mentally. My belief in my ability is stronger than ever and there's nothing that can break me."

    The hyper-intensity of his duel that year with Felipe Massa had parallels with the earlier tensions between Senna and Gerhard Berger, which grew so acute that Ron Dennis once had to play practical jokes on the Brazilian to lighten the mood. Perhaps Hamilton, by his self-casting as the victim in this Mercedes duel, truly is on track in his ambitions to emulate Senna. Just not in quite the way he envisaged.
     
    #81
  32. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    I agree. He's not well, that short one.
     
    #82
  33. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    I'm just surprised they started this before the Constructor's was locked up.
     
    #83
  34. chmee

    chmee Rookie

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    I don't agree with this review at all. It's actually quite one sided, leaving out everything that went in Nico's fashion so far.

    In Barcelona Lewis kept his position probably due to unallowed motor settings, as correctly pointed above.

    As for Monaco there is no telling whether Lewis' could have beaten Nico on his final attempt, as he has been messing up some qualifyings this season (ie Silverstone), without any issues beyond his control. In the race he got beaten, whatever the lay out of the circuit.

    In Canada both drivers allready had the MGU issue as Lewis flew past Nico and subsequently out of the race, whereas the latter managed to finish 2nd with the badly hampered car.

    In Spielberg Nico clearly beat Lewis on the track. In Silverstone it was Lewis who reaped the profits from the technical foes of the (then leading) Nico's car.

    All in all we have a nice battle in our hands heading for Monza:)
     
    #84
  35. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    double post, sorry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
    #85
  36. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Hamilton leads title race after victory in Singapore

    Laurence Edmondson in Singapore
    September 21, 2014
    [​IMG] © Getty Images




    Lewis Hamilton took the lead of the championship with victory at the Singapore Grand Prix after his Mercedes team-mate and title rival Nico Rosberg started from the pit lane and retired.


    The Story of the Race
    • Shock: Nico Rosberg's race effectively ending before it had started, meaning he could only sit and watch Hamilton take over the championship lead.
    • Shocker: Sauber's double DNF left Esteban Gutierrez throwing a tantrum in the garage - an understandable reaction from what has been a rotten, rotten year for the team.
    • Best overtake: Sebastian Vettel refused to take no for an answer when passing team-mate Daniel Ricciardo into Turn 1
    • Worst overtake: Adrian Sutil was lucky to avoid a penalty when he chopped across on Sergio Perez, the incident which brought out the safety car.
    • Best lap: Hamilton gained 3.2 seconds on Vettel when the safety car came in on lap 39, the start of a race-winning stint on the super-soft tyre.
    • Worst lap: Valtteri Bottas' tyres needed just one more lap to hold on to an incredible seventh, but they gave up on him and relegated him out of the points agonisingly close to the finish.
    • Drive of the day: Hamilton was superb throughout, especially after the safety car, but Jean-Eric Vergne's late charge to sixth with his F1 future hanging in the balance was superb with two late moves on Kimi Raikkonen and Valtteri Bottas.
    -- Nate Saunders

    Hamilton won by 13.5s but was made to work for it after a safety car period upset his strategy. Behind him Sebastian Vettel held off Red Bull team-mate Daniel Ricciardo for second, with Fernando Alonso, who also lost out in the safety car period, finished fourth for Ferrari.


    Rosberg could only watch from the Mercedes pit wall as Hamilton crossed the line for victory and with it took a three point lead in the championship - the first time he has led the title race since the Spanish Grand Prix.



    Rosberg experienced an electrical glitch on the grid that meant he failed to make it away on the warm-up lap and had to start from the pit lane. After making slow progress through the field he pitted for a new steering wheel on lap 14 but was unable to select a gear, which brought an end to his race.


    As a result Hamilton had a vacant grid spot next to him at the start and easily led into the first corner. Behind him, Alonso overshot Turn 1 as he attempted to pass both Red Bulls on the outside and had to cede second position to Vettel later in the lap. Hamilton soon built a comfortable lead over Vettel, with the first pit stops coming after just eight laps.


    In the second stint Alonso started to put the pressure on Vettel and took the lead in the second pit stops. However, both Alonso and Hamilton opted for a third set of super-softs while the Red Bulls took on softs. It proved to be a wise decision from the reigning world champions as a collision between Sergio Perez and Adrian Sutil caused a safety car on lap 31.


    It is mandatory for drivers to use both compounds during the race, so Hamilton and Alonso still had to pit while the Red Bulls were able to go to the end of the race. Ferrari took the hit under the safety car and pitted both their drivers - in Alonso's case just seven laps after his second stop. Hamilton, however, opted to stay out on track in the knowledge that his pace advantage would allow him to build a lead when the safety car came in.


    After just five laps he had an 11.5s lead and seven laps later it was comfortably over 25s. On lap 51 his tyres were well past their best and he started to lose time to Vettel, forcing him to pit. The Mercedes pit crew did not miss a beat and got Hamilton back out in 2.9s. He came out behind Vettel but within two laps he was able to use his fresher tyres and DRS to breeze up the inside at the high-speed Turn 6. From that point on only a reliability issue could stop Hamilton, but the car held together to the line.
     
    #86
  37. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I know the chances of two consecutive incidents happening at the same corner, with the cars crashing into the same spot more or less are slim.

    But shouldn't they waited for the safety car to come out first before they brought out that recovery truck?

    Then the weather at Japan, I'm not sure if the conditions were safe to begin with.
     
    #87
  38. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

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    The conditions were fine, they race in far worse than that every year.

    The issue is more to do with trackside procedures and/or safety car usage. They need to have a think about how wet conditions can make everything unpredictable and alter their guidelines to stewards/circuits accordingly.
     
    #88
  39. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Yeah and it's all kind of murky right now. But I read that they sent out the recovery truck/crane before the safety car was deployed.
     
    #89
  40. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    You're supposed to slow down for the yellow flag and especially if they are waved double yellow flags which they were in this case.

    But drivers have been pretty much ignoring them for years and the FIA has permitted it. Without penalties, there's so much pressure for drivers to keep going fast for the competitive advantage.

    Here's another accident happening under yellow flags.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJaZ9I-556w

    Alonso said he ignored the yellow flags and never got penalized for it, even after admitting to it.
    If Alonso needs to ignore flags, imagine the immense pressure felt by a Bianchi who's probably fighting to remain in F1.
     
    #90
  41. chmee

    chmee Rookie

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    << The chance of multiple accidents in one corner in the wet is actually quite high (aquaplaning). But the conditions were by no means critical today. The FIA misjudged the situation after Sutil's crash. I'm not saying a safety car should be deployed automatically on every incident like this (it could be then renamed in 'Maldonado-Car'), but today it would have been necessary.

    Besides the safety car deployment, also the recovery vechile itself should be looked at closely. Obviously Jules' car got chopped off by the main body of the truck thus indicating that it's ground clearance was too high. By all the consideration they give to the aqua-tech barriers and the cars themselves it seems strange to allow such heavy and dangerously build objects on track-side during a race.

    Incidents like this have been close every now and then, so hopefully the FIA will respond properly. And more importantly let's keep our fingers crossed for Jules to come through. Latest news say that his condition has stabilized, whatever that means.
     
    #91
  42. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    If they had left the other car where it was the accident would not have been as bad, but the crane was far back so they took a chance of lifting it out of the way under double yellow.

    The simple rule change is not to allow such tools except under red.
     
    #92
  43. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Excellent post! This has been waiting to happen and FIA should take the blame for it (although we know they won't). The yellow flags are there for a reason!
     
    #93
  44. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    The rain increased and yet drivers remained on intermediates, so drivers need to be forced to be safe.

    Th same goes for the ignoring of double yellow by drivers.
     
    #94
  45. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Now we know for a fact that the sector was under Green flag.
    http://gfycat.com/DirectFlawedHarborseal
    EDIT: Interestingly enough, the FOM (Formula One Management) went through great lengths to try to remove the video from the internet.
    According to an interview I read of Prost in French media, this flag is supposed to be raised after the problematic zone, not at the problematic zone. Not to mention the non-appearance of the Safety Car, but that's another issue.
    From what I've heard from the consulting team on French TV, they said that it's less true than before. The tires were made slightly thinner throughout the years and evacuate water worse than they used to. From my personal viewpoint, I've seen many, many red flags for less rain than that in the recent years. Of course it wasn't during the race, more during qualifiers and practice sessions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
    #95
  46. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Far from fact. The yellow flags would need to be displayed in the preceding section for the drivers to be able to see them and respond to them, so that green flag shown might've been for the section after. He's obviously lost control much further back.

    That they tried to get the clip removed isn't surprising due to its violent nature.
     
    #96
  47. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    I believe a green flag should be raised only after the concerned section. It's not exactly that tough IMO to raise the flag 100 meters later, at the actual re-accelerating zone after the corner, not during the corner. I've personally never seen a green flag raised at the problematic section, ever.

    They tried to claim copyright on the clip (officially). And given the dozen F1 crashes you can freely see on YouTube (on which they have actual TV rights since it shows the official TV coverage), I doubt it's because of it's "violent nature" let's be honest. For example, here's a clip of Massa's crash in Hungary in 2009. For the record his state was grave. Cranium damages, concussion, left eye injury. Fortunately he got out of coma the day after. Of course his season was over.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GiS4vZj9Mlo
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
    #97
  48. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Wasn't nearly as brutal looking and besides that's from live broadcast footage, the world had already seen it so there would be no point in trying to remove it.
     
    #98
  49. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    The bolded part is your subjective opinion.

    There's no point to try to claim copyright on something they didn't tape either. For me it's completely fishy.; especially considering it conveniently hides the crane being on track without safety car and the green flag announcement at the place the crash occurred and in a turn on the top of that instead of being after the problematic zone.

    And if you want more videos in the same genre, I can (un)happily provide more, and not only in F1. It's only an example of a possible outcome. That said, taking a 1 kilogram spring in the helmet sounds pretty violent to me.Tapes are freely available. How come you'd replay Kubica hitting the wall at 250 kph, monoplace destroyed and all (Kubica, Canada '07)on live TV but would hide another man hitting the crane at the same speed filmed by an amateur. Or a minute long replay of Webber making loops mid air, crashing upside down first to the track before finishing in the tyres (Valencia, '10). So on, so forth. Some pilots were killed on spot by a tire or decapitated for example. To me it makes no sense, and I believe it's not the crash they're trying to hide.

    EDIT: I must remind you that bar Monaco, FIA and related organizations have full control over what is shown on TV. It would be very easy to give instruction to the broadcast team to hide those crashes.

    People have already seen or can easily see as bad or worse than this. Worse, the FIA itself already replayed crashes as bad or worse. No point in hiding it unless it displays something problematic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
    #99
  50. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    Although I think there's still possibility to claim copyright on something like this IIRC, but not 100% sure.
     

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