Fed has the world record for mishits

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by Attila the tennis Bum, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Very good post nbmj, i thought that fed was trying to mix it up more, he came in, he attacked nadals weak second serve.And he has some success at it, but it is hard to do that at a high % for 4 hours.

    A lot of people here see fed come in + get some points+ they say why doesnt he keep doing that? They dont notice the times when nadal is passing him on those shots.Fed has been there before+ he knows rafa can get real hot on hitting small windows for passing shots.

    I thought fed did a pretty good job of mixing it up, but he knows he can only give away so many points + stay in the match with nadal who makes so few errors.

    To be honest i thought nadal would have won easier with fed serving that bad, the way nadal looked against the joker man.I thought if nadal played like he did in the semis he would have beaten fed in straight sets, but it shows to feds credit he still made it tough on nadal.
     
    #51
  2. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    you're just repeating yourself and i still disagree..i have lots of experiences on different surfaces too..you're not the only experienced poster in this forum. even balls hit off the lines at the FO dont bounce as bad as most other clay surfaces because the lines are painted on rather than nailed down nylon or whatever. also, if you gave Nadal Feds 90 sized frame, people might be very surprised what the results may be as his misshits would likely be off the hook...your point about the headsizes is way of base..

    thanks..i posted before the match in the forum that i thought Fed would be lucky to get a set. It really is hard/if not impossible to play high risk tennis against Nadal (or any pro baseliner) who is a wall who runs everything down and who can effortlessly hit passing shots with a 3 feet long swing..that's why hardly anyone plays that way anymore. so even if you do find a way to get to the net against someone who hits balls with so much topsoin as to keep you back in the court, you are likely to get easily passed..there's just no percentage in trying it......but.....if Fed was going to lose anyway, I think he might as well have thrown Nadal the kitchen sink, the bathtub, the dishwasher, and the shower ;)
     
    #52
  3. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    OK, someone's got to explain this one to me. How is it that the lines at the French are painted on? Are they painted on the base?
     
    #53
  4. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    We agree on that

    You are completely entitled to your opinion and I never said that I was the only one with experience on this board or any other board. I am sorry if you interpreted it that way.

    All I was saying is that I have played on the courts at RG as well as other crushed brick courts and regardless of the lines crushed brick will give you loads of bad bounces as the court gets roughed up. Additionally, if you gave Nadal a K90 I do not think he would make as many misshits as he stands back further allowing the ball to drop, giving him time to properly adjust from the bad bounces and line up his shots. Fed tries to take the ball on the rise standing closer to the baseline = less time to adjust and more misshits.

    With regard to the racquet headsize I suggest you look up the study done by Vic Braden and Dr. Gabriel Ariel with respect to string deflection and ball control with respect to racquet size.

    We are all entitled to our opinions and I am just stating mine as I understand the mechanics and kinetic energy tranfers in stroke production. I do not know everything (far from it), and if I learn something here then I am the better for it. Don't take my word, do the research for yourself as there is a massive amount of info on the physics of stroke production. Just expressing myself, no worries mate.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    #54
  5. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Vic Braden is a psychiatrist. If you want to look up THE authority on the subject go take a look at Brodys the physics of tennis. You will find that you are completely wrong.

    or take a look at www.racquetresearch.com...if interedted here are the rankings of sweetspots from 2002:


    Sweet Spot Rankings - 2002

    The center of percussion (COP), also known as the "sweet spot," is a point. It's not an area. This point is located along the racquet's centerline, and the higher this point, i.e. the closer to the tip, the better for reducing the resultant force from impact. See the formula for locating the sweet spot. A high sweet spot is good; a low sweet spot is bad.

    The sweet spot varies according to where the racquet is held, and choking down, as for the serve under the Second and Fifth Benchmark Condition (2, 5 BC), will lower the sweet spot. A good (low) rank number means a high sweet spot. The rankings in the left column are for a forehand (1 BC), volley (3 BC), or return (4 BC) where the hand is at the 7 cm axis. For some of the long racquets (e.g. the Prince TT Hornet), you may get better accuracy if you don't choke down on the serve.


    Rank
    Sweetspot 2002
    Tip to Sweet Spot (cm)
    1,3,4 BC

    1
    Prince
    Graphite Classic OS
    15.5

    2
    Prince
    Triple Threat Warrior MP
    15.9

    3
    Prince
    Triple Threat Hornet MP
    16.0

    4
    Prince
    Triple Threat Bandit MP
    16.1

    5
    Head
    I.Prestige Mid
    16.3

    5
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 6.3 MP
    16.3

    7
    Babolat
    VS Drive
    16.4

    7
    Prince
    Triple Threat Rebel MP
    16.4

    9
    Prince
    Triple Threat Vendetta MP
    16.5

    9
    Weed
    T-Zone
    16.5

    11
    Babolat
    VS Control
    16.6

    11
    Blackburne
    DS-107
    16.6

    13
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 5.3 Stretch OS
    16.7

    14
    Prince
    Triple Threat Graphite OS
    16.8

    14
    Blackburne
    Excalibur Ti 97
    16.8

    14
    Prince
    Triple Threat Graphite MP
    16.8

    14
    Head
    Classic MP
    16.8

    18
    Prince
    Triple Threat Attitude MP
    16.9

    18
    Babolat
    Pure Control
    16.9

    18
    Cayman
    Excel Comp II
    16.9

    21
    Blackburne
    Excalibur Ti 107
    17.0

    21
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 5.3 Stretch MP
    17.0

    21
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 6.3 Light MP
    17.0

    21
    Babolat
    VS Power
    17.0

    25
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 6.3 OS
    17.1

    25
    Head
    i.S2 MP
    17.1

    25
    Prince
    Triple Threat Scream OS
    17.1

    28
    Yonex
    Muscle Power 3i
    17.2

    28
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 6.3 Light OS
    17.2

    28
    Cayman
    Strike X
    17.2

    31
    Prince
    Triple Threat Bandit OS
    17.3

    31
    Yonex
    RD Ti-70 88
    17.3

    31
    Volkl
    V1 Classic
    17.3

    31
    Pro Kennex
    Ti Intensity PBT Reach
    17.3

    35
    Prince
    Triple Threat Vendetta OS
    17.4

    35
    Prince
    Triple Threat Attitude OS
    17.4

    37
    Dunlop
    300G 98
    17.5

    37
    Gosen
    Carbon Plus I
    17.5

    37
    Prince
    Triple Threat Warrior OS
    17.5

    37
    Wilson
    Hyper Pro Staff 6.5 MP
    17.5

    41
    Volkl
    Quantum Force
    17.6

    41
    Babolat
    Soft Drive
    17.6

    41
    Babolat
    Soft Power
    17.6

    41
    Prince
    More Game OS
    17.6

    41
    Babolat
    Pure Power Zylon 360
    17.6

    41
    Wilson
    Hyper Pro Staff Extreme 6.7
    17.6

    47
    Wilson
    Hyper Pro Staff Zone 7.1
    17.7

    47
    Gosen
    Carbon 15
    17.7

    47
    Prince
    Triple Threat Sovereign OS
    17.7

    47
    Pro Kennex
    Kinetic Pro 5g
    17.7

    51
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 2.7
    17.8

    51
    Weed
    3/4 Weed XL
    17.8

    51
    Slazenger
    Pro Braided
    17.8

    51
    Volkl
    Quantum V1 MP
    17.8

    51
    Cayman
    Pro Smash II
    17.8

    51
    Pro Kennex
    Core 1 No. 20
    17.8

    51
    Prince
    Triple Threat Graphite Mid
    17.8

    51
    Yonex
    Ultimum RQ Ti-2000 Long 120
    17.8

    51
    Pro Kennex
    Core 1 No. 24
    17.8

    60
    Volkl
    Quantum V1 OS
    17.9

    60
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 4.0 OS
    17.9

    60
    Prince
    More Game MP
    17.9

    60
    Cayman
    Catalyst II
    17.9

    60
    Babolat
    Pure Drive
    17.9

    65
    Volkl
    Quantum 10 RAP
    18.0

    65
    Pro Kennex
    Kinetic Pro 15g
    18.0

    65
    Babolat
    VS Nanotube Drive
    18.0

    65
    Head
    i.Speed MP
    18.0

    69
    Head
    i.S2 OS
    18.1

    69
    Wilson
    Hyper Pro Staff Surge 5.1
    18.1

    69
    Pro Kennex
    Core 1 No. 22
    18.1

    69
    Head
    i.S4 MP
    18.1

    69
    Babolat
    Pure Drive Zylon 360
    18.1

    69
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 6.2 MP
    18.1

    75
    Prince
    More Thunder OS
    18.2

    75
    Yonex
    Ultimum RQ Ti-2000 Long 110
    18.2

    75
    Yonex
    MP Tour-1 Mid
    18.2

    78
    Head
    I.S6 OS
    18.3

    78
    Volkl
    C10 Pro
    18.3

    78
    Head
    I.S10
    18.3

    78
    Dunlop
    Vision 110
    18.3

    78
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 5.2 MP
    18.3

    78
    Head
    i.S9 OS
    18.3

    78
    Volkl
    Catapult 1
    18.3

    85
    Pro Kennex
    Type S
    18.4

    85
    Cayman
    Airlite
    18.4

    85
    Babolat
    VS Nanotube Power
    18.4

    85
    Wilson
    Hyper Pro Staff 6.1 MP
    18.4

    85
    Cayman
    Pro Heat II
    18.4

    85
    Dunlop
    Vision 102
    18.4

    91
    Pro Kennex
    Kinetic Pro 7g
    18.5

    91
    Prince
    Triple Threat Scream MP
    18.5

    91
    Prince
    More Dominant OS
    18.5

    91
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 5.2 OS
    18.5

    95
    Yonex
    MP Tour-1 MP
    18.6

    95
    Dunlop
    Spirit 100
    18.6

    95
    Head
    I.S18
    18.6

    95
    Cayman
    Energizer II
    18.6

    95
    Wilson
    Hyper Pro Staff 6.1 MP Stretch
    18.6

    95
    Topspin
    CL 628
    18.6

    101
    Yonex
    RD Ti-70 Long 98
    18.7

    101
    Volkl
    Quantum 10 Tour
    18.7

    101
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 6.2 OS
    18.7

    101
    Prince
    Triple Threat Hornet OS
    18.7

    101
    Volkl
    Quantum 8 RAP
    18.7

    106
    Babolat
    Pure Control +
    18.8

    106
    Yonex
    Muscle Power 5i OS
    18.8

    106
    Head
    I.S12
    18.8

    106
    Head
    i.Prestige MP
    18.8

    106
    Head
    Classic Mid
    18.8

    111
    Volkl
    Tour 10 Mid
    18.9

    111
    Wilson
    Hyper Hammer 4.0 MP
    18.9

    111
    Yonex
    Ultimum RQ Ti-1500 Long 105
    18.9

    111
    Yonex
    Muscle Power 5i MP
    18.9

    111
    Dunlop
    Inferno 118
    18.9

    111
    Gosen
    Tri Tube 400C
    18.9

    111
    Babolat
    Pure Control Zylon 360
    18.9

    111
    Volkl
    Catapult 3
    18.9

    119
    Head
    I.Prestige MP XL
    19.0

    119
    Dunlop
    Inferno 104
    19.0

    119
    Yonex
    Ultimum RQ Ti-1700 Long 110
    19.0

    119
    Topspin
    CL 633
    19.0

    123
    Fischer
    Pro No. One
    19.1

    123
    Yonex
    Ultimum RD Ti-50
    19.1

    123
    Wilson
    Pro Staff Original 6.0 85
    19.1

    123
    Yonex
    Ultimum RD Ti-80
    19.1

    123
    Volkl
    Catapult 2
    19.1

    123
    Fischer
    GDS Spice
    19.1

    123
    Head
    i.extreme MP
    19.1

    130
    Yonex
    V-Con 20
    19.2

    130
    Cayman
    Energizer Ti
    19.2

    130
    Cayman
    Pro Talis II Long
    19.2

    130
    Cayman
    Pro Talis II
    19.2

    130
    Cayman
    Energizer II Pro
    19.2

    130
    Yonex
    Ultimum RQ Ti-1700 Long 98
    19.2

    136
    Head
    I.S6 MP
    19.3

    136
    Weed
    T-Zone Plus
    19.3

    136
    Fischer
    GDS Rally FT Titanium
    19.3

    136
    Volkl
    Quantum 5
    19.3

    136
    Fischer
    GDS Spirit
    19.3

    136
    Cayman
    Sidewinder Ti
    19.3

    136
    Yonex
    V-Con 20
    19.3

    136
    Prince
    Precision Graphite Classic MP
    19.3

    136
    Cayman
    Catalyst II Pro
    19.3

    145
    Topspin
    CL 603
    19.4

    145
    Dunlop
    Inferno 110
    19.4

    145
    Topspin
    TPC1000
    19.4

    148
    Dunlop
    200G 95
    19.5

    149
    Fischer
    GDS Take Off 710
    19.6

    149
    Fischer
    GDS Take Off 1210
    19.6

    149
    Dunlop
    Spirit 110
    19.6

    149
    Fischer
    GDS Take Off 910
    19.6

    153
    Head
    I.Radical OS
    19.7

    153
    Wilson
    Triad Pro Staff 6.0 MP
    19.7

    155
    Head
    i.S4 OS
    19.8

    156
    Volkl
    Tour 8
    19.9

    157
    Wilson
    Triad Hammer 5.0 OS
    20.0

    158
    Wilson
    Triad Hammer 4.0 OS
    20.1

    158
    Wilson
    Triad Hammer 4.0 MP
    20.1

    160
    Yonex
    Ultimum RD Ti-50 Long
    20.2

    160
    Wilson
    Triad Hammer 5.0 MP
    20.2

    162
    Volkl
    C-10 Pro OS
    20.4

    162
    Fischer
    Pro Tour FT Air Carbon Ti
    20.4

    164
    Head
    I.Radical MP
    20.5

    165
    Fischer
    Pro Extreme
    20.8

    166
    Wilson
    Triad Hammer 3.0
    21.0

    167
    Wilson
    Triad Hammer 2.0 w/Rollers
    21.8

    Average
    18.31

    Standard Deviation
    1.10

    Worst
    21.76

    Best
    15.51

    Median
    18.35
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2007
    #55
  6. Sakumo

    Sakumo Semi-Pro

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    At least he doesn't have the world record for most ass picks in one match. ;)
     
    #56
  7. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Vic Braden also says you should throw up your ball toss on the serve exactly and only as far as you reach with the serve and i'm sure he has physics reasons for saying this too..unfortunately that just isnt very good advice and isnt very practical..i think Vic Braden is not the authority and bible of tennis...some of his stuff is good and I bet he's a very nice guy, but much of his stuff only works in theory or in the lab....i'll take real on court experiences by qualified people over lab experiments most anyday

    I play and teach on the HarTru with nailed down lines and on days when the courts are properly maintained, i really cant say there are many bad bounces at all until into the 3rd set, other than off the lines of course, and as i said, the lines at the FO are painted. i think the French pride themselves on the terre batu, and for the French Open the courts are pristine, and as i said it wasnt a windy day for the finals.

    you yourself said you cant understand why Fed misshits so much, given he is the best in the world...i suggest to you that he would misshit less with a racquet with a larger sweetzone, but you arent buying that simple logic either, so we have stuckage and disagree..no problemo
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2007
    #57
  8. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, if Sampras had actually switched to a bigger racquet just for the French Open he probably would have done even worse.

    That's like Connors saying - "I regret not being able to play the French Open in 1974". But that doesn't mean he would have won it if he did.
     
    #58
  9. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Once again we agree

    Actually it's execellent advise but diffucult to attain for people. If you look at the physics in the ball toss, the ball hangs for a second motionless at the apex of the toss. This gives you the best opportunity to make a clean strike at the ball (fewer things in motion = higher percentage of clean contact). It's also allows for the best spin and control since the ball is on the string for only 4 tenths of a second on average.

    Agreed, as the FO is immaculately maintained. However, HarTru is much heavier than crushed brick and plays completely different. Terre Baute is much more slippery, with a higher and slower bounce. Because it's a much thinner powdery surface, the ball makes a divot when it lands (check out some slowmo videos on crushed brick) as does all of the footwork. This can make for some wild bounces. This is why they drag the court after each set. This is also why clay court specialists stand so far back of the baseline (more time = better adjustments). Not Feds style.

    Slightly miss-quoted. What I said was "My question is how does the guy who watches the ball better anyone have so many mishits???"

    Differences of opinion are good, keeps us thinking and improving.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2007
    #59
  10. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Yes but.....

    I have read it and it's a good source but those tests were done with static measurements (they do not mention string tension, which has a big impact in those numbers) as a function of the racquet and do not look at PASS (Path, Angle, Swing and Strike Zone). Whereas, Dr. Ariels and Vics tests were done with real human subjects and mechanical tests, including racquet size, string tensions and swing types. Once you add the Hu element all of those numbers change immensly.

    All I am saying is at the pro level the difference in sweetspot size is not as big a factor as control. Because of the larger stringbed in bigger racquets the angle of deflection rises and control goes down. Increasing string tension in the larger racquet shrinks the sweetspot (catch 22). So players like Fed and Sampras (in his younger years) really want the control as they can provide ample power.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    #60
  11. skraggle

    skraggle Professional

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    Disagree. Nadal saved himself on far more break points than you give him credit for by serving harder and deeper into the box. And there's no way Fed takes him at RG in straights.

     
    #61
  12. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    i'm really not interested in doing this back and forth. you just keep saying the same things..so i would like to move on please. you may have the last word if you wish
     
    #62
  13. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    As usual, your posts are filled with "opinion" rather than fact.

    Fed had more misses (unforced errors, forced errors, whatever) on his forehand than on his backhand>> 52 -46. And this, with WAY more shots directed to his BH. So, he had a way higher percentage of missed FH's than BH's.

    Here ar the facts:

    351 backhands and missed 52 (14.8%).
    229 forehands and missed 46 (20.1%).

    His first two sets were clearly his best tennis, with a ton of breakpoint opportunities lost in the first, and winning the second.

    In the first set he hit 113 backhands to 70 forehands.
    In the second set he hit 106 backhands to 60 forehands.

    In the first two sets he clearly played his best tennis, and received most of his break chances >>> They were provided by way of his backhand, and were lost by way of his forehand. He had 17 break opportunities, and broke once. This leaves 16. Of those 16, 3 were erased by way of an ace, and 2 clean backhand winners by Nadal. Of those 13, 7 were erased by missed forehands, and 6 by missed backhands. Additionally, his only "break of serve" came by way of a backhand.

    In the third set he hit more forehands than backhands >>>54 to 52.

    Furthermore, Nadal only hit 11 clean winners from short replies that came by way of backhand, vs 9 off the forehand. So again, the facts go against your argument. 3.13% (bh) vs. 3.93 (fh). So, in actuality >> Nadal hit more winners off of short replies from Fed's forehand.


    We could clearly conclude that his forehand was the shot that let him down>>> not his backhand.

    Of course, this is not subjective dribble or rhetoric.
     
    #63
  14. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Well, only a few weeks ago in Hamburg, Nadal did not "own" Federer. At RG it was different, maybe due to the players form on the the day, psychological factors, the conditions they played in, and a lot of other things. I just wish that people would not generalize so much and be so agressive in their rethorics here. Maybe just cut down a bit on caffeine (sorry..).
     
    #64
  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    People forget that Fed is the only one to take a set off Nadal at the FO!
     
    #65
  16. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    :lol: Drakulie knows how to end an arguement.
     
    #66
  17. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

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    Bless You

    You said what I was trying to say all along (and did a much better job). AND, It wasn't the racquet, it was Feds Serve and FH errors that lost him that match and he knows it.

    Thanks sir

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    #67
  18. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    Right behind you, but i'll be gone before you fini
    I was thinking about this the other day:

    If they kept a stat for most mishits or shanks, fed probably WOULD be near the top of that list.


    Want to know why? He knocks everyone else out of the tournaments he enters! Nobody is alive in the same tournaments as fed long enough to hit as many shanks!
     
    #68
  19. JMS

    JMS Professional

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    yes he should, how can it hurt him, but he is too full of himself
     
    #69
  20. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    kind of like ace leaders - karlovic is ace leader until the second round - then he loses.
     
    #70
  21. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    or stubborn.
     
    #71
  22. Roger_Federer.

    Roger_Federer. Semi-Pro

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    Most posters here are both, full of themselves, and the latter, stubborn.
     
    #72
  23. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Huh? He's won 10 of the last 15 Grand Slams with a 90 and you're aksing how switching to a 95 could hurt him? :confused: How about losing the next 10 of 15 Grand Slams?

    If a bigger racquet is always better, why isn't everyone using 200 sq. in. racquets?
     
    #73
  24. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    ahhh...yes....but as Bob Dyaln said :

    "the times they are a changing"

    The question is how will federer respond to the changes?
     
    #74
  25. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    As far as I recall, everyone that he beat in his 10 Grand Slam finals that he won used a racquet bigger than his already. Are his opponent's racquets getting even bigger? I don't think so.

    (OK, I guess you can argue that Safin's and Philippoussis' racquets are actually paintjobs of a PC600 Mid and that it's actually a 90, not a 93 as listed.)
     
    #75
  26. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    True, I forgot about the '04 US Open final. I kept thinking that Federer keeps beating Hewitt in the semis of Grand Slams but not in a final. My mistake.
     
    #76
  27. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Those matches with Hewitt seem more like quarterfinals the way Federer plays.
     
    #77
  28. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    still stuck in the past huh? Like I said the times they are changing. Every great champion arrives at the point where Federer is now.

    Borg was beating everyone until Mcenroe came along.

    Mcenroe was beating everyone until Lendl came around.

    Lendl was beating everyone until guys like Edberg ,Becker , Wilander came on the scene

    i think if Sampras had stayed around he would have had to deal with Federer.

    So now its Rogers turn.....nadal has come on the scene....the question is what is he going to do?
     
    #78
  29. kuyoungj

    kuyoungj New User

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    i just read the whole post... wow it took me 30 minutes but pretty interesting
    but i guess you guys are saying he should change it but why not? i mean its not like you can confirm that he hasnt tried a 95 before. He obviously has "private" practices. We only know he uses different racquets on the public. My guess is he tries various racquets when he practices alone (as in not practices available for public viewing) and its his decision and his decision only. If he did not like the 95 so be it.
     
    #79
  30. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    What's he going to do? Reduce his unforced errors, raise his serving percentage, and play a better match. That's what he's going to do.

    None of these other pros you named switched to a bigger racquet just to beat their rival.
     
    #80
  31. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Bigger= more power. Fed needs generate more pace off his backhand to defeat Nadal...as Mcenroe pointed put.

    I don't know about the Pros and switching racquets...but your idol John Mcenroe surely did.
    I am not even talking about him switching to the Dunlop because that was from wood to graphite. Rather I am talking about a few years ago.

    Mcenroe actually plays quite often at my club in NYC....the tennisport. I have talked to him on the court and the locker rooms. He is actually pretty approachable.

    Anyway take a wild guess what he pulled out of his bag to play with.....it was a VOLKL.

    He was playing a very good pro at the club (whom he actually lost to...dudes on the tour). During a break in the match I asked him about it and he said "yeah I am playing with this now".

    Funny moment on the court though....you know how he always yells and curses......well on this particular day his daughter was on the court. he missed a ball and he yells....."AWWWWW FIDDLESTICKS". It was really funny...he just looked at his daughter smiling with so much love. It was nice to see.

    But I digress.....I think Serena just switched to a new model Wilson to win the Australian and thanked Wislon for their new technology. Also during Venus' loss at the FO she switched to a different model Wilson right in the middle of the match. . Navratilova doesnt need the money so she threw Yonex aside and plays with a Bosworth. By the way hewitt used Bosworth to change his racquet big time and so do most pros.

    I am not up on the history of pros switching racquets to improve their games.....but I suspect that due to endorsements if they ever did switch racquets then you would probably never even know about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2007
    #81
  32. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Wimbledon draw is out and fed is facing a dangerous unknown player in the first round.
     
    #82
  33. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, and when was the last time that McEnroe played against his rival Lendl on the ATP Tour, and what racquet was he using? Did he switch racquets just to beat Lendl?

    BTW, as a side note, McEnroe switched from his wood racquet to graphite mostly to alleviate his tennis elbow. The Max 200G is a very flexy and comfortable racquet that absorbs almost all the shock and vibration from impact. It's only 82 sq. in. anyway, and it was around the time when many pros were also switching to graphite from wood. He did NOT make the switch just to beat a certain rival.
     
    #83
  34. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Yeah, McEnroe was the top player during the wood to graphite transition. Of course he switched racquets.
     
    #84
  35. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    You have no idea what you are talking about. First of all wood is far more forgiving than any graphite racquet. Nothing beats a wood racquet for tennis elbow.

    Secondly Mcenroe would have gotten smoked if he did not switch to graphite. It revolutionized the sport. Graphite is sooo much stiffer and more powerful than wood.

    Third...Pete sampras has said that he wished he was not so stubborn and switched to a larger racquet while he was on the tour.
     
    #85
  36. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Read McEnroe's own book if you dont' believe me.

    BTW, how long have you played with a wood racquet to know this? And how long have you played with a Max 200G to know this? Me? I used McEnroe's Dunlop Maxply Fort woodie for 10 years and then his Max 200G for 13 years, and you're telling ME that I don't know what I'm talking about? :roll:
    But specifcally beating Lendl was NOT the reason why he switched. He had already beaten Lendl multiple times with his wood racquet while Lendl was using his graphite Adidas racquet.
    Oh, because he was getting his ass kicked at Wimbledon? :roll:

    He won 14 Grand Slams. Name another male player that won more Grand Slam singles titles with a larger racquet. :roll:
     
    #86
  37. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Ok so let me get this straight....are you suggesting that Mcenroe would have continued to play with a wood racquet while every other pro switched to graphite?

    You do realize that mcenroe is the biggest proponent for the proposition that the game should go back to wood because graphite created the power game and changed everything. In fact part of Mcenroes downfall was graphite!

    Now as far as which is more forgiving wood or graphite.......is that even a debate? Are you kidding? Do I really need to discuss that as well? Come on man...do you know anything at all?

    Finally, I don't care why Pete sampras said he wanted to switch to a bigger racquet. Thats not the point.....the point is that he said he wished he played with a bigger racquet but that he was too stubborn to change his ways.
     
    #87
  38. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Of course, McEnroe would have eventually switched to graphite since they eventually stopped making wood racquets, but at the time that he switched, he was looking for a racquet that alleviated his tennis elbow.

    BTW, some pros, like Mecir, continued to use wood racquets well into the late-80's and even the early 90's.

    How can you say that McEnroe's downfall was graphite when he had the greatest year of any pro in history in 1984 using a graphite racquet? Even fewer losses than each of Federer's past 3 years.

    Have you played with either the Maxply McEnroe woodie and the Max 200G for an extended period of time? No? Then what the heck do you know? And aren't you the one that keeps saying that Federer and Sampras should switch to bigger racquets because they're more forgiving? Well, guess what? Graphite racquets ARE BIGGER than wood racquets. Maxply McEnroe = 65 sq. in., Max 200G = 82 sq. in.

    You have no clue and the more you post, the more pathetic you become.
     
    #88
  39. saram

    saram Legend

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    another thread that starts with one topic and ends in personal attacks about something completely off the original topic. Somewhat pathetic, actually...
     
    #89
  40. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    OMG...I cannot believe that I am even having this discussion. I mean this is basic stuff. Its so basic I don't even know where to start....but i will try.

    Lets discuss the first issue of tennis elbow and wood.

    Wood is the softest material a racquet can be made of. There is nothing more forgiving than wood. Graphite racquets are very stiff and powerful. Wood is so soft that it warps and people actually had to put these little brace devices on the head of the frame to stop them from warping.

    In fact remember the Pro Kennex core technology? Well pro kennex put wood in the core of the racquet for a softer more arm friendly feel.

    Come on man.....this is really lame. Stop this ....you are really embarassing yourself now. Do you really still think that graphite is more forgiving than wood??? Come on....you are the G.O.A.T poster......you have got to be kidding me.

    Mcenroe switching to graphite because they stopped making wood (utter nonsense)

    Again...this is really basic. Graphite revolutionized tennis. It was a far superior material than wood. You could enlarge the size of the racquet and change the shape while still being light weight. It was also far stiffer and far more powerful. The serves all became bigger, the return of serves became bigger, the strokes bigger ......everything changed.

    To suggest that Mcenroe changed to wood because they stopped making wood is simply idiotic. Mcenroe had to change to graphite or he would have been destroyed.

    Mcenroes downfall was graphite

    Now this is a real discussion. This is simply my opinion. It is true that Mcenroes greatest year was with a graphite racquet; however it was only the beginning of graphite and the modern power game.

    lendls racquet was at first the same size and dimension as any wood racquet....but then with the advent of prince everything changed. The heads started to increase as did the technology and the strokes. Power tennis was now ushered in.

    After Mcenroes greatest year he was basically blown off the courts. Unlike Borg who left the game on his own accord....Mcenroe had the door slammed in his face. He never won a grand slam again and was lucky to even be in the top 10. You think that was a coincidence???

    Why is then that mcenroe is the biggest proponet for changing the game back to wood? The answer is because thats really the only way he could still keep winning. The graphite power game signaled the end of an era.

    Mcenroe did not want to change to graphite...he had to change or he would have been blown off the courts.

    Wood tennis is all about feel and touch....graphite is power. This is so basic....come on!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
    #90
  41. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Wow, you used to be a one-trick pony. Now you have two tricks.

    Dude, have you ever actually played a good level of tennis, or do you just regurgitate what you've gotten from the commentators, the books and the friends?
     
    #91
  42. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    This is some sort of a joke right? You do not even raise an eyebrow at the craziness BP has said but you get on my case?:confused:

    This guy breakpoint is supposedly the GOAT poster and he has said things like slice works better on clay than on hardcourts.

    He says that Mcenroe have only eventually switched to a graphite racquet because they stopped making wood.

    He says that wood is less forgiving than graphite.

    I am pretty new to these boards but if this guy is the GOAT then I must say that this tennis board is sorely lacking in knowledge. WOW!

    I am injured right now and bored to tears.....I cant wait till I am healthy because this is even more boring than watching paint dry. Is there anyone on these boards who knows anything?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2007
    #92
  43. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Stop LYING!!!

    I said McEnroe switched to the Max 200G because of tennis elbow. If you knew how to read, maybe you could actually read his book in which he clearly explains what led him to switch from his wood racquet to the Max 200G.

    Where did I say wood was less forgiving than graphite? :confused: I said switching to the Max 200G alleviated McEnroe's tennis elbow. What does that have to do with "forgiving"? And aren't graphite racquets bigger than wood racquet? Doesn't that make them more "forgiving" in your book? If not, then why do you keep harping that Federer and Sampras should switch to larger, more "forgiving" racquets? :confused:

    BTW, you've never even used a wood racquet nor the Max 200G so what the heck do you know?

    Mods, please ban Attila ASAP!
     
    #93
  44. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    breakpoint,

    I now finally realize what an utter waste of time this was.

    If you are the GOAT of this board then thats a really sad statement about the wealth of knowledge here.

    I am injured and at home now so I thought I would pass the time discussing tennis with knowledgeable people.

    But after sizing you up I find you sorely lacking. I think I would rather watch paint dry then discuss anything even remotely related to tennis with you.

    Don't worry...until i find someone worthy enough to have a discussion with, you wont be hearing from me again....and if your the GOAT of this board then I think i will be silent for a VERY long time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2007
    #94
  45. saram

    saram Legend

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    Not trying to bait you into an argument here, but I think you need to look at an analyze the facts prior to saying that the GOAT is not worthy enough for you to debate with.

    You are 21. I assume the GOAT watched Bjorg, Connors, Mac and many more live and in his prime while you only have witnessed these icons via taped coverage. I imagine he devoted hours upon hours watching these icons develop, their games and lives change--while you take in what you can get instantly via the internet and forums and spit it back out.

    Maybe people are not taking you serious because you keep telling or suggesting that the greatest player (arguably) should change to a two-handed backhand, change his racket, etc.

    If I had won 10 slams, numerous titles, and held the number one spot for so many years with so much distance between msyelf and number two and had someone tell me to change my game, my racket, etc....and they were my coach--I'd fire them.

    I'm not picking sides here, but I see an individual that has been around the tennis block and speaks knowledgably about the game and the past and a young man attacking him with thoughts and comments that just do not continually stand up.

    Again--not attacking you--just that sometimes we need to step back and analyze everything and ourselves as well prior to getting into debates. And as well-when in a debate--ensure our comments are solid and sound and cannot be scruitinized and torn apart so instnatly....
     
    #95
  46. stevekim8

    stevekim8 Semi-Pro

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    it's not federer nor his racquet
    it's nadal :D
    did you see how much SPIN he puts on the ball??
    mannn lol
     
    #96
  47. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I certainly hope you're a man (I mean boy) of your word because nobody here takes anything you say seriously anyway.
     
    #97
  48. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    well coming from people who think and actually argue that the slice is more effective on clay than on a hardcourt, I am actually honored.

    as mac said:

    You cannot be serious!"
     
    #98
  49. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    anyone who says that the slice is more effective on clay than on a hardcourt really does not know what he is talking about. Whats even more shocking he actually is still trying to defend that statement! sad.
     
    #99
  50. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Once again, ANOTHER LIE!! Show me where I said that "slice is more effective on clay than on hardcourts"? Please show me my quote. You can't because I NEVER said it! :roll:

    I cited Steffi Graf's 6 French Open titles to show that slice CAN indeed work on clay, just as it can work on other surfaces. Something that you continue to dispute as if, if you're going to slice on clay you might as well just forfeit the match up front and not bother playing as you're going to get killed anyway. Well, go tell that to Steffi Graf and Ken Rosewall as they somehow forgot they were supposed to forfeit their matches at the French Open. :roll:

    So STOP putting words in my mouth! I know you have trouble with reading comprehension but this is ridiculous!
     

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