Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by SuperHead, Sep 24, 2013.
I know this match is impossible and can never happen, but just out of interest, who would win?
As always, Nadal would win (except maybe on grass and indoors...), simply because of their playing style. But who would be the most dominant with regards to the rest of the players? Imo, Federer.
Nadal 2013 wins on HCs and clay but loses on grass.
Don't get me wrong, 2006-2007 Fed version was a monster, but any version of Fed still is vulnerable with the BH against Nadal. 2013 Nadal's serve is quite good too which you couldn't say about the 2006-2007 version of Rafa.
Also in 2013 Rafa is almost as good on defense as he did in his peak, and has many offensive shots too with very few UEs.
2006 Fed was quite different from 2007 Fed. In 2007, the cracks were already showing, in 2006, Fed was almost invincible.
2006 - Fed wins everywhere except clay against 2013 Nadal
2007 - Fed loses on outdoor hard, wins on grass/indoor, loses on clay.
IIRC, didn't the "invincible" 2006 Roger lost to the young Rafa on the fast courts of Dubai? 2013 Rafa is a lot better on the fast courts than his 2006 version.
500 event. I am talking about slams and masters. There is no way 2006 Fed loses to 2013 Nadal on fast HC, if Nadal needed 3 tight sets to beat Fed in Cinci this year.
It took him 3 sets to beat a inspired Roger who played like in his peak. He did well enough to win a set, but Nadal still stopped him and took the match. He did the same in 2006 too. The 2006 Roger may have been "invincible" but 2013 Rafa truly is unbeatable on the HCs and almost unbreakable. The versatile 2013 Nadal trumps the 2006 Roger Federer who had trouble with the clay court game of the young Rafa on faster courts.
On clay, needless to say Nadal.
On HC, it's Nadal again.
On grass, have to go with Fed here.
Australian Open - Nadal
Dubai - Apparently Nadal
Indian Wells - Nadal
Miami - Nadal
Rome - Nadal
Hamburg - Nadal
French Open - Nadal
Halle - Federer
Wimbledon - Federer
Toronto - Nadal
US Open - Federer
Madrid Indoors - Federer
Paris Indoors - Federer
Masters Cup - Federer
Federer played like garbage in that Cincinnati match. I really have no idea why people think he played well in that. Nadal basically lost the first set with errors.
I'd say Wimbledon is a 50-50. I know Rafa lost in R1, but I honestly think it's more attributable to the lack of match play than his grass game going completely AWOL.
Sounds about right, although I think USO is 50/50. Rafa's last 3 USO results are W, F, W. And 2013 lost very few service games and retured very well.
NOPE. 2013 Rafa loses on grass vs Fed of the 2006/07. No chance for Nadal.
USO? Rafa might be as good as Fed there, if not better.
Clay- Nadal (but could be challenging)
Outdoor- 50-50 could go either way but slight edge to Nadal. (But as far as HC slams go Federer)
Indoor- Federer(but could be challenging)
I would give IW to Fed. He beat Rafa there last year. this year he had back issues.
Well Said! However, I doubt Nadal would have been able to win on AO Rebound Ace and the relatively faster US Open surfaces in 2007.
Nadal has always been excellent vs. Fed on outdoor hard and clay, so I doubt there'd be any change in the scoreline if Nadal played against Federer on Outdoor hard. However, on grass and indoor hard I'd give Federer the edge.
Nadal wins on HC's, destroys on clay.
Federer destroys Nadal on grass though, since 2013 Nadal cant even get past the first round of Wimbledon.
Indoors probably Federer, but we dont know how good Nadal is this year indoors
Yup! Nadal wins the AO, FO and USO but loses Wimby and the WTF to Fed.
US Open was faster in 2006. If they play on the 2006 US Open court/with the 2006 US Open balls, odds are on 2006 Federer. If it's on the modern US Open court/modern balls, that might tilt it towards 2013 Nadal.
Rafa's always been excellent against Fed on outdoor HCs. Even in 2006, Federer at his best couldn't beat young Rafa on fast courts in Dubai.
federer on grass, HC ... nadal on clay ...
yeah, 2007 fed, some of the cracks were showing - in the smaller tournaments , but he was at his best in AO 07 and was excellent in the USO as well ....
I think prime Federer was clearly better than current Nadal on outdoor HC, but I really don't think he would be beating him regularly. It would be a nightmare for Roger to break this Nadal's serve, and Rafa has always read Roger's serve abnormally well. Nadal was still a tough matchup for him on HC at that point and he's improved HUGELY on the surface since then. I think Nadal would edge most of the HC matches due to matchup issue. Grass, I agree with you that Federer would pound him. Nadal has been hopeless on grass for 2 years now.
2013 Nadal sucks on grass so they wouldnt even play there. Nadal as always wins on clay, even 60 year old Nadal would dominate peak Federer on clay. On outdoor hard courts Nadal has always won most of their matches, even when Federer was in his prime. So Nadal of course, Federer has never been undefeated on outdoor hard courts this deep into the year anyway. Indoors Federer of course.
Overall Nadal as there are many more combined clay and outdoor hard events than grass or indoors.
I don't think federer found it a nightmare to break nadal's serve in AO 09 for instance. He broke him 6 times in that match. If federer had his serve working, he'd have probably won that, with nadal being at his best.
Nadal's serve and service game isn't better than what it was then.
Their outdoor h2h is skewed a lot by the circumstances of their meetings. peak to peak, I think federer would have the edge, though not by a big margin ( due to matchup ) .
I mean , do you really think nadal could've beaten him at cincy before this year - when federer was winning it 5 times ? really ? at IW this year, federer had back problems, miami 04 , he was sick and in doubt for the tournament .....
Clay - Rafa
Outdoor HC - Rafa
Grass - Fed
Indoor HC - Fed
Nadal's serve and service game is a lot better than it was in 2009 on hard courts. He has won 93% of his service games on hard this year, a ridiculous number. That's even better than the likes of Isner and Raonic, let alone Djokovic and Federer (Murray is way down on the list). Nadal is playing a lot more aggressively than in 2009 IMO, he is a lot more lethal on HC now than he was back then.
I agree that some of the matches are skewed but a Nadal who was overall AWFUL on HC compared to what he is now still pushed Federer extremely hard in Miami 2005, beat him as you mentioned in 2004 although he was sick, and beat him in Dubai 2006 on a very fast court. Nadal has improved a ton on hard courts since that time, I agree Federer would have an edge at Cincinnati but at AO, Montreal, IW, Miami, and USO against current Nadal? I think 2013 Nadal would win at least 60% of the matches against 2006/2007 Federer on those surfaces. The matchup is a very tough one for Federer even in his prime with a Nadal who was awful on HC compared to what he is today.
Yeah, but in a best of 5 I'm still betting on prime-Federer to get it done on a fast hardcourt.
The difference between Nadal now and Nadal then is he so much more DIFFICULT to break on the serve than he was then. He takes care of those service games much better than he used to so Fed would probably have an even bigger issue with Nadal there then he used to.
Nadal wins on all but grass. Though Id like to see Nadal get a few grass tourneys under his belt and see what happens then. The grass season is so short you don't get much preparation for it
I dont get how you guys think Nadal wins HC if Federer just beat him outdoors in 2012. Imagine a 2006 monster Fed. Australian open (rebound ace) would be going to fed. USO would def. be going to Fed and so would wimby. Nadal would win on clay and some other outdoor HC tourny like miami.
Nadal is undefeated on outdoor hard courts this year and his playing wayy better on the surface than he was a year ago. Wasn't that match they played last year windy as all hell as well?
Silly logic, Nadal beat Federer in 2004 and 2006 on HC and pushed him very hard in 2005. That IW match was also extremely windy, and Federer handled the conditions a lot better that day.
I don't think the fast courts bother Nadal much as long as he gets good bounce off it. Nadal in 2013 is undefeated on HCs and has done the Montreal-Cincy-USO triplete, something Fed couldn't do in 2006 or 2007 or ever.
I've heard many Fed fans say Cincy had the fastest courts on tour and Nadal would never win it. Rafa's done it in style this year.
Federer on faster courts even with the bad matchup...Nadal on slower courts.
They say Cincinnati is slow this year.
Not at all. You're assuming courts haven't slowed down since 2006/2007 and current Nadal would be able to contend with the 2006/2007 field on faster surfaces.
2013's weakened field (broke-back Murray, broke-back ******* and and relatively out-of-sorts Djokovic), in combination with the slow(er) surfaces (especially Cincinatti which even Nadal commented on), as well as being relatively fresher (having not played the full year) made Nadal's resurgent form more impressive than it actually was, especially compared to 2010.
Not in a best of 5-set format. Besides, it's well known Federer was ill during the 2004 encounter -- look it up; and the Dubai 2006 loss (on a fast surface no doubt) was more due to stubborness and inefficient tactics on Federer's part, rather than Federer's inability to execute and/or contend with Nadal's game (i.e.) top-spin spam to his backhand which he was only really susceptible to on clay in his prime. These day's Federer actually has the opposite problem -- tactically sound gameplay but inability to execute on account of his post-prime decline.
Merge current Federer's tactical nous with 2006/2007 Federer's physical prime and I would go as far as to say he would come out a victor more often than not against Nadal (even on clay).
Nadal's game allows for a relatively more safer margin for error than Federer's, so if anyone would have been at a disadvantage it would have been Federer, which is also one of the reasons he thrives in indoor conditions.
Federer of course. Nadal 2013 is way overrated.
Nadal 2008 or Nadal 2010 >>>>> Nadal 2013.
So you're admitting that Djokovic isn't that great?
How and why is Djokovic, all of the sudden, part of this discussion? :shock:
I'm not talking about 2009 overall. I was only talking about AO 09, even more so about AO 09 final. Nadal did play pretty aggressively in the final.
There's no match nadal has played this year that's above his level in his matches in AO 09 - all notable ones - haas, simon, verdasco and federer.
nadal overall was clearly weaker on HC in 2004-06, no question, but his level in the matches he won ( miami 04 and to a lesser extent dubai 06 ) was pretty high. Even in the miami 05 loss, it was pretty high for a major part .
I mean its not like he was playing well below his best level like he was doing vs youzhny for instance .... youzhny doesn't almost nothing better than federer, yet was supposedly considered a bad matchup for nadal that time, seriously ? youzhny just happened to catch nadal when nadal wasn't playing that well, that's it.
Come on man, you can't seriously believe that...there were times this year on HC (mostly during the USO triple) when I couldn't believe what I was seeing from Rafa. His athleticism isn't what it was in 09, but his intelligence, mental strength, and most importantly his strokes (forehand & serve especially) are on another level compared to 09.
his mental strength back then from clay season 2008 till about clay season 2009 was even better than what it is now.
People obviously remember that he saved 3 BPs at 4 all in the 3rd set vs djoker at this year's USO. But he did the very same at 5 all in the 3rd set vs federer at AO 09 . I'm pretty sure very few remember that now.
He saved 3 MPs vs djoker in madrid 09 with scintillating winners as well .
His FH and serve were just as lethal as they are now. And in AO 09, he was hitting winners left right off his BH wing.
2009 Madrid semifinal Nadal was incredibly tough. The guy just refused to lose.
Big hit on your credibility there man. Nadal's forehand is MILES ahead of where it was 4 years ago. I'm telling you right now..You give this 2013 Nadal the quickness, speed, endurance, and overall athleticism of Nadal at his best in 2009, you're looking at the single most unstoppable player ever. Calendar slam type player. His game has evolved to a new level since 2009, it's his physique that has declined.
I don't think so at all. His FH back then was just as lethal as it is now, if not more.
Maybe this highlight clip will help you refresh your memories
You could also watch the whole match if you have more time..
More useless dribble from you.
The comparison is with 2013 Nadal not AO09 Nadal. Nadal himself has admitted that his serve has improved a lot.
First guy to win the USO losing serve only 4 times. He would NEVER have achieved that in 09.
Nadal 2013 would def beat Fed 06 and 07 on HC as well more often than not. LOL 19 yr old Nadal beat 06 Fed in Dubai on fast HC and 2013 Nadal is certainly better than Nadal back then.
Keep living in your Fed deluded world where beating Roddick, Blake, Baghdatis and Ljubicic means he'd beat 2013 Rafa LMFAO.
The only surfaces 06/07 Fed would beat 2013 Rafa is grass and also indoor HC. Clay and Outdoor HC goes to Rafa.
Make as many excuses as you want, Nadal OWNS Fed, the outdoor HC record is 7-2. That's not from circumstantial events.
That fifth set in the RG SF was probably the highest level he's ever played on clay. The amount of winners he was hitting from everywhere against one of the best defenders in the history of the game on a slow surface was remarkable.
Lol and nadal struggled and nearly lost to federer ranked below #5 this year at cincy. This with nadal playing the best he has there and federer far from it.
Keep living in your deluded world where the rafa-davy HC h2h has to do with circumstances mainly and fed-nadal HC outdoor h2h isn't . :lol:
Nadal was beating Federer back in '06 and '07. He's better now, particularly on hard. Nadal will win, with the possible exception of at Wimbledon.
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