Federer and Nadal Down 2-0 Sets

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by McEnroeisanartist, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    Fed reached 6 straight USO finals. He couldn't do better than that. He played his part every year between 2005-2009, when Nadal was always below him at no.2

    Surely you can't expect him to keep reaching finals past 29.
     
    #51
  2. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Federer didn't reach Nadal in 2010, 2011 or 2013 either.
     
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  3. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Read the above posts...
     
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  4. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    2014 US Open Quarterfinal.
    Gael Monfils: Federer Started Mixing Everything Up, That’s Why He’s The Greatest
     
    #54
  5. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    If you're gonna discount 04-07 for Nadal being too young then you should also discount any wins that Nadal's had over Federer in the last couple of years(when Fed still managed to reach him in the latter stages irrespective of his form at the time) when Roger's been too old. That seems about right to me.
     
    #55
  6. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    agreed !

    it was fun to have those 5-sets finals (even more when courier loses, it's true) :) in some 'regular' tournaments back in the (not so) 'old' times...

    and now they don't even let us having a best-of-5 in the WTF... WTF !!! :(
     
    #56
  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I don't discount them. Nadal wasn't good enough to get to the final of the Australian Opens and US Opens that he played when he was 18-21. That's all there is to it.
     
    #57
  8. Egoista

    Egoista Professional

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    nadal is mentally stronger unfortunately

    but thats just him
     
    #58
  9. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    And yet Fed is still good enough to get to Slam finals between 30-33! :razz:
     
    #59
  10. tennisfan87

    tennisfan87 Rookie

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    I didn't do that, you should read more carefully. I only excused him for 2004 because, not only was he just a teenager back then, but the most important thing - not a top player yet. Is that so hard to understand?

    Maybe Novak should've reached the UO final that year too? So what if he was only 17 years old and nowhere close to being a top player? As you say, it doesn't matter.

    It was just 1 match and with a good reason, not the whole 2004 - 2007 period as you say.

    And I just did that :)

    So we have this situation: I excused Rafa for only 1 match because he wasn't a top player yet. I started counting from the moment he became a top 2 player and won his 1st slam, 2005 RG. We have 3 other matches - 2005, 2006, 2007.

    Nadal didn't reach Federer those 3 times (teenager, was just a claycourt specialist) but Federer also didn't reach Rafa in 2010, 2011 and 2013 (because of age, decline, being out of prime).

    Like I said, it all balances itself out in the end. I have excused both of them in this case. And if you want, you can take away Rafa's 1st win over Federer ( 2004 Miami, they didn't meet in any other matches that year) and swap it with that 2004 UO final where he didn't meet Federer.

    Again, it all balances itself out. They're even in this case.

    This I agree with. Rafa was in his peak and prime years in 2008 and 2009 so I can give those 2 matches to Roger. But that's still only 2 matches and not 6 like many like to emphasize.

    I think it's fair. I have excused both of them, Rafa for 2004 - 2007, Roger for 2010, 2011, 2013 (so that's even) and I gave Roger those 2 matches in 2008 and 2009 (Rafa's peak and prime years).

    So that's +2 for Roger but not +6 as initially stated. Can posters agree with this?
     
    #60
  11. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    Federer missed 3 matches: 2010,2011,2013

    Nadal missed 5 matches: 2005-2009.

    5>3.

    Nadal therefore missed more matches than Federer.
     
    #61
  12. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    tennisfan87 - I agree that the difference was overstated.
     
    #62
  13. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    take out 2011 from that ...he played djokovic much closer in the semi than rafa did in the final ..

    the rest of it is fine ....though one could still nitpick about 13 -- because it was an injury-affected year for federer ...
     
    #63
  14. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    #64
  15. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Laver won the cygs at 31. Rosewall made it to 2 finals in a row at age 40. Agassi was still making finals in his mid 30's.

    Stop making out that 30 is like 80, it isn't. You don't just suddenly stop being able to run and lose all your fitness. Federer is in better condition than most of the 25 year olds on tour.

    Federer is one of the greatest HC champions, yet even he wasn't making it to finals at age 18-21.

    Nadal's best ball is on clay. He made it to the clay major final almost immediately and has continuously done so for the past 10 years apart from 2009.

    However, Nadal still made it to his first HC major final at roughly the same age as Federer was when he first made it to a HC major final. The only problem for Nadal is, Djokovic played unbelievable tennis from A02011 - AO2012. He effectively took away 2 HC titles and a Wimbledon title Nadal would have won. Nobody of that calibre arrived during Federer's peak, only the same old pigeon Roddick, Hewitt and 34+ yr old Agassi were consistently facing him in majors.

    Put a 35 year old Agassi against Nadal in US2011 and in 2005 put 2011 Djokovic against Federer. The trophy cabinet would look very different with Nadal having 3 US Opens and Federer 4.

    Furthermore, had the 2010 and 2013 version of Nadal showed up to the US Open in any of the 2 years from 04-07 you can take away 2 US Opens from Federer and add them to Nadal because he won't be beating Nadal playing at his best.

    Federer's a great player, but his slam count and achievements are inflated. He had a 4 year period where there was very little to really challenge him apart from Nadal on clay (and in 07 Nadal on grass). If peak Djokovic was in Federer's path and not in Nadal's things would be very different. If you don't believe that then why all of a sudden Federer stopped winning 3 majors a year from 2008 onwards? Only 2009 he won 2 and that was because Nadal was out of the way. You really want to tell me that 26-28 is too old? Why doesn't Nadal have that problem at age 26-28? Nadal's 2014 is a definite drop from 2013, but he still made it to AO final and won RG against his main rival. If it weren't for bad luck with injuries (something that has plagued him his entire career) who knows what he would've achieved. He'd probably have beaten Stan in the AO final and made it to the US final again this year. I say this because he's dominated Stan in the past without even losing a set and made it to the final in 5 of the last 6 HC slams he's played in and it's not like the competition is tough this year, it's dropped off big time with Murray not reaching his best, Del Potro being out, Nadal being out, Djokovic focusing on family and young players still fragile in majors for the most part.

    But hey it's ok, there's no point trying to convince you with logic, believe what you want.
     
    #65
  16. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    No you can't still nitpick 2013 because he tanked to freaking Robredo. Nadal had an injury affected 2009 and no one's *****ing about that now are they? He couldn't serve for sh*t against Del Po.

    And the performance of Roger in 2011 US being closer to beating Novak than Rafa has nothing to do with it. Roger still failed to reach the final against Nadal who was sitting there waiting.

    I don't understand your point anyway, the same thing would happen to Fed as AO. He'd win a set here and there, but ultimately we all know the result will be another Nadal victory because Federer isn't good enough to consistently beat Nadal in majors, particularly outdoor HC ones where his record stands at 0 wins and 3 losses.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
    #66

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