Federer backs out of Davis Cup vs. Spain...how surprising

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by crackbillionair, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    ...Yeah, not really.

    I called this months back on the 'Sampras-Federer' mental toughness thread.

    Federer, going to Spain on clay to play Nadal? Right. This was so obviously not happening.

    People want to discredit Davis Cup and whatnot, and that's fine. But Sampras DID go to Moscow, he did beat Kafelnikov and his other singles match AND the doubles, and USA won the tie 3-2 with Sampras figuring in each of the victories.

    It is such. These are facts. Dispute them as you will, as indisputable as facts are.
     
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  2. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    It's not about mental toughness, or Sampras, for that matter.

    Federer knows that Wawrinka will very likely not play, and with he rest of the swiss team it's impossible to beat Spain on clay.
    Federer would only risk losing points in Indian Wells and maybe even Miami if he played. It makes more sense to skip it and try to break one of the last huge open-era records (weeks at #1).

    Btw, Sampras has played and won less DC-matches in his career than Federer has up to this point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
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  3. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    BTW, Sampras WON 3 DC titles. Defeatist attitude? If Roger wins both singles, you think the Swiss has no chance in doubles?

    A lot of good players will be 'hurting' their chances at pts, and yet, they play for country.

    Yeah, this is about Wawrinka. It has nothing to do with not wanting any part of Nadal in that setting.
     
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  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He is afraid of getting beat again by Nadal.
     
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  5. PimpMyGame

    PimpMyGame Hall of Fame

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    If it's not surprising, and you already called it, why are you still moaning about it? In any case you can't compare one player playing in a final to another not playing in a first round which will be virtually impossible to win.
     
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  6. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    One word: Priorities.
     
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  7. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    Robredo also won DC titles, a lot depends on your teammates.

    And yes, there's pretty much no chance to win doubles against spain on CLAY if Wawrinka doesn't show up.

    Nadal probably won't play either.
     
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  8. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    Not that it's a terrible thing, to not give Rafa a crack at him in 5 sets 2 months before Roland Garros, if you want to consider it gamesmanship.

    It still reeks of fear though. How does Roger jerk around that Severin Lutti character knowing he's gonna leave him holding the bag, just about every time?

    Say whatever you want about Pete Sampras. But he had more balls than Federer.
     
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  9. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    Too bad it's about winning in tennis, and not about balls :).
     
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  10. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    Roger and Yves Alegro is a better doubles team than most nations have to offer.

    Nadal has the luxury of not playing now that Roger is out.

    Sampras carried his team on his back to a DC title. Robredo is very much a complimentary player on that roster.
     
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  11. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    Right, and Sampras won 3 DC titles. That was about winning, wasn't it?
     
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  12. HellBunni

    HellBunni Rookie

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    i think the whole davis cup is a joke, total joke.

    1.) you have to defend the title, as soon as you've won it.

    2.) it's not really a "team", it's really only needs 2 players. That's all you need...

    they should restrict it to low ranking pros if not amateurs, and a player can't play more than 1 match.
     
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  13. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    Allegro is not in good form from what I've heard (and hasn't been in a while), and on clay he would even struggle in doubles against the likes of Nadal, Verdasco and Ferrer.

    I don't get why that win against Kafelnikov is hailed as one of Sampras' greatest achievments.
    I watched that match recently and more than anything did Kafelnikov play worse than usual (lack of power on his usually hard groundies). Sampras himself played well but did nothing extraordinary.

    If Sampras was such a force in DC, how is it possible that Federer will (probably) end up with about twice as many DC wins?
     
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  14. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    It's only an impossible task because Roger thinks it is.
     
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  15. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Well if Fed and Wawa aren't playing, then why would they even need Nadal?

    I'm sure just Robredo and Ferrer could take.. who? Chiudinelli and Bohli?

    It'd be overkill to send Nadal in, especially when he'll want to be focused on defending his Indian Wells title.

    I'm sure Rafa is relieved that Roger's pulled out of the DC tie.
     
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  16. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    To stay on my point, doesn't Robredo also have 2 or 3 DC titles?
     
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  17. TheMusicLover

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    90% chance he isn't going to play it either. No need to, and the IW/Miami Masters are far more important for the both of them. It wouldn't even surprise me if they've discussed it beforehand.
     
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  18. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    A few reasons: once you win a few titles, you really don't have to break your back anymore. Someone who knows the history of the game like Roger should care a little more about it.

    Also, the Americans had Chang, Agassi, Martin, and Courier as well, so Pete didn't have to play as much.

    But he played when called on.

    As for Kafelnikov, you had a multiple slam champ, playing at home, on his chosen surface. And it wasn't that match in isolation, it was that he won both singles and the doubles, all in best of 5 set matches on clay. And the way he did it.

    Nadal could end up with less than half of Fed's DC match wins, but since he has won the thing it doesn't really matter...he gets to relax if he wants.
     
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  19. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    Yes. Spain could have those titles with or without him. The Swiss will never have a title w/o Roger.
     
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  20. Sartorius

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    IMO, people are too fast to think that the sole reasons for Federer's decision are Nadal, clay, Spanish DC team, and so forth.

    We know for a fact that Roger has never shown too much interest in DC. In his own words, other things matter to him more. So I think this decision actually has very little if not nothing to do with Nadal, clay, or Spain. I think he would still withdraw even if the Swiss were to face another team. Federer has always been extremely carefully with his schedule, aiming to peak at the right times of the season.

    It's also ironic that Federer actually has played a lot more DC matches than some of the players mentioned in this thread.

    And on another note, Federer's career is far from over. There may be a time when he decides to give it a real go. But that may be a time when Federer perhaps feels that he's not strong enough to say No. 1, or to chase all GS titles.

    I think this has nothing to do with "having balls".
     
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  21. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    Well, I like calling stuff. And then calling the fact that I called it. OK?
     
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  22. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    Actually, Sampras never really gave a sh*t about DC, otherwise he would've played far more than 28 matches in his career.
    Nadal at 23 has won just 3 matches less than Pete, despite the fact that Spain has had a pretty strong team for years.

    It's useless anyway to compare Switzerland and countries like USA/Spain when it comes to DC.
     
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  23. LiveForever

    LiveForever Banned

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    Federer doesnt wanna further ruin his H2H.
     
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  24. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I don't see why Fed should play DC. Many former greats are suggesting it should be held only every 2 years. Tennis was not a team/country sport until Dwight Davis decided to have friendly competition between US and other countries, and got himself appointed captain of the team, and donated the prize for it. He was also a politician. Seems more like a personal ego thing to me. Tennis is a global sport and doubles and mixed doubles teams are often made up of partners from different countries. There is really no team to begin with and the players don't usually practise together outside the DC time. Some like Paes and Bhupathi can't stand each other. Others like the Williams will not play if the rest of the team is not good. Others refuse to play the dead rubber. The Russian women who come together for Fed cup hate each other's guts. Then why put up a charade for the DC/FC?
     
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  25. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    Right. We know from his actions, having played so much DC in the past that it's not important to him to play DC. "Ironically" he has played more DC than Sampras and others, since he doesn't care about it...

    This is all about Nadal and the fact that Federer has a selfish attitude toward DC. Federer won't play a match between end of Jan. and DC, were he to play it. It would hardly affect his world standing at all.

    Federer has a 'me' attitude here. He played when it was good for him. When it was good exposure to 5 set tennis as a youngster.

    Not since. To expect him to play Nadal on clay? Ha. No way was it ever gonna happen.

    Jimmy Connors was like that. Me, me, me. And he came back to DC at the end of his career. And he lost.

    Federer would sonner play a big money exhibition against Rafa on clay than DC. The guy doesn't have enough money?

    As a fan, I want to see this DC with each team at its full compliment. And if Stan doesn't play, well, Stan always plays, so I can give him the pass. And I understand Federer's priorities are with singles and that's great for a Fed fan like me.

    But I am not gonna apologize for him when he ducks out of DC vs. Spain, especially when he has implied that he is gonna play DC this yr. What's he gonna play? The relegation matches against Zimbabwe?
     
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  26. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, I find it a shame that Federer rarely plays first round. But I understand it this time as well. I mean, it's right before the hardcourt MS tourneys, it's on red clay, it's in Spain. It's all bad circumstances, plus chances are you are gonna lose and you are gonna lose to Rafa, on the terribly bubblegum-like, clay. I can understand this. What I don't understand is why it feels like Switzerland never plays at home first round :S
     
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  27. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    When did he imply he was definitely going to play DC this year?

    The right attitude in a sport like tennis, I would say..?

    Yeah... Uhm.. So what are you saying?
     
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  28. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    #28
  29. Dedans Penthouse

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    "Grapes" Federer?

    And THAT was the last time the US won the David Cup. Imagine that: on red clay. The "clay court bum" Sampras having to go on the road to beat a guy on red clay in the deciding match--a guy who owns a French Open title and a former #1 ranking. Unless I was a fanboy, I'd say that showed some "sack."

    Fed should try and beat 'em at their own game. Hell, he's gotten to the finals of the French year after year (when he wasn't winning it), i.e. he was the "#2" player in the world on clay, something that Sampras never really was, so why not go for it?
     
    #29
  30. ronnyy7

    ronnyy7 Rookie

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    Fail thread.
     
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  31. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    If countries want their players to play DC/FC, let them work with the ITF and the ATP/WTA on scheduling, draw up a contract with the players, and get the whole thing integrated into the sport in a proper fashion with everyone's consensus. Just popping up now and then and insisting that players show "patriotism" is ridiculous. A player like Fed sends most of his time outside his country, and prefers to be in Dubai in the off-times. Others like the Russians stash their money outside Russia for tax purposes and train in the US or Europe. So why this charade?
     
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  32. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    That is still competition and a chance for Roger to beat Nadal on clay, in 5 sets.

    As a Roger fan, I want that. I want to see him go to Spain, hostile crowd, and win. I guess that's too much to ask.
     
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  33. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    You mean now he's no. 3 or now he's no. 1 on clay? Fed should first and foremost defend his ranking and do what's best for him. He's always been a lot better at scheduling than most top pro's.
     
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  34. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    the DC tie is on clay and right before Indian Wells.Why would he go all the way to Spain and then immediately to Indian Wells to play on an entirely different surface?
    Also-Nadal hasnt confirmed his participation in this tie either.
    And no,Sampras didnt win the DC ,USA did thanks to a good team.
    Roger atleast needs Wawa to back him up but he's going to be out because of his baby's birth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
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  35. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    They should just pick a year.. Maybe next year (they can't draw Spain away anymore), and just decide to totally go for it together..
     
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  36. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    Well, actually it's not too much to ask I guess. No problem in wanting that.

    The thing is, Federer probably feels that going to Spain and beating Nadal on clay (in a tournament not called Roland Garros) is less important to him than staying in best shape possible for other tournaments and also for the long season ahead.
     
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  37. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    Yeah, DP, I tend to agree, except the US won the DC in 2007 w/Roddick, Blake, and the Bryans.

    And for the person who says Sampras didn't care about DC...I beg to differ. They had to scrape him off the court in Moscow, and when you have 3 titles, it's a bit different.

    Nadal never has to play it again. He's won. Sampras didn't care? No, I guess not. He just hit aces.

    BTW, I'm not about to pull up the quotes, but when you make the DC coach your coach, what does that say?
     
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  38. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    It takes 3 match wins to win a tie. Sampras won singles A, singles B, and doubles. Jim Courier LOST his 2 singles matches. America = Sampras in that tie.

    As far as affecting his readiness for tournaments he did poorly at last year...Just about every other top guy out there will be playing DC and will be 'jeopardizing' their ability in Key Biscayne or IW.

    I bet a lot of DC participants have good months of March.
     
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  39. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    er.............who is this 'every other top guy?'
    Last time I checked Murray has already pulled out and Nadal's participation hasnt been confirmed.
    Also,did Sampras play ALL the DC ties everytime America won in those days?
    You base your entire conclusion on one tie.Great going.
    Its not Federer's fault the Swiss team cant do anything without him and he's not going to be there to save them atleast as long as he's got important goals in his singles career.
     
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  40. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    It's not too satisfying. I thought that there was a chance that Federer was actually gonna show some stones this time around, on a grand stage.

    But then again, in the end, I knew it would never happen.

    I don't like all this Nadal stuff. Can't stand it. I hate the chirping of Nadal fans. My attitude is Roger can beat anyone, anywhere, anytime.

    Too bad that's not HIS attitude.
     
    #40
  41. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    yeah fortunately what you think about his attitude isnt important.
     
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  42. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    That's why Federer has won 15 Slams, is never injured in a Slam, has won a lot of MS titles, has been no. 1 for 250 weeks, and is the best player of the decade, if not in history, and any other top player ISN'T. I understand your disappointment, but calling Federer a coward is just ridiculous. He never plays DC.
     
    #42
  43. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Maybe you have hang ups that Roger doesn't. He doesn't need to prove anything to anybody.
     
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  44. rocket

    rocket Hall of Fame

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    You make perfect sense when you're sober. ;)
     
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  45. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    But it is not fun to be sober
     
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  46. crackbillionair

    crackbillionair Rookie

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    And none of us want to see Roger beat Nadal on clay in best of 5 tennis. The opportunity to do so may no longer come at RG. Here was a chance. And if he played and Nadal backed out, that would be a whole different story than this one.

    Now Nadal won't have people questioning him when he pulls out. Roger could have at least kept the pressure on here for a bit longer.

    If you don't think Roger has Nadal hangups, you're crazy. Yes, Roger can be the best, the best ever, the all time slam champ...all of it.

    No, he doesn't have to beat Nadal too much, obiously, on order to do it. But it certainly would be nice to silence the final argument.
     
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  47. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    agreed.I mean we'd have never known Cincy was the REAL slam had it not been for Suresh.
    And he made another excellent point.
     
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  48. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    I understand your position but the timing of the tie and the surface is difficult for any player who'll want to compete at a high level for many tournaments .Its not easy to do the whole travelling in such a short period without physical and mental fatigue .Roger rarely plays the first tie for the Swiss anyway so its not a surprise he didnt this time.
     
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  49. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

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    Good call by Federer. To hell with patriotism so I hope Rafa does the same. He should skip it and focus more on increasing his longevity and winning slams.

    Federer may appear selfish but it's a smart move. Rafa should follow suit.
     
    #49
  50. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Rafa has a better team and therefore better shot for his nation to win DC. Roger only has Wawrinka and their chances are slim.

    Therefore, rafa should play.
     
    #50

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