Federer calls for biological passports to detect doping

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by akind, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. monfed

    monfed Guest

    You stooping that low is irrelevant because Federer taking PEDs isn't even in the realm of possibility.

    The same can't be said about Djokovic and Ralph.
     
    #51
  2. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    Please anyone who keeps insisting that ***** and Ralph aren't hip-deep in PEDs is lying.
     
    #52
  3. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    They're covering it up. It would destroy tennis if Fed got caught and they made it public.
     
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  4. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Lol, this isn't because you're a Fed fan though...
     
    #54
  5. I can't believe I'm about to do this.

    First off, I will say this. Federer taking PEDs is absolutely in the realm of "possibility", and I will explain why.

    Many people here talk about doping out of complete ignorance. Things like muscle mass on the guys, or being ripped are hardly strong evidence of doping, and all of the silent ban talk is largely just troll speak born out of a need to slander someone you dislike. Just a tiny bit of looking into the topic makes a few things clear. Cheating in sports is generally extremely "easy". And if one guy is doing it, it's a strong likelihood that MOST of them are. Why is this? Read on.

    The margins in top level sports are simply way too thin. The top players are simply too good as a whole, there is simply no way for one or two of them to be "doping" and the others are clean, but still winning. Think about it, most of these guys are largely splitting matches, often times the outcome depending on just a few points! Anyone who thinks one guy is so superior vs. the other are simply deluding themselves, and are completely ignorant fans of one person, and not the game.

    A starting point would be to read the several years old book, Game of Shadows. To people not familiar with the various forms of doping it is eye opening. After reading it, it is quite clear that all of the major sports are extremely tainted by drugs. Track (by the way, if you think Usain Bolt is clean you are a fool), baseball, football...do you not think this includes soccer/football, boxing, and of course...tennis among others? Do people really think tennis players aren't doping for endurance, somewhere out there? All of the other TOP athletes that were caught doping in the past felt they had to do so just to compete on a level playing field. Why would tennis be different with major bucks on the line? And here is where we get into the top players...

    Why is Federer just as likely to be doping as the others? He has just as many signs as the other top players. Ridiculous endurance, as much if not more so than Nadal ever had if you ask me. Federer is fast approaching 32. How many times in his career has he been tired? All of the other guys generally break down at times. Yes, his fans try and explain this away, however people who say Federer expends "little energy" are quite foolish if you ask me. The guy runs miles on court, and slugs it out day after day against all of the hard hitting younger guys. I believe at the last AO match he and Nadal played it showed "miles run" at one point, and they were basically within one tenth the same distance, so he ain't running less. Maybe he comes across as a bit lighter on his feet, but if you stand there and watch, the guy is sprinting full bore and...well he's old. Yet there he is, with generally as much endurance as ever. If you want to get right down to it, Federer as is Lance Armstrong like as you get in tennis: a huge celebrity, with tons of money and support around him, and an image of "perfection." Armstrong denied all doping for over a decade as well. Now we are supposed to just believe other athletes when they say they are clean? I am not accusing him of anything of course, but plenty of the same signs are there for Federer as they are for Djokovic and Nadal, and to a lesser extent Murray.

    Do I believe there is doping in tennis? Yes, most likely. There is just no way it would be a clean sport if every other sport in the world is dirty. I am almost positive Serena is doing something, as well as Stosur (for various reasons, there are clear signs for both I think). On the men's side, I am not as sure. If one of the top four guys are doing it, I think they all are. They are simply too good and within the margins for there to be differences here.

    Look again at Nadal and Federer. Unprecedented dominance in the game over the past decade. Unprecedented endurance. Not only do these guys hit the ball harder than ever, they do it in longer matches than before, and sprint more than past players did.

    By the way, I don't doubt all of the top guys have tested clean. All of the past cheaters have. It's how the doping schemes are devised! You can be ON the stuff and test clean as they typically involve designer drugs. The cheaters know the tests, and they can develop programs that pass the tests. If you passed a test in school, did it mean you didn't cheat? Be real. All of the calling out of guys like Nadal saying make the results public, or Federer saying keep the blood samples is a red herring. Those samples are gone and they aren't coming back, Federer can say whatever he wants with impunity! "Hey I think they should keep all the samples, you know?" Well sure, that's fine to say when you're at the end of your career and you know nothing is going to be changed. Same with Nadal. Of course he wants the tests made public, he passed them. Doesn't mean he WASN'T cheating. Go look at the denials of every caught doper, ever. They say all the same things Federer and Nadal have said.

    The bottom line is that people think they know who is doping, but you really don't. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if all of the top guys are doing it. Not one bit. And to people who think there is no way Federer is doing it, pull your head out of your rectum. He has as much potential as everyone else, a guy who has never been tired, injured, with limitless energy over his entire career while playing basically full schedules every year and never missing a major in a decade+ or so. Yeah that makes tons of sense that he's not even a possible suspect.

    Bottom line, enjoy your favorite players and just forget about the drug stuff. Quit accusing the guy you "don't like" of being a sure doper while insisting your guy is clean. There is a decent chance we are all just better off not really knowing. There is a chance they are clean, but there is also a chance they are dirty. Either way, I'll still be hitting the crud out of the ball at my local courts because I dig the game of tennis.
     
    #55
  6. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Blast from the past! Hello T&M :), it's been a looooong time haha.

    I also cannot believe that your first post, after what 1.5 years, is addressing basically a troll post :lol:, this is why you left in the first place!

    How have you been? Been keeping up with tennis much?
     
    #56
  7. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

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    This.

    ESPN did a great job exposing the naïveté of some of the people here. I'll see if I can find it (since I have that match on my computer)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
    #57
  8. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    One should really take into account the amount of energy Nadal spends to push/brush the ball. Running is not everything, how many young marathon runners you have seen?
    Here is a good article on the subject:
    http://m.runnersworld.com/running-tips/age-matters?page=single
     
    #58
  9. Tafmatch

    Tafmatch Rookie

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    Not being able to play back to back 5-setters at age 31 would be pretty ridiculous for a pro, dope or no dope.

    The important thing to note is that Djoko is the only player able to do that without looking spent. 5 hour match followed by a 6 hour match? No problem!

    Maybe he's in better shape than the others but Djoko is the only player who seems suspicious to me. The 'diet' change is gold.

    But then again I wouldn't be surprised if they're all juicing.

    (Btw I like Pederer better than Doperer. Since you will call Fed any one of those names from now on, I vote Pederer.)
     
    #59
  10. fednad

    fednad Hall of Fame

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    So, let this board understand finally.
    If not that low, then how low would you fall?
     
    #60
  11. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Fantastic post T&M. This should SHUT a lot of people up regarding throwing around doping allegations if they bother to read it. Are people SERIOUSLY so naive to believe that if a Nadal or a Djokovic is doping the rest of them aren't?
    What Roger said about one or two guys being caught and cleanliness of the sport is a farce (and I say this as a fan). He knows the sport isn't clean. Guys like Wayne Odsenik are just scapegoats. Some sort of a "proof" that tennis is doing all it can to keep itself clean. The truth is, they matter very little in the grand scheme of things. And you can easily afford to throw them under the bus and live a happy life and make a lucrative career.
     
    #61
  12. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Since Djokodal Fan is obviously Djokovic fan, I guess he is from Serbia. And in Serbian word "peder" means "f*g" (derogatory term for gay men). I just don't understand why he uses it on this forum, no one knows what's he talking about.
     
    #62
  13. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    Is there any test that can determine whether a person doped a year back, then djokobich would be caught red handed lol. Defeating nadal in 7 straight finals , no one suspected but it has become clear now with his anti blood profiling agenda. 2007,'8,'9,'10 sleeping '11 drastic improvement defeating a 11 time gs champion
     
    #63
  14. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    TennisandMusic,

    generally, I agree with the spirit of your post with a couple of exceptions:

    Federer IS tired sometimes.

    Notable examples of this are big matches like:

    AO2009/Final: 5th set
    London2012: Final
    AO2013/SF: 5th set

    There are others as well, so, you are wrong here.

    Also, the guy HAS more efficient style than his main competitors. That is a fact.


    Depends on what keeps you dominant.

    Bolded part is incorrect.

    A substance may be out of your system, but there still can be other substances, that can point at doping. Plasticizers in Contador's case show that. After years, when more is known about the current doping methods and substances, everything can fall in its place.

    You are also saying, that Federer has nothig to lose. It is like saying, that Lance Armstrong had nothing to lose.


    He is a possible suspect. Just not for the majority of reasons you mention(the only exception being his recovery ability).

    Well, if you want to "keep it real", some questions will arise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
    #64
  15. natalia

    natalia Semi-Pro

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    Oh really? Fantastic?!?!?? I don't see anything fantastic about T&M's comment - only use of huge amount of words to say absolutely nothing.

    He/she could have very well said it directly 'Fed is doping coz I say so.'
    Pathetic and full of him/herself.
     
    #65
  16. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    and please, tell us, what happened in the 5th set? Nadal fans here love to point out how Federer was destroyed in the 5th set 6-2! Why? Because while Fed ran out of steam Nadal was still thrashing that ball and running around like there's no tomorrow. :shock:
     
    #66
  17. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    QFT
    PEDs***
     
    #67
  18. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    The moderators should delete those posts then because that's just not acceptable.
     
    #68
  19. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    And others haven't done that? Biggest example of recent being Clarky calling Djokovic 'Lance.'

    I disagree strongly, with T&M about Roger NOT being tired or having as much endurance as the other top guys. That's simply not true. In a fifth set, it is largely, in fact almost always, his serve which comes to his rescue, and god forbid, if his serve is off we end up getting results like the Delpo Final at the USO, the recent Fed v. Murray match and of course, Federer v Nadal at AO. All 6-2 final set losses.
    BUT, that is not the larger point he was trying to make. And this is one of the rare times I'm inclined to agree with him. If there is a doubt on one of them, there is a doubt on ALL of them.
     
    #69
  20. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Haha, no, he's calling Federer Pederer as in PEDerer, as in he uses PEDs (Performance Enahncing Drugs) like Fed fans call Nadal PEDal.

    I'm fairly certain he's not from Serbia (there are a number of Novak fans on this forum that aren't Serbs) and that he's oblivious to the meaning of the word in our language.
     
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  21. akind

    akind Banned

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    NO, we should not forget about the drug stuff. It is against the spirit of the sport. It is against fair sportmanship. We should strive to fight doping and investigate them. A wikileaks-style journalism into sport world would be a good way to go.

    I would not enjoy watching a sport match which shows fake ability involving dirty drug tricks. I do not want my future generation to abuse their body and destroy themselves by taking harmful drugs.
     
    #71
  22. vladap

    vladap Rookie

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    Post of the thread
     
    #72
  23. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    Yeah , I'm from Serbia and I'll assume you are from Antartica. You really are a Genius sir!

    Have ever dug into my posts? The common word I use is LADDU. that tells me a lot about being a Serbian.

    The quality of some of the posters in this forum is amazing to say the least. And then you have some new trolls like mariecom to add to the mix
     
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  24. Newland Archer

    Newland Archer Banned

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    So much truth here.
     
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  25. Rocky89

    Rocky89 Professional

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    What about when people claim that Nadal is doping as if it's a fact? It's ok to accuse him left, right and centre but when someone dare consider the possibility that Federer might be doping that suddenly makes the poster pathetic and wrong?

    The truth is anyone can make a case that any player is doping, doesn't mean they are right or wrong.
     
    #75
  26. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    T&M's post was not pathetic, he made some good points. Doping is rife in all pro sports and most if not all of the top athletes are doping. The sooner people realize this idea, the better it will be if and when a scandal comes down the road in relation to a big tennis star. It has happened in every other sport so it will probably happen in tennis too. You have to assume that all of the top tennis players are doping. The margins are small and the competition is fierce and to add to that as we have seen from the Armstrong case, the sponsors and the governing bodies of a sport are complicit in this whole PED use story. They all have something to gain by having its big star athletes dope.

    Posters on this board do a lot of finger pointing at the players they don't like by saying player X dopes but it is impossible player Y (my fave player) dopes. This is simply stupidity at its finest if you really think about it. The reality is that they likely all dope and there is really nothing anybody can do to change it. Even if you have big players implicated in PED use down the road do you really think that will stop future players from doping? There will always be bigger and better drugs. Even if they use biological passports do you think if a big star player is caught using drugs that the public will find out about it?
     
    #76
  27. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Ok chill dude, I just assumed OK? Because here in Serbia, Federer haters right stuff like that all the time on websites or forums.
     
    #77
  28. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Most of your post was bang on the money but the bolded part above I don't agree with at all. Tennis is a highly skill-based sport in which drug use wont offer the same clear during-match advantages that you'd see in the sports which have the worst drug-use reps - low skilled, repetition-based sports like cycling, swimming, running etc.

    While the advantages of using PEDS in cycling is the difference between being 500th or top 5, in tennis it would only matter sometimes and in specific, extreme situations - such as playing another baseline battler. The skill aspect far supersedes the physical aspect for many shots and match-ups in tennis. The gains to be made will be much more subtle imo.
     
    #78
  29. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    What he supposed to do.....not say anything. Well either way you would still think he is on PED....look at your Avatar.....your Boy Is screaming with his Peds.

    Honestly think Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic are doping. Nadal possibly the bigger range of druggie than the other two.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
    #79
  30. Love_No1e

    Love_No1e New User

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    Just as Novak looked tired at the end of the USO 2012 final when he went into the match with not even a full days rest. But of course that will be down to superior play fomr Andy or wind, not the fact that he was gassed because Novak obviously never looks gassed.
     
    #80
  31. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    I dont get it.
    If he thinks tennis is clean, then why ?

    Is he suspicious of someone, or trying to suggest something ?
     
    #81
  32. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Laddu means 'a cheat' in serbian. So you are a Serbian after all.

    :) :)
     
    #82
  33. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Laddu is an Indian word, I know that as I am also an Indian. It means a yellow color sweet It's tasty and I like it
     
    #83
  34. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Him using that specific several times doesn't mean he (Djokodal fan) is Indian.
     
    #84
  35. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Laddu comes in more colours than just yellow :evil: It depends on the mix you make it with. :evil: :mrgreen:

    Hi zagour. You must try laddu :mrgreen:
     
    #85
  36. mariecon

    mariecon Hall of Fame

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    What you're saying is pathetic and stupid!!!! How is someone saying that Federer and Nadal ran the same number of miles at the AO a valid point when we all know that Federer had nothing left in the 5th set?

    T&M said: "I believe at the last AO match he and Nadal played it showed "miles run" at one point, and they were basically within one tenth the same distance, so he ain't running less..."

    Clearly you didn't watch the match if you think the two of them were running the same amount. Maybe as of the 4th set they had run the same amount (within 10% which can mean the difference between winning and losing a point) but by the time the 5th set came around Federer was spent while Nadal was still thrashing that ball and running around like there's no tomorrow. So, saying "at one point" they were running the same amount doesn't equal "he ain't running less" because after that point he clearly slowed down. And please show me where in my post I said that meant Nadal was doping? Please. Show me.
     
    #86
  37. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    But in what colour? :)
     
    #87
  38. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    I doubt whether anyone else has heard about the word Laddu. Thats why I said that.

    Yeah, Mandy, it comes in red also. How could I miss that?
     
    #88
  39. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    LOL Feather, there are A LOT of Indians on this board, I would think many people have heard of laddus :)

    Also, Sentinel is Indian, he's just messing around :D
     
    #89
  40. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    I know Sentinel is an Indian. He is from New Delhi. Laddu is a south indian sweet. I know that there are many Indians in this board. I only meant that only Indians, that too South Indians, would know that word.
     
    #90
  41. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    LOL I didn't expect that .... are you serious?

    If you google LADDU, first thing you'll see is something like tennis balls smaller in size, but its edible :)
     
    #91
  42. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    contrary to your belief that I'm a double account of Djokovicforthewin, Djokovic2008, clarky21 (which ever), I'm actually not. And yes I grew up in India and now live in the US (if you could track my posting times)

    But I would probably not take this discussion any further since it doesn't pertain to anything useful related to this thread!

    But well you can still assume that I'm eastern europe or brazil or anywhere!
     
    #92
  43. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    I don't have a problem if you call everybody for using PEDS, I just simply cannot buy the slander that some Federer trolls bring to the table simply accusing Novak, Nadal or Murray of doping just because fed gets defeated!

    I have a lot of respect for Fed and what he has brought to tennis, but his fans ARE the most annoying to say the least. My posts are solely intended for such fans.
     
    #93
  44. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Never accused you of being Djokovicforthewin or Clarky21, the only thing you and DFTW have in common is that neither of you are Novak fans in the slightest (you only root for him when he plays Nadal in his case and Federer in your case).

    This thread is useless either way, what top stars publicly state on doping (while they're still active) is largely irrelevant, it's all PR nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

    We all assume things.
     
    #94
  45. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    Djokovic disagrees.
     
    #95
  46. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    Ah, I knew I was missing something. Wait though, I thought everybody knows about laddu. I'm from North India and well, everyone eats them around there from what I can remember. Until unless I am again missing something in what you're trying to say? lol
     
    #96
  47. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    So now I'm confused - when I've heard people use expressions like "heheh - you get laddu", I always thought they were making fun of the other person as in "you loser, you" :confused:
     
    #97
  48. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    In that sense, laddu can be equated to "egg" in English, with both objects representing a figurative "0" (zero) in those cases.

    So you're understanding was correct!
     
    #98
  49. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    Sir, I thank you for that clarification!
     
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  50. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Best thread derail in a long time.

    btw, laddoo is not just a South-Indian sweetmeat. It's there in the North as well. I suspect its a North-Indian word. And it's full of calories, so Zagor, beware.
     

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