Federer must make the switch or he will descend even more

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by The Baseline, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. PrimeChoice

    PrimeChoice New User

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    Why does this thread have 3 stars beside it?
     
  2. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    Fed has 2,265 more atp points than the guy below him. The young kids with big rackets in the top 20 are struggling to break 2000 atp points, and Fed has over 10,000. There's nothing wrong with Federer's performance.
     
  3. gplracer

    gplracer Professional

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    Federer does shank balls. He shanks them because he takes so many ball early and on the rise. Plus the amount of spin that he and the other players put on the ball today makes it really difficult. It does not have to do with his racket. I bet if he stood as far back as Rafa he would not shank as many balls. Of course then he would play as well either. It is not his game style.
     
  4. gplracer

    gplracer Professional

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    BTW it is interesting that the two guys with the most grandslam titles had 85 and 90 inch rackets.... That said I love my 90. I played with the prostaff 85 growing up and in college. The 90 reminds me of the rackets I grew up with. Although I probably find it easier to get pace on the ball with my 95. It just feels more sloppy and more like a hammer.
     
  5. Xizel

    Xizel Professional

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    Bigger racquets didn't have exposure till recently. Then again, we can look at Rafa and Agassi. Very successful tweeners, and extremely powerful ones at that.
     
  6. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    The majority of Federers errors on not on ball hit into the net, they are on balls hit long and some of those shot land two feet or more long. Yeah, give him 5 more square inches and he will hit the ball out by another 5 square feet.
     
  7. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    People forget that Fed has twin girls and believe it or not instead of being a deadbeat Dad, he probably spends alot time with them which no doubt takes time away from his tennis. It may not seem like family could have an impact but that would depend on the individual.
     
  8. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Who is this "Federer" guy? Never heard of him, is he a doubles specialist?
     
  9. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    No, he is a ball boy in the French Cameroon.
     
  10. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Well if he is French then shouldn't he be using a Babolat racket?
     
  11. josesrv

    josesrv New User

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    Federer racquet size

    Without doubt Federer is an amazing player, what can I say! I´m his fan. He is very used to use 90 Wilson heads, so it is difficult to see him changing it for other size. Anyway, as tennis as other sport disciplines continue to improve, I don´t see so improbable to switch to other design (even if it has the same head size) Think of Djokovic-Federer London Final 2012, I saw Federer surpassed on his backhand side by Djokovic. Would it be the power of Djokovic´s Head racquet? Somethings needs to be adjusted there, and I think is the racquet design, not Federer ability in this case. I think he needs to upgrade the 2012 Wilson for something new regarding more power and retaining control (a new Wilson Steam but with 90 or 95 head?)
     
  12. lendlmac

    lendlmac Rookie

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    I feel bad for Fedeer...like Lendl in 1994, he was 34 alread and clalld it quits... Lendl won less tournaments in his 30's...and Federer is feeling it..and needs to upgrade fast! to compete with Wrawinka, Dimitrov and Dolgopolov!
     
  13. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

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    Of course somebody had to bump this thread
     
  14. blantonreed

    blantonreed Rookie

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    lendlmac found all three old threads and pretty much posted the same thing in each of them...
     
  15. nn

    nn Hall of Fame

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    I don't care if Roger change the racquet and head size but Sampras & Jim Courier said that they miss the trick by not trying bigger head size at the end of career (when bigger head size were making entry into tennis world)
     
  16. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I feel bad for Djokovic. He needs to upgrade to a 110 sq. in. racquet fast to compete with young guys like Dimitrov and old has beens like Haas! :???:
     
  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    At this point, if Fed wants to hang in there for a couple of more years, racket change is a must.
     
  18. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Bigger head sizes made their entry into the tennis world before Sampras and Courier even started playing tennis as juniors. Yet, they both beat the pants off of all of those pros that used the bigger racquets on the pro tour.

    Even Agassi's huge 107 sq. in. oversize racquet was not big enough to beat Sampras at all the Wimbledons nor the US Opens.
     
  19. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yet, Agassi switched to a SMALLER racquet in his early 30's which extended his career.
     
  20. snr

    snr Rookie

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    Breakpoint, I admit to not being sure, but wasn't Agassi using an oversize and moved to a mid plus type??
     
  21. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, he did. He went from a 107 to a 102.
     
  22. big ted

    big ted Hall of Fame

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    didnt federer try a larger head in a davis cup match and do poorly? he also said he'd like to switch but he doesnt have any off time to get used to a larger head
     
  23. lidoazndiabloboi

    lidoazndiabloboi Semi-Pro

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    which racket was the 102 that Agassi used?
    thanks
     
  24. nn

    nn Hall of Fame

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    I am not talking about timing of big and small head size but when they were end of career they felt bigger head size would have helped.

    They realized it after playing on senior tour with poly & bigger head. Sampras mentioned in the interview (I am not going to dig the reference). Again not many up coming pro use 90 head size for reason.
     
  25. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, he did. He tried a 95 during that match and lost the 1st set to some guy I've never heard of who was ranked outside of the top 100 (if not the top 200). He then switched back to his 90 and spanked him for the rest of the match.
     
  26. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Custom Head racquet. He even tried a retail Head Instinct 100 sq. in. racquet, which he bought himself at a local pro shop at one point.
     
  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    And how do they know a smaller head size wouldn't have helped even more? The point is, you can second guess your choices all you want. If they had switched to a bigger headsize, how do you know they wouldn't have regretted not staying with their smaller racquet?

    Guess what? Sampras, Courier, Lendl, McEnroe, Edberg, etc. - they all played better with their smaller racquets than they do now with their bigger racquets. :)
     
  28. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I think Fed is reading this and believing BP, that is why he is not winning any more
     
  29. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, that must be it. Age and burn out must have nothing to do with it. :???:
     
  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Whatever. He can keep believing that, or he can improve. It is up to him. Rackets are freely available and he has enough bench time now to try them out.
     
  31. bjsnider

    bjsnider Professional

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    Pretty easily falsifiable. They were also all younger, when they were playing with the smaller sticks, than they are now.
     
  32. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Thanks a heap for spoiling the result.

    You should have learned the match-spoiler rules by now tool.
     
  33. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Every clear picture of that match posted on this forum showed he likely didn't change racquets in that match. Some even claimed proof because the frame appeared to have more strings. When counted it showed nothing different.

    This was one of the more Lock Ness Monster-ey of Federer stories. A myth which came about mostly because the TV footage of the match zoomed in on a Wilson 95 frame courtside (along with a ball) which was there for TV purposes (mentioned here).

    In fact, the only suggestion that he he used a 95 for the first set, which he lost, before switching to his 90 was conjured up by you right here.

    Edit: and here's the post counting the strings in the photos of frames posted in that thread which confirms that they have the same number of mains. Well, at least to those who can count.

    Since that thread, by the way, nothing said by Zapvor's famed insider at Wilson has come true. Federer is still using the same frame almost two years later. Since that time he's won another major, gained another 20-odd weeks at #1, won the WTF, bagelled both Nadal and Djokovic and collected a number of M1000 titles to boot. Even better, his Wilson rep supposedly claimed Del Potro was getting a new stick. His source couldn't have been more wrong - not only has he not, he hasn't even updated to a current paint job.

    I guess shank mode 2011 Federer turned out all right in the end.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  34. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Exactly! It has nothing to do with their racquets. It has to do with their age. Even the biggest granny stick is not going to make Jimmy Connors into the #1 player in the world again.
     
  35. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    “I’ve tried bigger,” Federer said. “The problem is we don’t have enough time to do racket testing, you know? I’m always talking to Wilson about: ‘What else do you have? What else can we test?’ And who knows? Maybe down the road, I’ll change again.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/sports/tennis/20iht-SRWIRACKET20.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    So he's tried bigger racquets but decided that his 90 was still the best racquet for him right now. Case closed.
     
  36. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    So, basically, talk of him using the 95 at Davis Cup was a myth.

    It's obvious he's tried bigger racquets. He probably has a day, maybe two, each year when he tries every new Wilson frame in development.
     
  37. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Why do you say that? Maybe the only chance he had time to test a bigger racquet was during the 1st set of that Davis Cup match? Since it was against such a low ranked player, he knew he could always switch back to his 90 in a best of 5 match if he lost the 1st set, which is exactly what he did. I still believe he used a bigger racquet during the 1st set of that Davis Cup match.

    There were also videos on YouTube showing him practicing with definitely a bigger racquet.
     
  38. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Because the evidence of it that was proffered was either too low quality to be of any use and the corresponding claims regarding to strings were debunked easily. What started out with YOU claiming it looked like he was using it - and posting corresponding photos - is all the evidence we've had on the board. Yet, incredibly, 18 months later the story is more legit because he's still yet to change frames? The mind boggles.

    Notwithstanding the entire notion came about because of the TV using the non-Federer 95 frame by the court for art effect.

    Do you actually believe this? Remove yourself from the situation and read what you wrote again. Do you seriously think it stacks up all things considered?

    We're talking about a guy who is famously particular about his racquet specifications. Again, do you seriously believe this folly?

    Got the link? :cool:
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  39. fullpolyserve&volley

    fullpolyserve&volley New User

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    Actually guys. He's using an 88 square inch (There's not much difference bt that and a 90 of course). But at the end of the day, his competition are using newer and more updated toys to help out with their strokes. He should probably update too. Maybe a different string setup at least?
     
  40. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, I do. He admitted himself in that linked interview in the New York Times that he's tried bigger racquets and is always pushing Wilson to make new racquets for him to test.

    They were playing against Portugal. I think he was certain enough that they would beat Portugal in the DC to gamble the 1st set of his 1st match by using a bigger racquet. You can never tell how a racquet will perform until you use it in actual competition. Practicing with it doesn't give you the whole story. Besides, it isn't like his entire game falls apart just because he's using a slightly bigger racquet. I'm sure he practiced with it quite a bit before his DC match.
     
  41. DownTheLineWith90

    DownTheLineWith90 Rookie

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    I love how this thread was reborn after Fed lost to Kei by shanking a sh.load of backhands
     
  42. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    You're taking his admission that he tried new frames - which is a no-brainer as I've said previously - and extrapolating a conclusion from it that it somehow supports your opinion he played with a 95sq in frame during a match.

    I asked whether you genuinely believe what you said because it's such a ludicrous failure of logic, practical sense, nor consistent with the available evidence - or rather lack of it.

    No way. Not in a real match. Any player worth his salt has more respect for his opponents than that.

    Rubbish. These guys can tell exactly how they will perform with the types and amount of practice they do. For him to have tried a frame seriously he would go through weeks of demoing balance and string set ups etc - probably many dozens of iterations - and fine-tuning it to the nth before he'd ever set foot on a match court with it.

    Notwithstanding Federer himself has said he was happy with what he was using when asked about changing frames. Why on earth would he move from something he was happy with to something unknown and then test it in a real match? That's the sort of thing teenage hacks do, not perfectionists.
     
  43. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    This thread again? Lol.
     
  44. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Based upon your logic, maybe he played awesome with the 95 during practice, which was enough for him to try it during a one-sided DC match?

    How do you know he didn't?

    And I've tested many racquets in which I played terrible with it during practice but then won every match I used it in, and also racquets which were great during practice but I couldn't win a match with it to save my life. I'm sure every tennis player has had the same experience, yes including Federer.

    How do you know it was "unknown"? Maybe he had been testing it for weeks or months? He said himself during that NYT interview that he's always asking Wilson to give him new racquets to test. Again:

    “I’ve tried bigger,” Federer said. “The problem is we don’t have enough time to do racket testing, you know? I’m always talking to Wilson about: ‘What else do you have? What else can we test?’ And who knows? Maybe down the road, I’ll change again.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/sports/tennis/20iht-SRWIRACKET20.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Sounds to me like he's totally open to changing.
     
  45. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    For sure. Post any evidence you have whatsoever that he did. Go on, find that video or those photos. I challenge you to come up with one ounce of credible evidence. Surely after 18 months there would be some out there that is better than some dunce's video clip of a non-Federer frame courtside or your photos and inability to count how many main strings the frame had.

    I don't, but ample, credible, evidence supports the opposite.

    Are you for real? Seriously?

    I don't, you're right. But on this occasion he finished Wimbledon on 30 June and played his first match in Davis Cup 8 days later on 8 July. It takes a day or two to get out of London back to home to recover, and another day to get to Portugal. Let's say there's 5 days left. He then has practice on a couple of those days.

    So yeah, I know he didn't practice with a 95 frame before the Davis Cup for a couple of weeks or months because I have access to the internet.

    I see what you're on about. You come from the school of thought that if you keep saying the same thing over it will somehow gain in credibility - as if people are so inept in their thought process as to only vaguely remember stuff they read and it slowly becomes more and more entrenched as the truth.

    You suggested some of the theories we're talking about now 18 months ago, based on basically nothing. How you could be still defending it now, especially when to-date nothing has come true, is clown level stuff.

    Time to post any pics/vids which support your version or give up this folly.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  46. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    What do the main strings have anything to do with it? A 95 can have any number of main strings. Heck, the PS 85 and PS 95 have the exact same numbers of mains and crosses and they have a 10 sq. in. difference in head size.

    Where is this evidence that you speak of???

    Yes, I am. Practice is not nearly the same as actual real matches. EVERY tennis player knows that. That's why they say that a tennis player is not match tough yet after a hiatus even though they practiced a lot and played lots of practice matches during their hiatus. You play differently during real matches that matter.

    Why is it an affront to your religion that Federer would consider switching?

    Well, obviously Federer is open to switching or else why would he keep asking Wilson for new racquets to test and admit that he may switch again in the future? If he was 100% happy and satisfied with his current racquet, he wouldn't have said these things, would he?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  47. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Stop taking the Mickey. You posted in that previous thread clearly trying to bolster the argument by saying the frame had more strings in it. When it was shown, clearly to not be the case using the photo YOU posted, you simply replied "Um..you missed a couple of strings there."

    After that you didn't reply on that topic again - I wouldn't have either if I'd been shown to have an inability to count to 16.

    You also claimed about the same photo "Note the larger head and the thinner hoop" (here), a claim that was met with a chorus of crickets supporting your assessment.

    Every photo of him playing tennis published since that date. I imagine there are now in the hundreds of thousands of them.

    Irrelevant. You're running out of straws to clutch.

    It is not. It is an affront to mature debate that you would continually post utter tripe on this topic. The only evidence ever offered in favour of your story was either made up, videos posted in error by someone else or poor analysis of photos (such as the string mis-counting post).

    Well, it is part of his job as a professional athlete to keep his options open and also part of his relationship with Wilson to talk the good public talk.

    This is a false conclusion based on poor logic, the sort of logic which would get laughed at in any discussion on causality or reasoning. There are multiple reasons for him to say what he did - including his obligations to Wilson or an ongoing effort to find the best racquet for him.

    Go on, post any of those videos or photos. I challenge you to put you money where your mouth is. I know you wont - you'll just come here and try to dissect irrelevant minutiae of terminology and offer more pointless anecdotal comparisons in order to delay the obvious.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  48. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Huh? Wilson is trying to sell his CURRENT racquet and is making millions doing so. Why would they want Federer to say that he wants to test other racquets and always asking Wilson what else they have? That clearly would indicate to customers that Federer thinks his current racquet is not the best and that he thinks there must be something else out there that's better. That would be illogical.

    You can go ahead and waste your time trying to find these videos again. I saw them and so did lots of other people on this board. He was practicing with Annacone standing near him and he was using a bigger racquet. 100% definite. No doubt whatsoever. Having used the PS 6.0 95 for many years and now the nCode/K90 for many years, I know what a bigger racquet looks like. And why should it be surprising? He said himself that he's tried bigger racquets.
     
  49. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    he should play with whatever he feels like. he has the tennis to beat anyone on tour. it's just a matter of motivation, keeping healthy and having the right game plan... the results will come, or they won't.
     
  50. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    The prospect of a new model coming out has pretty obvious marketing implications. It's why they relaunch the Federer frame each few years with, realistically, almost insignificant functional changes.

    Even the most clueless fool knows that the "best" racquet is a very vague notion which varies greatly from person to person.

    Translation: you can't even back up what you claim and now refuse to even try, attempting instead to make out like I need to find your evidence for you.

    Annacone was standing near him? You mean the guy who travels with him 20+ weeks of the year? Why didn't you say so earlier? I believe every word of it now... :lol:

    You have an intuition about racquets so good yet the evidence we have shows you aren't even capable of analysing photos you posted yourself.

    You made the claims so it's up to you to find the videos and/or photos. Either that or you're just a further laughing stock on this topic. Not a single claim you've made about him using a 95 in the first set of the 2011 Davis Cup meet can be verified, or has even a moderate level of evidence, by anyone other than you.

    I notice you didn't bother responding to the "thinner hoop" claims, nor the limited opportunities Federer would have had to demo new frames in the couple of days between Wimbledon and Davis Cup in 2011. You had your arse handed to you on a plate with those two so I'm not surprised at all you didn't bother responding to them.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013

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