federer modeled his serve from borg, becker or sampras?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by taurussable, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    Isn't the high elbow typical for a kick serve?

    you will rotate less and probably use a stronger internal rotation of the arm to generate the spin.
     
    #51
  2. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    It just looks like it'll hurt, that's where I'm coming from.
     
    #52
  3. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Professional

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    Does Sampras get to a similar high elbow position for his slice serve?

    All of Sampras' tosses seem to be approximately over his head or to the left. He doesn't seem to toss to the two o'clock position that many players use for their slice serve.

    I can't find a video comparing Sampras' flat, kick and slice serve motions.
    They all look similar... Maybe Sampras uses more of a "Topspin/Slice" rather than a traditional slice.
     
    #53
  4. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    regarding "over his head and to his left"


    The following picture shows his contact point is not exactly above his head. The contact point is a little to right of his head, about inline with his right shoulder.

    [​IMG]
     
    #54
  5. psv255

    psv255 Professional

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    The toss is judged relative to the head when the server has only let go of the ball. Sampras already moved his head and torso out of the way in the picture, more left, so he still gets the hitting zone up and to the right although his toss is more left than most.
     
    #55
  6. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    Sampras toss seems a typical high Jtoss. I don't think his toss is that to the left compared with other J tossers.
     
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  7. psv255

    psv255 Professional

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    Yeah looking at that particular video, you're right, it looks like right side all the way. It seemed to me that because his shoulders cartwheel more vertically than most, he would naturally need a more central/leftward toss location. Maybe it's a feel thing vs. what's actually happening.
     
    #57
  8. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    +1 on this. in another word, "steeper shoulder tilt" at contact.
     
    #58
  9. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Professional

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    Is that a Sampras first or second serve?
     
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  10. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

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    Imo the more you pronate, the higher the elbow...
     
    #60
  11. KineticChain

    KineticChain Professional

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    This is the correct question.
     
    #61
  12. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    imo, this was a first serve.
     
    #62
  13. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Professional

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    If the reference point is taken from his head position at the start of the service motion, the contact point appears to be above his head, i.e., ~12 o'clock.

    When server is said to be "contacting at 12 o'clock", it is with respective to the head at the starting position and not to the position of the head after the toss is released and the head position tilts away.

    I believe this is the standard convention that is used when describing "12 o'clock (above the head)" contact points... Perhaps others can confirm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
    #63
  14. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I've always considered 12 o'clock to mean above the head when the server is in the trophy position. In other words, if the server stops his motion in the trophy, the ball will land on his head or directly in front of his head. Since the toss arcs from right to left, it will still be slightly to the right of the head when the server contacts the ball.
     
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