Federer must make the switch or he will descend even more

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by The Baseline, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. Backhanded Compliment

    Backhanded Compliment Hall of Fame

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    That's the thing with being a successful professional... it means you rarely have time to try out new things that are at the core of your game. I mean I love hitting with mids too... I can/have easilly beat players that I am marginally better than with one but it's those who are just or good or better that I require my mid plus... Though there are days even a big bubba cant help me!

    Realistically Fed will have more days when he is sub par as he gets older so maybe he will have the time to switch if he gets knocked out of wimby before the quarters... otherwise it is only going to happen after the WTF's if ever.

    I believe that part of the reason Connors stayed in it so long was his willingness to switch frames (and his incredible drive to compete).
     
  2. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    A little..., but the problem is not only the headsize... it's the specs of his racket !

    He needs to go close to Joker, Dimitrov or Nadal specs.
    For the nowadays playing style(baseline), it's the ideal thing to use on the tour.
    Roger no longer play an all-round-game like in the past, where his racket/specs are great to do it.

    Before RG someone told this to him... he just didn't care, someone even took a racket with different specs for him to try ... the final result you/he will see on the grass... he will not make it with this actual racket.
     
  3. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Hey wait a minute! That is critical info! More details please.
     
  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I can't bear the suspense! Need to know right away.
     
  5. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    Since he tested the 93" (2 or 3 years ago), that he's being told that he must change his racket specs.
    In training he tryied different specs even with the 90", but he doesn't wanna make the change.
    This is all I know, from a pro tour player close to him...
     
  6. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    So what is going to be revealed at Wimby?
     
  7. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    About what ?

    I just said that with his actual specs/racket he will not win Wimbledon.
    BUT I hope that I am wrong about it...
     
  8. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    I dont think a switch in racquet will help him.
     
  9. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    Everyone have the right to have his own opinion about it...

    But here, I am talking about pro players and pro coaches opinions, that talked to him about this subject...
     
  10. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Who am I to tell him what to do. But I would like him to see him try out his light setup and up the tension to 25 kgs... Perhaps he has.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  11. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Dude, he's getting older. It's not the racquet. If switching to bigger racquets really helped older people play better, why is it that you don't see 50 year-olds winning Grand Slams using 120 sq. in. racquets? :???:
     
  12. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    You mean when Sampras said that he's glad he stuck with his trusty PS 85 which won him 14 Slams? OK, got it!
     
  13. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Really? Is that why Connors kept going back to his trusty T-2000 after trying other frames? Don't you recall him playing with the PS 85 for a couple of tournaments and then returning to his T-2000? The only reason he ever switched from the T-2000 was that Wilson stopped making them years ago and he couldn't get any more. He was so desperate that at one point he even pleaded with the public to sell him any T-2000s that they were no longer using.
     
  14. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I don't understand why so many people here don't understand this simple statement. It's not the racquet! It's his age. How a quarter-billionaire family man at his age remains motivated to keep grinding away and winning on the tour is beyond me. Sampras was more obsessed with winning than anyone and even he hung it up a year younger than Federer is now.
     
  15. wangs78

    wangs78 Hall of Fame

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    BP - no offense but your comment is pure exaggeration. A move from the 90 to a 95 will definitely add more power. I usually play with a 6.1 95 and occasionally will play with the 85 for fun and the difference in power is very noticeable.

    A better answer is that Fed's issue is more about being able to handle the power of his opponents and that has to do with his agility, speed more so than his racquet. And switching to a bigger racquet could cause him to lose some of the finesse and control and negate the benefit of more power. Who really knows. If I were Fed I would experiment a little bit. You never know - especially when Sampras regrets not switching.
     
  16. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    what % of people on these boards do you think play at all or at least at a level where they would appreciate what is happening when the ball is moving at a solid clip? Or have an engineering background like you and I?
     
  17. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Pretty hard for Fed to dial in new equipment after all these years......

    I do think he should maybe mix it up a bit and toss in some occasional junk esp against the biggest hitters.

    Still has plenty of game IMO.
     
  18. ShahofTennis

    ShahofTennis Professional

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    Everyone being endorsed to sell a racquet is moving product for Racquet manufacturers. Federer is currently the only marketable force behind a 90 square inch frame, and he's paid in accordance to his value in the market. He could switch to bigger head size right now if he wanted to, but at the end of the day money's doing the talking. Money says: "Stick with the 90 because you're at the heart of its market."
     
  19. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    So let me get this straight, he needs a racket with more power and then his shots will be better?
    :confused: :shock:

    If that is the case one ought to recommend:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Gamma_RZR_Bubba_Racquets/descpageRCGAMMA-BUBBA.html
    :rolleyes:
     
  20. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    Didn't Sampras also say that if he would've switched to a bigger head size later on in his career it would have helped/extended his career??

    Also, pros switch rackets in the off season all the time. Why is it, when the WTFs are in early November, that Fed cant devote 3-4 weeks to getting used to a bigger size head. Then he can play an exo or two, or a warmup tournament to get further acclimated.

    I think he's being stubborn, just like Sampras was.

    10 yrs from now, when he's playing exos, we'll see him with a blacked out Babolat as well, maybe.
     
  21. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    I do find it interesting how BreakPoint argues in this thread that Federer changing racquets will NOT help him, as its not about the frame, its about his age, but yet in this thread:

    he blames the decline of today's game on modern frames, implying that because of these new frames, players no longer need point construction as they can just smack winners from anywhere on the court.

    He also argues that if you gave Federer, Nadal & Djokovic wood racquets, that Fed would win every time.

    So, by inference, give Federer a modern frame, and he should also be able to win every time, correct?
     
  22. qwertre

    qwertre Rookie

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    Exactly what I just noticed. Break Point, is it the equipment, or is it the players? Is Fed just getting old, as you say in this thread, or would he instantly be improved by a larger head size, as you say in the McEnroe-Martina thread?
     
  23. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Or it could have killed his career even earlier. It's all just speculation. It's like saying if I would have just bought a lottery ticket last week, I would have won $100 million. :)
     
  24. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Um....no. I guess you don't understand the difference between types of racquets and style of play? Federer's style of play is better suited for wood racquets than either Nadal's or Djokovic's. It's as simple as that. Federer moving to a bigger racquet is not going to help his style of play very much, while Nadal and Djokovic moving down to 65 sq. in. wood racquets will hurt their games much more than it would hurt Federer's game.
     
  25. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Where in that thread did I say that Federer's game would be instantly improved by a larger head size? :confused: Please show me.

    Federer has been using his current racquet for a long time and has been very successful with it. You do understand the difference between the greatest player ever and a typical 3.5 hacker, right?
     
  26. qwertre

    qwertre Rookie

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    Pardon me, but I wasn't directly quoting you. I was paraphrasing your general point, which was that larger head sizes are improving players' games, making them (this is a direct quote) "too good." Using logic, it then follows that Federer would be similarly improved. Then, in this thread, you argue that Federer's game would not be improved at all? :confused::confused::confused:

    And, for the record, here are some quotes from you.

    me:
    Originally Posted by qwertre
    There is no racket that would allow the pros to hit a winner on every stroke or to never miss a shot!

    You: compared to a 65 sq. in. wood racquet strung with gut, a modern 100 sq. in. racquet strung with poly does exactly that (in the hands of a pro, of course).


    You: Now you've got it!

    The pros are way too good with today's modern racquets and poly strings. We want them to play worse!

    For context, BreakPoint uses "modern racquets" to refer to large head size, non-wood rackets.

    So why would BreakPoint say that "a modern 100 sq. in racquet strung with poly (would allow the pros to hit a winner on every stroke or to never miss a shot)" then say that Fed switching rackets wouldn't help him?!?!?!?!
     
  27. qwertre

    qwertre Rookie

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    You argue with a Sampras quote

    "You mean when Sampras said that he's glad he stuck with his trusty PS 85 which won him 14 Slams? OK, got it!"

    Then when someone else uses the opposite Sampras quote

    "Didn't Sampras also say that if he would've switched to a bigger head size later on in his career it would have helped/extended his career??"

    You say that it's all just speculation?

    "Or it could have killed his career even earlier. It's all just speculation. It's like saying if I would have just bought a lottery ticket last week, I would have won $100 million."


    You've got to be trolling me! There is no way you can use something as support in your argument, then discredit the opponent's counter-argument (which is essentially the same as yours) on the exact same page! That would be like you saying that when Player A says they were sick and lost because of it, it's true, and when Player B does the same, you say they're lying! Oh, wait...
     
  28. asifallasleep

    asifallasleep Hall of Fame

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    Actually he needs to go back to his trusty K90 or if he really wants to improve go to the PS85!!!! Oh yeah, now we're talking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  29. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    Yes, oh brilliant one, I have absolutely no knowledge of the game of tennis and it's equipment. Compared to you I am a mere newbie, and hereby state that everything BreakPoint says is 100% correct and should be implemented immediately by the ATP. :rolleyes:
     
  30. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Someone mentioned the golf comparison:

    Tennis could create something to emulate the PGA's 'Iron Byron' - robot that hits the ball the same every time; then draw a line in the sand for initial velocity and spin and not allow the manufacturers of rackets or strings go over it - if they want their equipment used in ATP/ITF/USTA (and other countries) sanctioned events. Would be tough (you'd have to have a baseline racket and ball to test the strings; baseline string and ball to test the rackets, etc...); I'm sure the manufacturers would complain - might even threaten some lawsuits, but I think they could work out the differences that would keep things from spiraling out of control as they are now. Otherwise, when will it stop? When linespeople and ballkids are getting injured?
     
  31. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Um...no. Would a forehand lesson by your local teaching pro benefit Federer as much as it would benefit a 3.5 hacker? There's your answer. In fact, a forehand lesson from your local teaching pro may make Federer's forehand WORSE, just like switching to a bigger racquet may make Federer's game worse.

    Because Federer's problem is not his racquet. It's his aging body and burn out from playing on tour for so long. The fact that he's accomplished as much as he has with his current racquet is proof that his racquet is not the problem. During his prime, Federer could hit more winners with his current racquet than most pros could using any size racquet. The pros that benefit most from 100 sq in. racquets are those who have been using 100 sq. in. racquets for many years (e.g., Nadal). The pros that benefit most from 90 sq in. racquets are those who have been using 90 sq. in. racquets for many years (e.g., Federer).
     
  32. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    The point is that it's all pure speculation. The grass is always greener on the other side. You can regret what you DIDN'T do as much as you can regret what you DID do.
     
  33. Dear Djordje

    Dear Djordje Rookie

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    Ferrer needs to switch to Aero Pro to better his career.
     
  34. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Federer should switch to a 100 square inch head-size . . .

    . . . and play exactly the same, just to prove almost everyone wrong.
     
  35. qwertre

    qwertre Rookie

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    If you want to completely invalidate your point from the other thread, that's ok, but don't try to pretend that you're not arguing with yourself here. In the other thread, your entire point is that new racket technology is making all pros "too good." You mention nothing about 3.5 hackers. You state that "the pros" are all being helped by modern equipment and larger head sizes. You mention no Federer exception, you don't say anything about only certain pros benefiting. You say all of them do, and then in this thread you argue the complete opposite.
     
  36. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I'm NOT invalidating my point from the other thread at all. I'm being completely consistent. Federer is ALSO using a larger head size. Hold up a Tour 90 to a 65 sq. in. wood racquet and you will see a HUGE difference. So, yes, Federer is benefiting from a larger head size, just not as much as Nadal is benefiting from an even larger head size. Would Federer benefit from Nadal's 100 sq. in. racquet? No, because he's been using 90 sq. in. and smaller racquets his entire life so that's what he's used to, and the fact that he has achieved so much with his 90 sq. in. racquet is proof that his racquet is not the problem.

    I am with McEnroe and Navratilova in wanting ALL pros go back to using 65 sq. in. wood racquets. No more of these ridiculous 90-100 or bigger graphite racquets. I know what would happen if they mandated this - Federer would win a lot more and Nadal would lose a lot more. :)
     
  37. DBrickshaw

    DBrickshaw New User

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    maybe he should switch to a smaller head size to get more penetration on his shots so he can end points quicker. a larger head would make his shots loopy and undamaging.

    or he could just use what hes used to. he's still pretty dang good
     
  38. DownTheLineWith90

    DownTheLineWith90 Rookie

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    Fed once said "I don't care about unforced errors."
    I doubt he'd sacrifice the touch and stability of the 90 for less shanks and unforced errors.
    He's had too much success already with the same frame.
    Ask delpo about racket suspicion..
     
  39. qwertre

    qwertre Rookie

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    So the difference between a 65 and a 90 makes a huge difference, but 90 to 100 won't change anything?

    P.S. I agree with you. Fed changing racket sizes won't help one bit. I just don't like the inconsistencies in your arguments.
     
  40. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Did you not read my post? Changing from a 90 to a 100 WILL make a difference. It will most likely make Federer's game WORSE because he is so used to 90 and smaller racquets. And Nadal changing from his 100 to a 90 will make a huge difference and will definitely make his game worse because he is so used to his 100.

    Oh, and a 90 is almost 40% bigger than a 65, while a 100 is only a bit more than 10% bigger than a 90. That's a significant difference between the two.
     
  41. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    ^^ yes, BUT the area of a racquet face is a function of the longitudinal and transverse radii SQUARED. This means the differences in string lengths for larger racquets will be proportionally much less than for smaller racquets when going from a racquet with surface area A to one of surface area B.
     
  42. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    That'll never happen, but changing the strings could, IOW get rid of the poly, which would bring more net play imo.:|
     
  43. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    So when is the - "Ferrer must make the switch or he will descend even more"- thread going to appear? :lol: LOL

    I say Ferrer must switch to a 120 sq. in. racquet immediately or else his career is over! :)
     
  44. realplayer

    realplayer Semi-Pro

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    I don't see the benefit of changing the headsize because it doesn't fit his style of play.
    He doesn't use a western grip like Nadal so what is the point to use a racket when he doesn't take advantage of the racket. It won't be an advantage at the net or for his onehanded backhand.
    Maybe he can get a 95 inch headsize but he should not go bigger than that.
     
  45. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

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    I was just giving a sarcastic answer to sureshs trolling question.
     
  46. Stevo Karlovic

    Stevo Karlovic Rookie

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    I love Fed, but his indifference with racquet technology is blatant disregard to his career's longevity. Don't bring up the age thing again. Look at the geezers on tour lately. If Roger expects to bang with Nadal, Novak, Tsonga, and Murray... he needs to go lighter, stiffer, and larger. Especially when on clay! No one should be playing with a freaking 90 on tour these days. Come on people. Embrace racquet technology.
     
  47. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    But Federer is probably the only player to get a bigger version of his favourite racket made, that is hardly indifference.
     
  48. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    You're right! Everyone should be playing with an 85 or smaller! :shock:

    BTW, there hasn't been any new racquet "technology" since the mid-1970's.
     
  49. Stevo Karlovic

    Stevo Karlovic Rookie

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    All due respect to the esteemed "Bionic Poster" (wish I had your free time brother), but your technology statement is ludicrous and plain wrong. Are you saying that Arthur Ashe or Billy Jean had the options of wielding an Aero Pro Drive or a Pure Drive? Certainly they didn't have Speedport technology at their disposal...?
     
  50. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Those are not "technology". That's called marketing. They are still made of graphite but are just made bigger and lighter by making them hollow, which is actually a bad thing. If Speedport was such revolutionary technology, why isn't everyone using it, including the pros? I mean everyone today uses graphite racquets, don't they?
     

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