Fed has the world record for mishits

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by Attila the tennis Bum, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Watching todays FO final, I have never seen so many framed shots and mishits in my life. I think Roger made the world record today for framed shots.

    I think its because the Kfactor is so thin that it causes so many mishits....even for Roger.
     
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  2. TheSnowMan

    TheSnowMan Semi-Pro

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    It's not his racket, it's roger.
     
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  3. Lloyd Barcenilla

    Lloyd Barcenilla Professional

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    I agree with ^^^ The snowman, Wouldn't it happen every match if it was the racket?
     
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  4. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    It kinda does...but he also hits a crapload of winners. He probably has the world record for winners as well as the world record for framed shots.
     
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  5. Tennis_Nickmo

    Tennis_Nickmo Rookie

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    I'd be inclined to agree with the ridiculous amount of mishits, but I think it was probably Nadal's spin combined with some dodgey bounces, rather than the racket.
     
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  6. samster

    samster Legend

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    it's the erratic bounce on red clay coupled with massive topspin from Nadal.
     
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  7. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    I always thought it was Bjorn Borg that had the world record for mishits.
     
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  8. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    What about the fact that the the K90 has one of the smallest sweet spots on the market?
     
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  9. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Should Federer switch to a 95 ?
     
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  10. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    I would think that a thicker frame would cause more mis-hits. Maybe the small head is causing it? Maybe just the act of taking a sweeping upward swing in an effort to take a kicking ball early...on an uneven surface, sure. But I cannot see blaming it on the thinness of a frame. Sorrymate.
     
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  11. pow

    pow Hall of Fame

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    The mishits are caused by Nadal's topspin on the clay causing really high bounces that get out of a player's norm strike and comfort zone.
     
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  12. jamumafa

    jamumafa Semi-Pro

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    You want the world record for mishits? Mate, come down my club on Sunday morning tennis.
     
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  13. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    My experience with the K90 is that if you hit the ball right then its a thing of beauty. But if you are even slightly off then you are gonna frame the ball.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
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  14. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    You think Fed has a problem with the sweetspot.....dont think so.
     
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  15. aznspongehead

    aznspongehead Rookie

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    Yeah ok, so federer should obviously switch to the Gamma big bubba... lets see if he can win wimbledon with that... lol.
     
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  16. jackcrawford

    jackcrawford Professional

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    Nadal and Federer are in a class by themselves - Federer can beat the others like Davydenko when he has inferior equipment, but not Rafa. He might not win anyway at RG with a 95, but he'd have 1 chance in 10 instead of 1 in a 1,000.
     
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  17. vinnier6

    vinnier6 Professional

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    its not like he is using the k90 anyway....so blaming it on a racquet he isnt using to begin with is a waist of time....
     
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  18. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Not the Racquet

    If you look at the difference in size of a 90 and 95 Sq in racquet, the difference is miniscule. It's not the racquet, it's Fed stubbornly trying to take the ball on the rise, with the heavy TS from Rafa and bad bounces on clay. Notice how he does not have so many mishits on other surfaces.

    It was a bad match from both players today with more UEs than winners from both. Fed just played a bad match today and it was NOT Rafa's doing. 17 break point opportunities, converts on 1, Rafa saves 3 and Fed squandered 14. It could have been straight sets for Fed had he completed only half of his opportunities.

    Very sad play.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
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  19. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    i think i'll give fed the benefit of the doubt on his equipment choices and not recommend anything else.
     
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  20. khd287

    khd287 New User

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    It's deff not his equipment
    You have to give credit to Nadal as well...the amount of spin he puts on the ball is unbelievable.
    Have someone at the net feeding the ball with extreme topspin and I guarantee you won't be able to hit it clean even with a Gamma Big Bubba
    Roger won 10 Grand slams with a 90
    I dont think its his equipment

    Leave Federer and his gear alone... :mad:
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
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  21. kirbster123

    kirbster123 Banned

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    yea, also on clay the ball is a less consistent than hard, its a bit different.
     
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  22. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Exactly! I'd say that 2.5 player with the 135 sq. in. Big Bubba probably has the world record for mishits, and not even on clay and not even playing aginst Nadal! :-o

    Conclusion? It's NOT the racquet!
     
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  23. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    It's simple then. Just don't be slightly off. ;)

    In any case, what you said above is pretty much true of ANY racquet since the sweetspot on ALL racquets is a point and NOT an area.
     
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  24. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    But some points are bigger than others.
     
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  25. Mr. Sean

    Mr. Sean Rookie

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    I dont know about this. Some say that this would be bad for Fed because his game relies heavily on control. He paints the lines and relies heavily on precision on each shot just a couple of centimeters off and he would lose a ton a points. A 95 would be good because he might shank less shots but he would definitely be missing some shots wide or long. Also a racket wont help his mental game which he clearly had problems with at RG. I would love to see him play with a 95 though. See how much more power his shots would have.
     
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  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I guess YOU were slightly off too much then. Keep your eye on the ball.
     
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  27. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    If world #1 like roger mishits the ball so often with K90, what chance do we have ? Maybe K90 should just be discontinued, it is just too small and useless..:sad:
     
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  28. khd287

    khd287 New User

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    Again, its not the racquet...
     
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  29. lilxjohnyy

    lilxjohnyy Hall of Fame

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    its def not racket... its foot movement
     
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  30. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Us playing with the K90 against Nadal at Roland Garros? No chance! :-(

    Us playing with the K90 against a typical 4.5 player on hardcourts? We'd crush them! :D
     
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  31. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    we don't play against nadal. Attila plays in a below 3.0 league.
     
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  32. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    If seriously, Nadal is just being wicked with his groundies. He's got more on them now than last year. I noticed it earlier in the tournament -like Djokovic would come in behind a good approadh, and the pass from Nadal just looked so widcked even coming straight at Djokovic ('s feet). Nadal should get some credit for winning the FO I think...
     
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  33. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I would now agree with you that a 95 won't make any difference to Federer against Nadal, unlike what I used to believe before. Nadal is far superior to Federer and Federer's backhand will not stand up to the attack, no matter what. The scores might be closer, but he would lose anyway.
     
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  34. grizzly4life

    grizzly4life Professional

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    no, mishits would have nothing to do with the sweet spot..... LOL
     
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  35. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Not really sure what you mean, but, it's funny, my wife keeps saying that.
     
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  36. grizzly4life

    grizzly4life Professional

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    i'm agreeing with you..... seems federer has huge problem with the sweet spot vs. nadal.... and i'm not sure it's just high bouncing balls. i think some of it is that he gets very tense and then a tiny racquet/small sweet spot is no good.

    what disappoints me about roger is this.... tiger woods would do anything i.e. completely restructure his game, to win the FO if he was a golfer. roger seems happy doing this "i'm better than you" game. tiger adapts such that tons of guys are outdriving him (correct expression?? as he's often hitting 2 or 3 iron off tee) but he keeps it in the fairway. he doesn't pull the "i'm bigger and better than you". roger's attitude is more of a "phil mickelson" (even "greg norman" thing), although obviously he's had way more success than them (of course tennis is more prone to dominant winners than golf)
     
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  37. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Maybe Fed should take some advice from Pete Sampras.

    "I regret that I never tried out a racquet with a bigger head at Roland Garros," he added.

    "My racquet was almost like one of the old wooden ones - it was heavy and stiff. It took a lot of effort to make the ball move on clay.

    "But I was really used to it and I never dared (change). I was too stubborn. I was scared of losing control, that it would take me too long to master it." ...Pete Sampras
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4059691.stm
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2007
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  38. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Attilla the bum mentioned that the sweetspot on the k90 was tiny and was trying to say that fed cant find it.....LOL
     
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  39. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    I now have the price logo next to my name...happy now?

    Also why dont you ring Federer and tell him your amazing ideas involving bigger headsizes and how it will help him: maybe you could reccomend some frames like the Pure Drive or even an OS....
     
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  40. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    If I may......

    If I may interject here....

    The difference in the sweetspot on a 90 to a 100 Sq in racquet is miniscule. Even though you have a 10 sq in diffence in the racquet, it's not that much difference in the sweetspot. My question is how does the guy who watches the ball better anyone have so many mishits??? I know the bad bounces on clay can cause mis-timing but.....

    With regard to the 1hbh, there is no difference in power if both are struck correctly. A 1hbh can be hit just as hard as a 2hbh and has more versitility. Where the 2hbh is stronger is in disquise, as you can hold the shot a split second longer to hide direction. It wasn't Feds BH that let him down, it was the serve and FH.

    The issue with Nadal is the disquise and his speed on clay where he has time. He can stand further back and track the ball to give him the best shot selection. Fed has to move him out of that comfort zone and jerk him all over the court like Murray did at the AO. Fed is just too stubborn to do that and tries to beat Nadal at his own game.

    Fed had the right strategy because he got to 17 break points. He also had lots of opportunities where Nadal was off balance or out of the point, but Fed did NOT execute. I think that's why he was so upset. Had he completed half of his opportunities, it would have been straight sets for Fed.

    Just my opinion from observations, don't shoot me ;)

    TennezSport :cool:
     
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  41. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Its not only the sweet spot. A bigger frame means you have more string. Logically then you have less framed shots. You also have more power which is what fed needs against Nadal on clay.

    This is incorrect. I have already quoted many experts who acknowledge that the advantage of a two hander is power and returning high balls. Scroll back.

    Incorrect. Even Roger Federe himself acknowledged that the problem was high topspins to his backhand. Thats why he trained that exact stroke for two weeks with a French lefty junior with monster topspin.

    After a record of 1-6 on clay I thinks its about time we acknowledge that Roger Federer has been using the wrong strategy.

    Never would. Very good points! and quite polite. Thanks for the input.
     
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  42. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Yes!!! At least I finally have been able to convince you of something!

    As far as ringing Federer about a bigger headsize...why should I? Pete Sampras has already told him that. I think he should stop being so stubborn and listen to Pete.
     
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  43. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    You say he has very good points yet say they are all incorrect:confused:

    All the points he made were spot on but you dont seem to be very good at accepting the truth....
     
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  44. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    The difference between a 90' & 100' is huge, grant it if you're a good player hitting at least five times weekly a 90 might be ok. I find the 90 lacking in those out of position shots or high top to the bkhnd side. I think Fed would mishit less with even a 95, but having said that, the rest of his game might suffer. I'm sure it comes into his mind, especially on Clay, but he probably figures the +'s outweigh the -'s.
     
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  45. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Well..........

    This is a misconception with string as the angle of deflection can cause more errors in larger racquets. Where the larger racquet helps is in the swing path and strike zone as it's gives a larger margin for errors, but still must be hit near the sweet spot.

    Another misconception as it is not power that is greater, but control. At Vic Braden's academy we learned that any ball hit at shoulder height or above will lose power due to the loss in the kinetic chain, no matter how many hands are on the racquet. A 1hbh TS or slice shot can be hit very hard but the accuracy goes down.

    Yes, Federer does have trouble because he is trying to hit hard TS backhands, when he would have better results with mixing slice with TS shots on that side; again control and accuracy are diminished with 1hbh TS shots.

    Well, you don't get 17 break point opportunities against one of the best clay courters on his best surface with the WRONG strategy. Fed just did not execute.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
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  46. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    as above please
     
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  47. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Nadal owns fed on clay, i would think that may be obvious by now.Every year it is the same thing over+over again fed should have sliced more, he should come to the net more+ on + on.

    Do you guys really think you know more of what fed should do to win than fed+ the coaches he has had Know? Nadal is a great clay court player+ taking 3 sets off him is next to impossible.If fed who has been the best player for the last 3 years cant do it that should prove something.

    Everyone has a lot of unforced errors against nadal, his high jumping ball + unbelievable defence is the reason, not a big surprise here.Just get over it fed is not as good as nadal on clay period!!!!!!
     
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  48. Richard Pur

    Richard Pur Rookie

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    Didn't Sampras say that he wished he would have switched to a larger headed racquet for the French Open and that it may have given him a better chance at winning the FO? Someone help me out here. Anyone ever hear that?

    More forgiveness in the racquet could make a difference, with the less than perfect bounces on clay.
     
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  49. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    I would agree with this. fed is obviously one of the best of all time, but he just isnt as good as nadal on the dirt, and now i think isnt better than Nadal on any higher bounding surface

    Why people would assume that when Fed loses to Nadal it is because he didnt play well or didnt execute his game plan escapes me. I'm a big Fed fan, but the reality is that Nadal makes it not possible for Fed to execute his game plan on higher bounding surfaces..he controls the points and dictates play..Nadal is simply the better player then. i dont know why that is hard to understand. If Fed could have come in more, ended the points sooner, etc etc.he would have..he's Fed!
     
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  50. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Actually I am not. The difference is approx 3.5 sq in in the sweet spot depending on racquet. Not very big at all. I can also tell you from experience in playing on the red crushed brick, once the ball is in play and you start running and sliding around, you will definately get bad bounces as the court get roughed up, don't care how pristine they started out. This is also why they drag them at the beginning of each set.

    Misconception, you can swing a 1hbh faster than a 2hbh even at head height, so power is the same due to the kinetic chain. However, control and accuracy are diminshed with the 1hbh. The 2hbh has more control due to the second hand adding stability. Nadal attacks Feds backhand because he knows Feds chances of hitting winners from that side are a lot lower, giving Nadal time to get into the point. Fed had a lot less BH errors than FH and S&V errors.

    With regard to the break points, as I said before you do not get 17 break point chances against the best clay courter on his surface with the wrong strategy; Fed did not execute. Nadal had a lot fewer chances to break, but he DID execute when needed. When Rafa was trying to press in the first set he was making all kinds of errors himself. Then he reverted to his human backboard discipline and allowed Fed to self distruct (at least that is how I saw it). I did not see anyone controlling the match, it was just who could make the least amount of errors. Anytime you have both players with more UEs than winners, it's a poorly played match in my book.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
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