Federer fans need to warm up to Murray

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by monfed, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Lose? Your anti-jinxing is a little excessive don't you think? It's not like Ralph needs your help or anything on the clay,he's a beast on it. :oops:
     
    #51
  2. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    I don't need your assurance, I believe you. I'm more concerned about the possibility of a mass suicide of Federer fans caused by you. What if Nadal beats Murray on his way to winning the remaining 3 majors?
     
    #52
  3. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Well, you're still here after Fed surpassed Pete's slam count, still alive and kicking. :lol:
     
    #53
  4. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    That's because nothing has changed. Sampras is still the GOAT for me even if Federer wins another 20 majors lol. You on the other hand is panicking because some crippled claycourter has amassed 11 majors lol.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
    #54
  5. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

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    I can't tell if half of Nadal's "fanbase" are just fanbois of Petros and Andre who are in it for the gloryhunting/revenge/twisted keyboard jockey fantasy or if they're actual fans.
     
    #55
  6. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Really? Sampras supporters can never be Nadal supporters?
     
    #56
  7. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Ya must be off ya rockers Monfed. King Muzza barely beats the Spanish lapdog on his beloved grinder pathetic excuse you call a surface hard court, and you think he has a chance against ol' peg leg on his GOAT sandy surface? :lol: Novak is the Chosen One, The Son of GOD!!! and will prove this when he retires ol' peg leg in Monte Carlo. If not then, it will be the tournament after that one or the tournament after that one...and so on until we the people are victorious. :)
    You see..we all win at the end my ******. Novak Djokovic was placed on this planet for one reason and one reason only..to end the life of one Rafael Nadal. 8)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
    #57
  8. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I do wish Djokovic would play as he did in 2011 again, he was hitting with such pace and accuracy off the ground. His ground strokes look pretty tame these days. I'm hoping he gives Nadal a fight on the clay, it's a been a forgone conclusion for two long during this part of the season.
     
    #58
  9. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    I wouldn't support Murray if I was paid to do so.
     
    #59
  10. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Lol, Djokovic has been more of a thorn in Federer's side than Nadal's.
     
    #60
  11. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic never beat Federer 7 times in a row including 3 major finals.

    Don't forget the h2h stood at 13-6 for Federer at the end of 2010. Since then Federer has started to struggle against 3-4 more players.
     
    #61
  12. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Sounds like an al-quaeda type of group....
     
    #62
  13. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Djokovic has beaten Federer 5 times in majors. Perhaps the best thing about Rafa losing so much to Djokovic is that it was within a 365 day period. Nadal beat Djokovic 5 times in a row before, 3 in a row now and has a greater lead with the H2H.
     
    #63
  14. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    While that's true, you have to look at when the matches occured in terms of where Federer and Nadal were respectively.

    Federer in the last few years has lost a lot of matches to Djokovic, but so what? He's losing more to other players too, he's getting older and coming to the end of his career.

    Djokovic denied a probable Federer tournament win at the AO 2008, but his other wins over Federer in slams USO2010, 2011, AO 2011, RG 2012 - was Federer going to win those matches? Probably not. Maybe one, maybe two, but he was still not favourite in all but AO2011 where he'd have faced Murray.

    On the other hand, Nadal quite possibly could have won 5 slams in a row without Djokovic (RG 2011, W2011, USO2011, AO2012, RG2012) which would have put him into GOAT contention with 14 slams and a Rafa slam. Djokovic halted Nadal's dominance that was rolling on from 2010. He could have added to the 3 slams in 2010 with IW, Miami, MC, Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimbledon and the US Open. And probably would have if not for Djokovic.

    Don't forget that Federer once led Djokovic 13-6, this was at the end of 2010 and it's no doubt that Federer had passed his prime for sure after 2010. So a lot of Djokovic's wins haven't really robbed Federer of anything, he was just the man who happened to beat him. Even so Federer leads 16-13. Nadal leads 19-15 (edi, I meant 19-14) - not a huge difference, if one of those matches had gone the other way it would have been 18-15 which is also a 3 match difference like Federer vs Djokovic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
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  15. 2TennisRackets

    2TennisRackets New User

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    I agree, but Novak is my #1, and Andy Murray is my #2 player. Someone MUST STOP Nadal! :(
     
    #65
  16. tennisbuck

    tennisbuck Professional

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    I don't like either Nadal or Murray either. Djokovic has become a gentleman as he has gotten older. I hated him more than nadal or murray when he came up but now he is classy. I just can't deal with Nadal's gamesmanship. Its just trash to me. So i will pull for Djokovic over either of them and if Nadal and murray play i won't root for anyone lol
     
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  17. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    It's 19-14. Novak is Nadal's pigeon :twisted:

    In all seriousness, you may be right that Novak's 2011 really dented Nadal's chances at taking the majors record.

    But you could also blame injuries for that as well. Nadal has had to withdraw from 3 majors since reaching his prime. WIM09, USO12 & AO13. He would've had good chances to win all of those.

    Not to mention, the AO11 semi where he injured his hamstring. Had that not happened, who knows, he might've won 5 in a row and got the Rafa slam as well. Hard to see Murray beating him and Novak hadn't yet gained all that confidence against him. Rafa would've been determined as all hell if he had been in the AO11 final.

    Too many what ifs. Reality is, Nadal owns a leading h2h against all 3 of his "big 4" counterparts. Federer only leads Novak, and it's interesting how all of Novak's recent wins don't mean anything, but Fed's earlier wins against pre prime Novak count for some reason...

    You can't use the age excuse for Fed when it comes to that fact though. Rafa has owned a leading h2h against Fed from the get go and with Murray, Fed has only ever lead the h2h after their very first match back in 2005 when Murray was in nappies. Since 2006, Murray has never been behind Federer in the h2h count.
     
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  18. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Hahaha, I'll be the number 1 fan of Federer if I was paid. I'll ditch the Buttpicker anytime........:twisted::mrgreen::lol:
     
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  19. monfed

    monfed Guest

    ROFL@peg leg. Murray could take out the bull in Wimby, and Fed could take out Muzz in the final. I'm down with that!


    LOL
    Djoker with his GOAT BH gonna save tennis again. Sounds good I'm in. :cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
    #69
  20. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Cmon tp, it's a bit of a no brainer who you'd root for in a Murray-Nadal match. :twisted:
     
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  21. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Murray winces, whines , hardly ever smiles on court . **** poor personality.

    It is better if Nadal wins their matches and I am positive he will win more matches than what he loses.

    I will be happy if the major winners are Tsonga, Delpo, Nadal in the days to come. Novak can and will win few majors.
     
    #71
  22. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    yeah big surprise this becomes about "nadal is so wonderful and unlucky with injuries" and "federer is a pigeon etc"

    Basically you want any reason to kiss fawn over Nadal, award him another 4 or 5 slams that he would've won if he was not injured (dspite the fact heonly has 1 AO, 1 USO and 2 W, so not that certain at those events) and moan about Federer.

    I don't get why it's hard to see Murray beating Nadal in 2011 when he's beaten twice in HC slams before? And doubtfulhe'd have beaten Djokovic anyway.

    Go back and read what I said. Djokovic's wins vs Federer more recently didn't hurt Federer because he was not likely to win the events anyway (unlike Nadal who did have a strong chance) This has nothing to do with giving more credit to Federer beating Djokovic early on than Djokovic beating Federer now, it's simply about what Djokovic stopped Federer from winning and at this point Federer was not going to win many of the events Djokovic beat him at. Unless you think Federer was going to beat Nadal at the USO in 2010, 2011, RG 2012? No didn't think so. Tsonga at AO2008, yeah Federer lost that one cos of Novak. AO 2011, would he have beaten Murray who beat him when he was in nappies?

    If you want to get into whether Federer has been a thorn in Djokovic's side, then ask yourself if you think Djokovic would have won the USO 2007, 2008, 2009, RG2011 and Wimby2012 without Federer? Then you can say who cost the other one more.

    Also pointless bringing Murray into this. Yes he's never been behind in the H2H more than one match.But this was about Djokovic, and Federer did used to own him. Djokovic turning that around has come at a time when Federer has not been a dominant player, so Djokovic owning him hasn't robbed him of anything. For most of the time Djokovic has turned the tables on Federer, Federer has been the number 2 or 3. In the last few years Nadal was the dominant player, and the one who really lost out to Djokovic.
     
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  23. monfed

    monfed Guest

    LOL I can't believe some folks here are suggesting that Djokovic has done more damage to Fed's career than Nadal's. Without Djokovic , Ralph would be sitting on 14 slams, with a more than likely shot of passing Fed's slam count. Djoker quite possibly ended Nadal's shot at passing the slam count.(Though it's still quite likely he will given that he bags free slams from RG.)
    Amazing straw clutching and deflection tactics on display by Nadal fans.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
    #73
  24. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    And Federer has never won a slam where the top four reached the semis.

    I see your point, but it isn't a stretch to say he had very good chances of winning those slams seeing how he had been doing in them recently.
     
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  25. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Cmon I know he pushes quite a bit but he has probably the best FS(nice easy service action), second best slice(probably the best since Fed's in terminal decline), decent net player(approaches the net far more than Djoker/Ralph,looks like a natural volleyer too) and is being aggressive with his FH. He's gotten quite clutch too. I think you might wanna reconsider. :)
     
    #75
  26. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Agree with this. Murray plays some solid tennis but the things already named above annoy me as well. Okay, Nadal has his own annoying quirks that we hear about more than enough on TTW but at least you can see in his eyes that he's a warrior. I don't know what I see when I look at Murray. A boring guy who looks pretty bored as well. As if he's just on the court to do his thing. If he wins it's cool, if he loses he doesn't care. He has enough money anyway. The AO 2013 final for example. Not for one second did it look like Murray actually wanted to win.
     
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  27. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    What about players that curse out their opponents mid-match?
     
    #77
  28. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    No, but whenever Nadal is not healthy a lot of people like to suggest he would have probably won them. He might have, but it's not really worth speculating. What people never seem to think about is possibly reaching all those finals was physically too much and leads to physical breakdowns in the first place, and So Nadal is bound to have losses the more tennis he plays and the more finals he reaches. It sort of becomes inevitable and not that inconceiveable that he loses to someone you wouldn't expect (like Ferrer)

    Personally I think this time out could be the best thing for Nadal, he's come back with a bang and probably needed time out mentally too.
     
    #78
  29. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    What? That is ridiculous.

    OP is pretty much saying that he is a glory-hunter. All that matters is that "Ralph" doesn't break Federer's record.

    Nadal's success has nothing to do with Federer. I really don't care if Nadal ends up with 25 slam titles; it doesn't threaten me at all. I will still be a Federer fan. Sure, he will no longer be called the greatest by the majority of tennis fans, but that does not matter. He would still be considered a legendary player who played possibly the smoothest tennis ever.

    Heck, even if Nadal wins 25 slam titles, as a Federer fan, you have the right to go to the former pro player section and bitterly downgrade Nadal's status all you want. Maybe you can derive inspiration from bitter Sampras fanboys like helloworld and say stuff like "Nadal needs at least 40 slams to pass Federer"
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
    #79
  30. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    So, The Order's signature is true huh. Helloworld really did say that huh.
    What a hoot. ..........:)
     
    #80
  31. TCG

    TCG Semi-Pro

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    I don't care even if Rafa dominates and comes close to Fed's slam count. I can't watch this pusher playing GS finals and ruining the sport. Hope Djoker gets to his 2.0 form and provide us some good matches.
     
    #81
  32. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Lol, right because his style is so much different from Rafa's :lol:
     
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  33. TCG

    TCG Semi-Pro

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    Atleast he brings some excitement to the game unlike Murray who pushes all the way. Djoker-Rafa finals are much better than Murray-Rafa, Murray-Djoker finals.
     
    #83
  34. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Wait are you saying that Murray's style is similar to Nadal's? Because that's completely wrong, dude. Not even close. They are both baseliners.. that's about the only thing I can think of that they have in common.
     
    #84
  35. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ooooh this is bloopers on me for not reading your post correctly. Your first couple sentences make it sound like you're still talking about Rafa and saying he's a pusher and Djokovic isn't.
     
    #85
  36. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    fed would've easily beaten murray in AO 2011 ...

    USO 2011 also he'd have a good shot .....

    AO 2008 , he'd have a good shot, but that's no certainty... tsonga was in excellent form, though it did come down a bit in the finals ...
     
    #86
  37. monfed

    monfed Guest

    LOL Atleast I'm 100% sure of whose side I'm on. I guess transitioning from a Sampras to a Federer fan hasn't been too easy on you but I give you an A for effort.
     
    #87
  38. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    well I think he would have beaten Murray in 2011AO. USO 2011 I don't know, he was playing well (unlike the previous year) but vs Nadal, could he keep his level up? It did drop in that Djokovic match.

    I think AO 2008 would have been almost nailed on. But i could be wrong of course
     
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  39. monfed

    monfed Guest

    I think had Fed reached the AO 08 final, he would've beaten Tsonga. Let's face it, prime Fed ate attacking players for breakfast. AO 2011 he may have beaten Murray in the final since Murray had no self belief back then.
     
    #89
  40. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    well, I'd give federer a near sure-shot win vs murray @ AO 2011 given murray's form ....murray struggled vs dolgo, ferrer and got destroyed by novak ... all 3 sets of fed-novak OTOH were competitive ....

    not that much of a sure-shot win in AO 2008 where tsonga was just on-fire .....he just destroyed nadal in the semi .... nadal's worst slam loss by far IMO ... played well in the finals as well ... boils down to how much nervous tsonga would feel vs federer ..

    USO 2011, yeah, form did dip vs djoker, but was still better than rafa's in that USO ....so yeah, I do think he'd have a good shot ...
     
    #90
  41. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    federer had mono at that AO ....

    lost 9 out of 10 games vs djoker from 5-3 up in the 1st to 5-7, 1-5 down in the 2nd .....

    had gone 5 sets vs tipsarevic in 3R ( 10-8 in the 5th ) and tsonga was playing clearly better than tipsy ...

    fed is easily the best player at handling attacking players in the open era IMO, but in his AO 2008 form , he wouldn't have it easy vs tsonga in AO 2008 form ....

    even at his peak, with tsonga in AO 2008 form, he'd have to play very well to win it, like he did vs roddick at USO 2007 or wimbledon 2004 ....
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
    #91
  42. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Djokovic is like 10 times more attacking than Nadal. Djokovic doesn't return from 10 feet behind the baseline and resort to only retrieving when he's down in a match. Have you seen Djokovic play Federer? They are both hugging the baseline and not willing to give up ground,this is why their matches are so intense and the result is a coin-flip. I dare Ralph to play like that against Federer, he won't cause he'd rather moonball from 10 feet behind the baseline,the chicken is too scared to lose.
     
    #92
  43. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal doesn't take the ball as early as Djokovic, and does return farther back. This has nothing to do with how aggressive he is though. He needs more time to be AS aggressive off of a return, but he tries to be aggressive just as much as Novak does. The percentage of time they spend playing offense/defense is very close. In the past 2 tournaments Rafa played, he's actually being more offensive/trying to end points quicker than Novak is.
     
    #93
  44. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks.

    I give you an A+ for being an irrational zealot.
     
    #94
  45. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Yep, and I bet you wouldn't be able to even get a racket on one of those so-called moonballs, either.

    And for education purposes, here is a video of actual moonballing since you don't seem to know the difference between topspin and a moonball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R0Jmi739lvM#t=12s
     
    #95
  46. monfed

    monfed Guest

    LMAO Clarky! I honestly hadn't seen that. That is nuts, thanks for the link. :lol:
     
    #96
  47. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    #97
  48. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    It's suggested about the slams where he would have had more than a good chance at winning them. No one is saying he would have won the AO in 2006.

    Plus he could have lost to someone else if he'd played someone else in those finals he lost against Djokovic.
     
    #98
  49. Elite

    Elite Semi-Pro

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    I stopped reading after you said Djokovic's form was "horrid".
     
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  50. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Actually I have heard people say that haha. But most people don't say that true. But Nadal winning any of those slams while possible and, yes he had a good chance,there's just as much chance he wouldn't. So I don't see the point in speculating when he was 7 matches away from each title.

    He could have lost to other people in 2011/2012 but i think he would have been the heavy favourite to win. I don't see him losing to Tsonga at Wimbledon. Federer at the US Open, if Federer played brilliantly with rare confidence vs Nadal in a slam final then ok. Murray in 2012 perhaps but I think Nadal was so determined to win and just wanted it too bad in the end. But he faced Djokovic, and it was him that denied him winning those titles at the final hurdle. So i would say Djokovic has hurt Nadal more than he's hurt Federer.
     

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