Fed fans: Nadal is the greatest

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tennis_hand, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    clay court player after Bjorn Borg at this moment.

    How not to admit! We witnessed that Fed played a horrible match, but despite this, Nadal showed how good he is on the clay. If you don't believe, just look at the angles that he can create during those rallies. If he can surpass Borg's record, he'll be the greatest clay court players ever.

    but all of this does not change the fact that he could be passed by Djokovic after Wimbledon in the ranking.
     
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  2. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    i think most fed fans admit nadal is the better player on clay. i think for sure he's better than borg. but as u say, rafa really does have to watch him self in the coming weeks. if he slips up at wimby, djoker will overtake him.
     
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  3. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Who is arguing this? Even Rafa says he's still behind Borg.
     
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  4. Morrissey

    Morrissey Guest

    Actually, Fed didn't play horrible. Nadal was a GOD today. Fed just witnessed clay court perfection in front of his eyes.
     
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  5. BlahDow

    BlahDow Rookie

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    If Nadal can match Borg's # of titles, then I'd put him up over Borg as the best on clay...I mean he only beat who might be the GOAT four consecutive times and only lost THREE sets total in those matches @ RG.
     
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  6. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    I am waiting for 6 to call him that.If he doesnt win anymore after this, how can u call him the greatest on clay if Borg has 6 and he has 4.
     
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  7. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is superior to Bjorn Borg, but thats only because nutritional science, training and player size has been increasing since the 70s.

    If Bjorn Borg was given the opportunity to start his life over from infancy and with todays better understanding of nutritional science, he would likely have grown a little taller, bigger and stronger. And with todays superior training compared to the 70s and the ability to learn to play with todays rackets I think we would have to re-evaluate whether whether Nadal is the best claycourter.

    Have you forgotten that Nadal is immensely humble? Look at his domination and his actual game they will tell the true story. Compare the best 4 year window between Nadal and Borg. Borg didn't dominate the Master Series clay championships like Nadal.

    If Nadal had Djokovics personailty he would be saying he's the greatest clay courter ever already.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2008
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  8. BlahDow

    BlahDow Rookie

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    Well it's not like Nadal is the only one getting bigger stronger faster...EVERYONE is.
     
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  9. Morrissey

    Morrissey Guest

    Just wait 24 more months. Nadal is on his way to getting it. Even Borg believes it. But Nadal isn't going to lose that grip for a while.
     
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  10. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    somehow i agree. Borg's future value will be greater than Nadal's present value.
    but in humans, we don't talk about present and future values. ;)
     
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  11. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    The best clay-courter since the switch from wood, for sure. The greatest clay-court since then for sure. The greatest or best ever? Well, Borg played with wood. How can you make a comparison as for better? He'll be greater than Borg if he wins more FO's.

    But as for better, impossible to compare wood vs. modern rackets. It's guess-work. But yea, the greatest ever since the move from wood, for sure, without a doubt.
     
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  12. soyizgood

    soyizgood G.O.A.T.

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    2 of the last 3 major champs to win the tournament without dropping a set are 2HBHers (Borg and now Nadal). Congratulations, Nadal. I like Federer, but you're the best at silencing those obnoxious *******s. :)
     
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  13. Sarzy

    Sarzy Professional

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    Of course he is better on clay that Federer. I'm a huge Fed fan but I'm not stupid enough to not be able to see that.
     
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  14. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Ah, the mystical nutritional science. Just gotta love how the clichees here pile up.

    Borg was as fit as anyone in the top-10 today. Period.
     
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  15. srvnvly

    srvnvly Professional

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    I am a HUGE Fed fan and have to agree the Nadal has the potential to be the greatest clay court player of all time; I think he will be but, not quite yet. Awesome job, Rafa!
     
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  16. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal is a great player on clay, no doubt about that.I think he would have killed Guga on this stuff.
     
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  17. Morrissey

    Morrissey Guest

    I agree 100%. Guga was too "up and down" on clay even. He's lucky he never had to run into Nadal during his day. Fed suffered that fate instead. Too bad for him, because if it weren't for Nadal, Fed would have at least 2 FO's. At least.
     
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  18. BlahDow

    BlahDow Rookie

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    If it weren't for Federer, Nadal would have two Wimbledons.
     
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  19. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Guga beat genuine clay courters at Roland Garros. Roger hasn't.

    Roger played an older Guga with a bad hip in 2004 and went down like a ton of bricks.
     
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  20. Morrissey

    Morrissey Guest

    that's true as well.
     
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  21. nn

    nn Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is greatest on Clay and very very good on other surfaces..2 Wimby final just same as Roddick.. 2-3 semis on hard surfaces (AUS & US OPEN) at age of 22 when Sampras WON his first major...
     
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  22. Roland

    Roland New User

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    Federer didn't play his best but for a small period in the 2nd set, otherwise he played pretty well. How well did Nadal play, 46 winners to 7 unforced errors. You couldn't play better than Nadal did today.
     
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  23. PCXL-Fan

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    Reread my post, thats EXACTLY what i said. :p I said the 'players' (hence the plural) are getting bigger.

    Sure endurance wise as fit, but not as strong. Just compare the physique of nadal to Borg.

    Some of nutritional science is real, not most of it but a small bit of it is real. Training has vastly improved since the 70's thats how tall 6ft8 can now play tennis where as before they were to awkward and tall to be effective on the professional level. Superior training techniques have allowed them to be conditioned into actually being effective on courts.

    Size does matter, thats one of the deficits of Davydenko, he just can't hit the ball as hard as the bigger guys.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2008
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  24. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    What are these techniques? And how could they have made Borg better?

    I understand this argument as it pertains to sports like American football and basketball. There's some serious weight training involved.

    In tennis weight training is often detrimental. Especially to smaller players like Borg.
     
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  25. noeledmonds

    noeledmonds Professional

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    Since when have Masters Series been particularly important? Masters Series did not even exist when Borg was playing. Borg has won 2 more French Open titles and thats all that really matters.

    Its pretty arbituary to look at a 4 year window. You have to look at their whole careers. Incidentally, Borg's best 4 years are very similar to Nadal's anyway on clay.
     
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  26. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    Borg at red clay events outside of Roland Garros between 1977 and 1980:

    Nice, France
    1977 Clay, Draw: 32
    R32 Hrebec, Jiri (CZE) N/A 6-2 7-5
    R16 Dominguez, Patrice (FRA) N/A 6-2 6-1
    Q Prajoux, Belus (CHI) N/A 6-4 6-2
    S Pecci Sr., Victor (PAR) N/A 6-3 6-3
    W Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) N/A 6-4 1-6 6-2 6-0

    Monte Carlo, Monaco
    1977 Clay, Draw: 56
    R32 Schaller, Gilbert (AUT) 64 6-3 6-3
    R16 Amritraj, Vijay (IND) N/A 6-2 6-2
    Q Dibbs, Eddie (USA) N/A 6-4 6-2
    S Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) N/A 6-2 6-3
    W Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) N/A 6-3 7-5 6-0

    Madrid, Spain
    1977 Clay, Draw: 64
    R64 Norback, Jan (SWE) N/A 6-0 6-1
    R32 Prajoux, Belus (CHI) N/A 3-6 6-0 6-1
    R16 Andersson, Birger (SWE) N/A 6-4 6-3
    Q Higueras, Jose (ESP) N/A 6-2 6-2
    S Dibbs, Eddie (USA) N/A 6-2 6-3 6-3
    W Fillol Sr., Jaime (CHI) N/A 6-3 6-0 6-7 7-6

    Barcelona, Spain
    1977 Clay, Draw: 64
    R64 Ruiz, Rafael (ESP) N/A 6-0 6-0
    R32 Moreno, Jose (ESP) N/A 6-3 4-6 6-4
    R16 Pecci Sr., Victor (PAR) N/A 6-2 6-3
    Q Higueras, Jose (ESP) N/A 6-0 6-1
    S Dibbs, Eddie (USA) N/A 6-0 6-0 6-4
    W Orantes, Manuel (ESP) N/A 6-2 7-5 6-2

    Rome, Italy
    Clay, Draw: 64
    1978 R64 Ycaza, Ricardo (ECU) N/A 4-6 6-0 6-2
    R32 Deblicker, Eric (FRA) N/A 5-7 6-2 6-0
    R16 Tanner, Roscoe (USA) N/A 6-2 6-4
    Q Solomon, Harold (USA) N/A 6-2 6-1
    S Dibbs, Eddie (USA) N/A 6-4 6-3 6-0
    W Panatta, Adriano (ITA) N/A 1-6 6-3 6-1 4-6 6-3

    Bastad, Sweden
    1978 Clay, Draw: 32
    R32 Giammalva, Tony (USA) N/A 6-1 6-0
    R16 Carmichael, Bob (AUS) N/A 6-0 6-0
    Q Lewis, Chris (NZL) N/A 7-6 6-3
    S Munoz, Antonio (ESP) N/A 6-4 6-1
    W Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) N/A 6-1 6-2

    Monte Carlo, Monaco
    1979 Clay, Draw: 56
    R32 Bertolucci, Paolo (ITA) N/A 6-0 6-1
    R16 Higueras, Jose (ESP) N/A 6-4 6-4
    Q Clerc, Jose-Luis (ARG) N/A 4-6 6-2 6-1
    S Pecci Sr., Victor (PAR) N/A 6-4 6-1
    W Gerulaitis, Vitas (USA) N/A 6-2 6-1 6-3

    Hamburg, Germany
    1979 Clay, Draw: 64
    R64 Cox, Mark (GBR) N/A 6-1 6-1
    R32 Ocleppo, Gianni (ITA) N/A 6-3 7-5
    R16 Teltscher, Eliot (USA) N/A 4-1 RET

    Bastad, Sweden
    1979 Clay, Draw: 32
    R32 Freyss, Christophe (FRA) N/A 6-4 6-0
    R16 Zugarelli, Antonio (ITA) N/A 6-0 6-1
    Q Martin, Billy (USA) N/A 6-0 6-3
    S Johansson, Kjell (SWE) N/A 6-3 6-0
    W Taroczy, Balazs (HUN) N/A 6-1 7-5

    Palermo, Italy
    1979 Clay, Draw: 32
    R32 Munoz, Antonio (ESP) N/A 6-4 6-0
    R16 Gimenez, Angel (ESP) N/A 6-0 4-6 6-1
    Q Hjertquist, Per (SWE) N/A 6-2 6-4
    S Mottram, Buster C. (GBR) N/A W/O
    W Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) N/A 6-4 6-0 6-4

    Nice, France
    1980 Clay, Draw: 32
    R32 Haillet, Jean-Louis (FRA) N/A 6-0 6-1
    R16 Franulovic, Zeljko (CRO) N/A 6-2 6-2
    Q McNamara, Peter (AUS) N/A 6-2 6-1
    S Luna, Fernando (ESP) N/A 7-5 6-1
    W Orantes, Manuel (ESP) N/A 6-2 6-0 6-1

    Monte Carlo, Monaco
    1980 Clay, Draw: 32
    R32 McNamara, Peter (AUS) N/A 6-2 6-2
    R16 Lendl, Ivan (USA) N/A 6-2 6-2
    Q Clerc, Jose-Luis (ARG) N/A 7-5 6-3
    S Gerulaitis, Vitas (USA) N/A 6-0 6-2
    W Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) N/A 6-1 6-0 6-2

    Nations Cup, Germany
    1980 Clay, Draw: 16
    RR Alexander, John (AUS) N/A 7-6 6-2
    RR Higueras, Jose (ESP) N/A 6-1 6-2
    RR Mayer, Gene (USA) N/A 6-3 7-5
    S Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) N/A 3-6 6-1 1-6

    Two losses over four years. One while he retired when leading.
     
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  27. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

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    They are arguably better. Nadal has four losses in four years on red clay. Borg has two.
     
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  28. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Borg is still the greatest on clay but Nadal is knocking on his door.Can u imagine a match between these 2?The impressive thing about Nadal is his ability to cover the court on clay.
     
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  29. BigT

    BigT Professional

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    Sampras won his first major at 19......
     
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  30. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

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    If it weren't for Nadal, Federer would have three French Open titles. The list goes on and on.
     
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  31. jrstrat

    jrstrat New User

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    Is there a chance that djoker will overtake him at some point this year? yes. Is Nadal also well positioned to overtake Federer and finish #1 by the end of the year? You bet. He has a 100 pt lead over Djoker and over a 200 point lead on Federer in the race rankings.

    The 3 way race for #1 at the end of this year is going to be very interesting this year. Anyone who thinks otherwise does not follow tennis much.
     
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  32. Pancho

    Pancho Semi-Pro

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    I predict Nadal will be #1 in the world this year. Nadal's massive topspin will kill anyone on clay - period. You just have to get him injured to have him lose! Nadal is invincible on clay!
     
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  33. BlahDow

    BlahDow Rookie

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    Ya his topspin dominates clay...but clay is over with now ;D
     
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  34. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

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    good point, you can say Nadal is the most dominant, but can't say hes the greatest quite yet
     
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  35. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    LOL anyone that disagrees with the OP is delusional.
     
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  36. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Nadal is humble and realistic, most of these people are. THey know what they go through. So if I were to chose between whose assessment I would believe between Nadal or you,....well you know the answer.
     
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  37. iamke55

    iamke55 Professional

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    Yes I can imagine a 6-0 6-0 6-0 easily. The 300 Spartans had the best kill to death ratio of any army in history while the American military is pretty dominant today, can you imagine a battle between the two?
     
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  38. noeledmonds

    noeledmonds Professional

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    This is hardly a suitable analogy. Obviously Nadal would beat Borg if Nadal had modern equipment while Borg was still using an old wooden racket. However, if they met on tour then we are presuming that they are playing in the same era, and so are bought up with the same equipment and under similar conditions.
     
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  39. edberg505

    edberg505 Legend

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    When exactly did this happen. As far as I know he has only been to the semi of 1 hardcourt slam.
     
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