Federer No. 1 — in all sports

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by DoubleDeuce, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I don't deny any of that, but you are either completely ignoring my point or you don't understand it. The point is, these lists are NOT about who can run the fastest or jump the highest etc etc... They are about who is most accomplished, and in order to "get votes" if you were to hypothetically do a worldwide poll, it's basically about which sport is most popular worldwide, and that would be soccer/football. It's a narrow view yes, and I don't exactly agree with it, but that's the way it is.

    Popularity and accomplishments are what these "lists" are about.
     
  2. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    I know that many of you (outside UK or Netherlands) have never even heard of this man but if you take account all aspects what this 'sport' requires, he's absolutely the all time king of the planet. They have doping-test etc...etc


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Taylor_(darts_player)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  3. gabybackhand

    gabybackhand Banned

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    Well I don't think Federer is the most accomplished even in that sense. In some ways he isn't the most accomplished in tennis. Old timers have done careful research and found that Laver, Gonzales, Rosewall, Tilden would all have more slams than Federer had tennis had the same format as today. Tilden, Gonzales, Laver, Sampras were all number 1 more years. Guys like Lendl, Connors, Laver, Rosewall, Gonzales, have won many more tournaments. Never won the Grand Slam. Never won 8 times at a major like Nadal. Never won multiple times on all surfaces available at the time like Nadal, Laver, Rosewall, have all done. Nadal and several others have more Masters equivalents than he does.

    Then you have people like Eddy Merckxx who has many records nobody in the history of cycling has approached. The only area anyone is equal to him is the Tour de Farce titles. Wayne Gretzky has so many marks in hockey that have never even been approached. Same with Usian Bolt and Carl Lewis in track and field, Phelps in swimming, Jordan in basketball, Jerry Rice in football, Schumacher in F1. Federer in achievements in a relative sense is not in the league of these. He is more at the level of Nicklaus or Woods in golf, neither who is head and shoulders the best (or above each other) in even their own sport.
     
  4. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah, I've been talking about him in this thread. I think he's the greatest, and I've watched his whole career as it's unfolded.
     
  5. gabybackhand

    gabybackhand Banned

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    Stop talking about a freaking dart player as a best athlete. Darts is a GAME, not a sport. There is nothing remotedly athletic about darts. Even Federer is Michael Jordan in athleticsm next to a darts player.

    What is next, Allison Fischer as the best female athlete ever. Good gawd.
     
  6. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    And he's winning all the time, despite being 53 years old. That is so sick, just won GSOD and 100k pounds. And he's so overwhelming that is just unbelievable. What a MAN!
     
  7. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Going to give Kasparov a shout as possible greatest sports/gamesman of all time given the massive global popularity of chess, incredible depth of the field and his dominance of chess which spanned 20 years.


    What factors should be considered?

    Maybe the most fundamental ones that have to be upheld are:

    Legitimate worldwide competition/superb depth of competitive field.
    Dominance and longevity of such (relative for the sport/game in question).
    Impact on the global stage, so public recognition, fame, impact on pop culture and such <-- should be considered as a primary factor?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  8. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Uh oh. What happened? :lol:
     
  9. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Usain Bolt and Carl Lewis? Well then therefore in various ways don't they approach each other? Michael Jordan in basketball: elaborate please, as many quite key records are held by other players. Schumacher in F1, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Can't really comment on Gretzky, but overall your post seems very very sketchy.
     
  10. FreeBird

    FreeBird Legend

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    In India, Tennis is Federer. 7-8 out of 10 people will say that Fed is their favorite player (Even if they have not watched single match of Federer). Out of 9 people in my wing, 8 claim that they are Fed fans (though 3 out of them don't know anything about Tennis :p) and I am the lone Djokovic warrior.
     
  11. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Especially the semi final against Adrian Lewis. Taylor won 16-9, despite Lewis having a 3-dart average of 110.99 for the whole match. I was watching Taylor begin his domination in the 1990s. Even in 1990, on the way to his first world title, he was averaging 100.50 in his world championship semi final, which was only the second time in world championship history that somebody had averaged over 100. He was 29 when he won his first world title. Now he's 53 and arguably playing to his best ever standard, and some of his rivals are also playing to a very high standard also, but Taylor tends to hold them at bay more often than not, despite him being old enough to be their dad.
     
  12. MG1

    MG1 Professional

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    who is gretzky??..people mention him regularly .
     
  13. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Wayne Gretzky, a Canadian ice hockey legend.
     
  14. MG1

    MG1 Professional

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    uhh...i don't know a single ice hockey player..!!
     
  15. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    There's a lot more money and televised big events in darts these days, the proliferation of which only properly begun maybe 10 or so years ago, which I think goes a long way to explaining the increase in the overall quality of play produced. The Lewis Taylor semi just recently had the highest combined 3+3=6 dart average ever, or so I read.
     
  16. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Why is it important for so many people that Federer be declared #1 in all sports? The concept is beyond ridiculous. I don't know what it means, except if it is just a popularity contest. Do they give out a trophy, or some other commemorative artifact to the winner? :)
     
  17. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Have you ever watched him play for the Oilers and the Kings?

    I did and I think it's insulting when arguing Phil Taylor as the greatest athlete let alone above/beyond Gretzky.
     
  18. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    I love Federer. But I also love Sugar Ray Robinson. He was 175 - 19 - 2. How do you even fight 175 times in your career, let alone win them. Mayweather fights about 46 matches or so in his career and he is one of the highest paid athletes currently.
     
  19. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Has there ever been a sports figure who personifies the term "champion" better than Federer?

    No.
     
  20. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    His daughter is pretty hot.
     
  21. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    Dunno, never seen :) but Super Mario is wayyyy above compared to 99.
     
  22. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In the 70s, there were a lot of cross sports competition among top sportsmen and all of them competed in different sports bar their own.Borg used to win a lot of those events, beating people like Mennea,Killy....
     
  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I love a quote by Jake LaMotta - "I fought Sugar Ray Robinson so many times that I got diabetes".
     
  24. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    If he is not, who is? Laver is the only player who could be credibly argued as being more accomplished than Federer and even that requires omitting many salient details. Sampras certainly is not, nor Lendl, Borg, Nadal, Agassi etc.

    Who if not Federer?

    Are you for real? Put Federer in the mid-90s and he's got multiple calendar slams. The point: picking and choosing only the titbits that suit what you're trying to argue is spurious at best.

    Offering people who didn't achieve something kudos as if they had because some esoteric era-based factor prevented them having achieved it is the same folly that sees muppets arguing that Nadal only lost a major because he was injured, or that a Murray's Olympic gold isn't legit because Nadal didn't play. It's is a never-ending spiral of idiocy to go down that path and use it only when it suits your line of argument.

    Steve0904 called it right. You miss his overall point.

    Notwithstanding your summation of where Federer is lacking is sorely lacking in itself. For example you omit to mention the type and quality of tournaments does matter, as does their historic significance. I.e. while Lendl may have won more tournaments, Federer has won FAR more important ones and consistently on the main tour whereas Lendl won tons where there was barely anyone close to him playing. Similarly, Federer may not have 8 majors, but 7 Wimbledon titles is a greater achievement by perceptual standards in terms of importance than 10, let alone 8 French Opens. They are not equal in any aspect other than for ranking points purposes. It's why one-time Wimbledon winners are far, far more revered than one-time French Open winners.

    Take Phelps' gold medal total and divide it by 8 to give a more realistic idea of his actual level of achievement. Swimming hands out medals like Tic Tacs. People can compete in more events in one day than how many Olympic meets a Decathlete can hope to compete in in his whole career.

    Gifted driver no doubt... but also gifted almost everything on a plate courtesy of the nature of the sport where the guy with the fastest car wins practically every time barring the odd anomaly. Google Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve for a perfect example of what happened in the years when Schumacher didn't have the best car.

    That depends on perception and an understanding of what dominance entails within each sport, and the nature of the sport itself. In basketball for example every winning team loses stacks of time per season right? But they're the best overall at the end of the season.

    View tennis in a similar manner you come up with no-one greater than Federer in terms of the overall balance of achievements. Does it means he's definitely greater than Jordan or Woods or Schumacher? Not at all. But he certainly has a stronger case than most sportspeople touted by the mostly American media as being all-time greats. By far in most cases. His all-round body of accomplishments is amongst the greatest ever across all sports without doubt - and in one of the sports requiring the most diverse skillsets, with amongst the highest level of professional competition and the lowest level of non-human factors contributing to results.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  25. The Isomotion31

    The Isomotion31 Semi-Pro

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    Last I checked Floyd Money Mayweather Jr. has yet to lose a fight.....
     
  26. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    The bold part says it all. I saw that match also.

    Check this out!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql3ZxqE-SAQ
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  27. kOaMaster

    kOaMaster Hall of Fame

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    The point is - only a very few sports as global popular as tennis is. Forget skiing, forget ice hockey, forget american football, forget rugby, never even bother mentioning stuff like squash, darts, sailing or the fighting/kombat sports.

    As already mentioned, there are very few sports considered as "global". Football is the obvious one, swimming, athletics, maybe basket ball, cycling or golf. Tennis is also in there (and perhaps formula one too, given the media attention).

    That is the reason why there are only few Players considered as "the best sportsman overall" and usually the winner of the laureus sports award comes within one of these sports.
     
  28. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    Very good post indeed.
     
  29. Xemi666

    Xemi666 Professional

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    So did Calzaghe, and other undefeated fighters. Your point?
     
  30. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    Rocky Marciano! :)

    [​IMG]
     
  31. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

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    'Speaking' of Floyd, I believe he went to prison for assaulting a woman (plus being involved in fights). His hands are supposed to be registered weapons...

    Woman beaters are one of the many scums of this planet.
     
  32. [​IMG]


    He won't ever catch AP McCoy.
     
  33. rockandroll

    rockandroll Banned

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    Is this meant to be a troll thread. Federer may or may not be the best tennis player ever (IMO he isnt) but the best of all time in any sport. Not even close. There are many guys more conclusively the best of all time in their sports who set far greater records and dominated longer in their sports than he did, and thus are greater. A very large list of them in fact. I guess for tennis fans they like the fantasy someone from their sport is the best ever. Tennis is one of my favorite sports as well, and I do think tennis is one of the best sports, but I will admit comfortably the best athlete ever is definitely not currently a tennis player either.
     
  34. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Oh well. It's not the first setback. Taylor's legend is already secure. Taylor won his first world title in 1990, and has dominated like no other since 1995, with the odd setback. The setbacks are likely to become more numerous as he gets older.

    Admittedly, it is frustrating that after such an excellent 2013, it ends in such a lacklustre fashion in the biggest tournament of all.
     
  35. Just a wee joke, hoping MVG wins. A bit like Nadal in 2013 great season but a disaster at the biggest tournament. (Half joking I don't want a debate at this time)

    Merry Christmas and enjoy the darts.
     
  36. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Merry Christmas to you too. I'm hoping that James Wade can recover some of his best form. I'd like to see him take the world title, but he won't stand a chance in hell on the form he has shown so far in the tournament.
     
  37. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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    Hi Mustard!

    Really hope that Jackpot is gonna win again, I bet ALOT after Power lost his 2nd round match. Obviously Gerwen is favourite but Adrian is imo so tough to beat when he is in the zone. For some reason Jackpot always plays very well in this very tournament. Last match was very promising with 103 avg :)
     
  38. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    No he's not.
     
  39. TJfederer16

    TJfederer16 Hall of Fame

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    He won't ever catch AP McCoy.[/QUOTE]

    All Mccoy does it whip a horse many times until it finishes, the riders deserve no credit at all for what they do, its just absolutely pointless, the horse does all the damn work.
     
  40. monfed

    monfed Guest

    That's funny, I concur. :lol:
     
  41. rockandroll

    rockandroll Banned

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    I agree. The medals should be put on the horses. The medal winning riders can be given a quarter for their efforts.
     
  42. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/24727297

    Tatanya McFadden has a good CV, although Paralympic sports certainly have less competition
    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...rch=tatyana+mcfadden&redirs=1&profile=default

    24 and already has 10 Paralympic summer medals (3 gold) and a winter silver.
    Won 6 golds at the 2013 world championships and did the marathon grand Slam (4 majors).
    When she retires her cv will look very good.



    Shame about Lomachenko, still should have a great career.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2014
  43. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Fed is probably among the top 10 all-time in sports, but not No 1.

    My Top 10 would be something like this:

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Pele
    3. Don Bradman
    4. Ayrton Senna
    5. Carl Lewis
    6. Wayne Gretzky
    7. Michael Phelps
    8. Steve Redgrave
    9. Michael Jordan
    10. Roger Federer
     
  44. torpantennis

    torpantennis Legend

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    ^^Karelin? Bolt? Maradona?
     
  45. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    No idea who Karelin is, which suggests that he/she was very dominant in a minority sport, i.e. one with little competition.

    Bolt is not as great as Carl Lewis I'm afraid (and you will note that I tried to put only one representative from each sport in the top ten). He may be an otherworldly sprinter, but Lewis was great at both track and field (4 Olympic long jump golds).

    Maradona vs. Pele for greatest footballer is an interesting debate. Although Pele has the greater raw numbers, he played in truly great teams. Whereas Maradona sometimes single-handedly inspired his club and country teams to victory. So yes, Maradona is a contender for such a list.
     
  46. torpantennis

    torpantennis Legend

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  47. edberg volleys

    edberg volleys Professional

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  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    His club?????
     
  49. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    How on earth can Federer be behind Phelps? The guy competes in the chumpest of all chump Olympic sports. They have so many events they hand out medals like Tic Tacs. The true value of Olympic swimming medals should rightly be about 1/5th or less than that of medals for sports like Decathlon or 100m sprint.

    I think there also needs to be a general bias against team sportspeople since they share the workload in most ways but especially mentally. People who tend towards many team sports at the highest level consistently show themselves to be mental midgets - footballers (soccer) in particular - and it's clear the team environment is what enables them to justify bad personal performances not to mention win games when they're sitting on the side-line for some or all of the game (basketball is particularly ripe for this).

    There are many ways you can argue this topic but the broad-strokes for me view many of the highest echelon team sportspeople as being far less great at sport than they ought to be considered. In a fame comparison however, they usually dominate the top levels - for obvious reasons (regular, club-based sports which are extremely easy for anyone to understand tend to gather more fans).
     
  50. Kirijax

    Kirijax Hall of Fame

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    It's always a good debate, but Federer definitely has a right to claim the best ever. What he has done over the years is simply amazing. And all those who say his record against Nadal erases that claim needs to just look at Federer's record again. That level of dominance and consistency may never be seen again. His record against Nadal doesn't make Federer weaker. It just makes Federer more interesting.
     

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