Federer No. 1 — in all sports

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by DoubleDeuce, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks, I thought it would be worth writing out the draws so we could discuss it. I'd happily extend it to looking at other good years of each like 2007 and 2009 for Federer. I am happy to see Bobby excluding at least 2007 from the weak era. Perhaps he acknowledged that Nadal and Djokovic were both strong that year.

    Now all I need to do is convince him that 2004 and 2005 were actually good years ;)
     
  2. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Sorry, my bad. It was 14....

    .....that makes it even worse! Rosewall had to play 3 matches and one of them was only best of three sets.
     
  3. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, It's my decision if I write much or little.

    Your detailed analysis does not impress me much because you over-rate Federer's opponents like Baghdatis, Blake, Ljubicic, F. Gonzalez, Grosjean and Gaudio whereas you belittle Rosewall's opponents like Olmedo (Wimbledon winner), Cooper (Wimbledon winner) and Anderson (US Champion).

    Thus you come to wrong conclusions.

    Your considering Federer's conquerors as assets in his career sounds a bit ironic: Roger LOST to them while Rosewall did not lose to any opponents in big events from 1960 to 1963...

    Gonzalez was not semi-retired in 1961: In fact he played much more than Rosewall.

    Laver in the second part of 1963 was NOT far from his highest level. Just ask Laver admirer, pc1...

    Hoad was not worn out or significantly more injured than in the end-1950s.

    Yes, I call old Agassi old (No.8 and 7 at that time). And I claim that Segura at 40/41 was a very tough player (ranked No.5 and 4). On clay Pancho Segura was arguably No.2 in the world!
    And you and other Federer worshippers like abmk claim that Federer at 27/28 was declining...

    The fact Rosewall beat Olmedo and Cooper easily is NOT a proof they were weak players. Where is your logic, young man?

    Laver clearly a rookie at the 1963 US Pro? No way.

    Facit: You have a wrong picture of tennis history. Please stay at modern tennis!
     
  4. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not overrating Federer's opponents, all those players are good players it was a point considering depth not top competition. Olmedo, Cooper and Anderson did very little in the pro ranks. Olmedo won the US pro with a pretty tiny and weak draw. Certainy a weaker opponent than most of Federer's top contemporaries.

    This is a question of competition, I'm pointing out Federer had tough opponents. Federer played more big events than Rosewall, if he just played Wimbledon and the USO he would have been undefeated also.

    I didn't say Gonzales was semi retired for the whole period but he played only one pro major in a 2 year span from 1962 to 1963.

    Laver was at his best when Rosewall straight setted him for the lost of 8 games? The fact is even by the end of the year Laver still had some ways to go.

    You need only to read match reports of some of his finals versus Rosewall to see he was 'sluggish'. He had also had some back problems by then. He wasn't at his best in the matches I mentioned.

    Agassi played fewer matches which is why his ranked dipped, he was still a very tough player also. Though almost exclusively on hard courts. Federer had mono in 2008 which caused a decline that year, he was better again in 2009. Losing a step or some motivation getting closer to 30 is normal for a lot of great players.

    Where is your logic that Federer's contemporaries were weak? The fact is guys like Cooper were just there to fill in the numbers for the most part. He made a few semi's of pro majors which isn't a great feat but that's all.

    He still in his first (rookie) year as a pro yes?

    Nah, don't think so. 40 year old Segura being #2 on clay but that's a strong era lol. We can at least say that Federer had much tougher clay competition with Nadal ;)
     
  5. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Bobby, Anderson is a US Champion, but an amateur champion 1957. Anderson beat Luis Ayala in the QF, some Davidson in the SF and Cooper in the final. Cooper himself reached the final by going through Patty and Flam. I believe that in 1957 the best players in the world were Gonzales, Hoad, Rosewall, Trabert, Sedgman, Segura, Kramer? The same is true for Cooper.

    I guess that Baghdatis, Blake, Ljubicic and many other solid players could have won slams in the mid 2000's in the absence of 5-6 of the very best players.

    So it is dishonest to acclaim Cooper and Anderson as slam winners and dismiss Gonzales and Baghdatis because they are not. Baghdatis and Gonzales played against a full field, Cooper and Anderson player against a field depleted of several ultra-dominant all time great! By the way, when Cooper had to go through pro instead of amateur, his results weren't the same any more!

    Another point which comes mainly form other posts of yours. You often doesn't mention Nadal as Federer's competition in the mid 2000's, or dismiss him as not important because still developing. You leave out that they played a lot between 2004-2008, and you also leave out that Nadal was the number 2 in the world with a huge margin as soon as 2005, when we won 11 tournaments, including RG, 2 clay masters 1000 and 2 hard-court masters 1000.

    Your main argument is the following: Nadal can be neglected among Federer's competition because he was still developing, which is shown by the better results he would have on HC and Grass in later years.

    Yet, you do not apply the same rule for Rosewall and Laver in the early 60's. You do not consider that Laver is a negligible opponent in the early 60's, despite the fact that he was a new pro who was going to be a lot better in the following years.

    So both Federer and Rosewall have very similar "strength of opposition" trajectories. In their most dominant years, both of them competed against past their prime or injured opponents (Gonzales, Hoad, Segura, Agassi, Hewitt), contemporaries players who were stiffled by them, and all-time great who weren't in full flight yet (Laver, Djokovic, Nadal). Both of them would struggle against these younger opponent, either as a result of them being inferior, or them being older.

    Yet you continue to mention Baghdatis as one of Federer main competitor in his peak instead of Nadal and acclaim Cooper as a huge titan of tennis because he won some amateurs slams in the absence of the true titans of tennis.
     
  6. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, I have asked you to focus on modern tennis...

    Olmedo, Cooper and Anderson did not do very little in the pro ranks: Olmedo: US Pro, Cooper: European GP, Anderson: Wembley!!

    How strong Anderson was you can see if you know that Mal beat peak Newcombe twice in 1972/73 when he was already 37/38. Anderson even had two matchpoints against peak Connors in 1974 when being semi-retired and already 39!

    The three "weak" players had also Gonzalez, Rosewall, Hoad and Laver as tough opponents...

    Gonzalez in 1962/63 was virtually retired.

    I did not say Laver was at his best at the 1963 US Pro. He was very strong then and lost to Rosewall clearly as he also did two years later in the 1965 US Pro...

    Hoad had always back problems...

    Cooper was there to fill in the numbers: Are you kiki 2 ???

    Laver was not anymore a rookie pro when losing to Rosewall in mid-1963. He had improved already a lot.

    40 years old Segura was great on clay. He had Rosewall, Gimeno, Gonzalez, Hoad, Cooper and Trabert as very strong opponents on clay!

    Please ignore tennis history! It's too difficult for you, as you always are showing...
     
  7. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe tomorrow.

    I did not know that Anderson won Wembley. Impressive that he went through Rosewall, still not an all-time great though. He didn't make another final at a major for 13 years after that anyway. Olmedo has a weak draw to get his US pro. Enlighten me about the European GP what is impressive about that? Guys like Nalbandian and Davydenko have won the YEC and multiple masters. I don't see any superiority from the 60's crop.

    And Darcis beat Nadal at Wimbledon at 29 etc...winning the odd match is all well and good. But unless he was winning tournaments against those guys it doesn't say much. Did he win those tournaments?

    Yes...but this says nothing about their strength. The point is not that they were bad players. It's that they weren't better than Federer's second tier competition.

    Which is essentially what I said.

    I'm not going about how strong exactly Laver was, the fact is he was still improved as he was even in years like 1964 where he clearly dominated Rosewall.

    You don't believe he had this problems or you don't believe he was hindered by them? You jump on anyone that questions Nadal's fitness yet deny Hoad was hampered by back problems?

    I don't either of us (kiki and myself) are happy with that comparison ;)

    Improved a lot but had a long way to go still.

    Near 30 year old Trabert and 40 years old Segura, Cooper who made just one semi at the French pro. Gonzales only played the French Pro a few times. Were there some other major clay tournaments which he proved his mettle on?

    I'm enjoying you trying to pass off 40 year old players as excellent competition while belittling the likes of Agassi who was 6-5 years younger when he competed with Federer.
     
  8. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Flash, I just did not want to read your post further after you had written "some Davidson"! You should know that Sven Davidson from Sweden was an all-time great claycourter: No.3 in 1957 (amateurs), French Champion in 1957, twice runner-up there (to Trabert and Hoad), the best Swede prior to Borg...

    Nadal was only 19 when fighting against Federer in 2005, Laver was already 24 plus when playing against pro Rosewall in 1963. Big difference of these rookies.

    You say it yourself: "result of being inferior (Federer to Nadal, Roger was only 29) or getting older" (Rosewall to Laver, Muscles was already 33 when Laver dominated him clearly).

    I never claimed that Cooper was a titan! Just an excellent player who almost made the Grand Slam in 1958...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  9. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, You are too nasty and aggressive to me. Reason is that you have a prejudice towards me, and , like abmk, you are fighting EVERY word I write to you. The last time for a good while I will answer you. Remember you were on my ignore list already earlier. pc1 would say:" it's not worth to answer" (you).

    I hated that you use words like "rubbish" and "foolish" towards me.

    I have not studied tennis (history) for more than 40 years to be treated as a schoolboy by a 23 years old and by other Federer fanatics!

    It's significant you did not know Anderson's biggest achievement where he beat Sedgman, Rosewall and Segura in a row!

    Anderson semi-retired after 1966, thus his "poor" record from 1967 to 1971.

    Cooper won the European Grand Prix over Gimeno, Anderson and Segura. You had claimed Cooper did little.

    Anderson, Cooper and Olmedo, while strong players , were just the second echelon at the pros. The first echelon were Gonzalez, Rosewall, Hoad, Trabert, Sedgman, Segura and Gimeno. Buchholz between them.

    Mal Anderson did win the 1973 HSW Championships with wins against Newcombe and Rosewall. At 38...

    You can't await that a 39 years old Anderson wins a tournament where peak Connors is involved.

    "semi-retired" is not "virtually retired". Be correct!

    You had "asked" me if Laver was in best form when he was crushed by Rosewall in the US Pro. Now you write you are not going about how strong Laver was...Stay logical and honest!!

    In 1964 Laver did NOT clearly dominate Rosewall! Rosewall was the official No.1. Furthermore Laver won at Wembley in tough five sets when a few net-cords decided the match. At the US Pro Muscles was handicapped by a food-poisoning.

    You try to misunderstand my words: I wrote that Hoad was always hampered by his back injury (already in his amateur years) and not even more in the early 1960s...

    Trabert at 30/31 was still very tough on clay.

    Segura won several strong claycourt tournaments when being 40/41.

    Good-bye. Maybe see you again after you have learnt history...
     
  10. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I have a prejudice to your ********. Like you going into that thread on Aesthetic shots and writing this...

    [/QUOTE]

    You're the most pathetic and un-objective historian I have ever met.

    Now I'm being aggressive. Before I wasn't. Study the difference.

    Don't post like a fool then. Your constant belittling of my favorite player grates on me.

    Try to have some semblance of objectivity then.

    Impressive. Nalbandian won the YEC beating Federer and won 2 masters going through Djokovic, Nadal and Federer in a row and then again Nadal and Federer in the same tournament. So maybe Anderson is worth including next to Nalbandian

    Perhaps that era isn't so strong that a man can 'semi-retire' and still come back at do very well at age 38+. Even much better players than Anderson wouldn't be able to do that in this era.

    One big title is little really...

    He made 3 semi's at the pro majors in draws where you only have to win a couple of matches max to get there.

    Yes but their records aren't really better than many players who were around in Federer's era this is the second echelon. Hoad was somewhat hindered by injuries and Gonzales was semi-retired. Hoad actually improved again in 1963 because he wanted to play Laver.

    Sometimes these peak champions lose early because they're not really invested in going all the way.

    Semantics. The point is he wasn't a constant force anymore.

    Yes I asked you if he was in his best form, the answer is no. In 1963 he was as many years from his best form/year as Nadal was from his in 05/06 really.

    1967 for Rod and 2010 for Rafa's, though some think 2008 was his best year.

    Circumstances aside Laver still won those matches, he won 2 majors to 1, dominated the h2h and won 11 titles to 10 IIRC. Under most systems he would probably be considered #1 for the year. By the same token Rosewall won 2 majors in 1965, so perhaps the official rankings should switch I don't know.

    I don't try to misunderstand anything. Write more clearly or don't complain when someone misunderstands you.

    Yet you don't think Agassi could be very strong on hard courts still at an age between those players?

    Hypocrite.
     
  11. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    I don't really consider him a historian any more.

    Yes, I know he has studied tennis history for many years and written a few books (published privately and which hardly anyone has read).

    However, I could do the same thing, starting today at age 30, and write privately published books with minute details on the careers of Sampras and Federer....and then 35 years later, get into endless arguments with much younger posters on forums because I am retired and live alone.

    None of this would make me a true, objective historian.

    There are many true tennis historians and experts, many of whom are well known.

    BobbyOne a.k.a. (can't write his real name) is a fraud, a Rosewall and Nuesslein fanatic posing as a true historian, both in the real world and online!

    You will notice that I never reply directly to him any more, because he is not a serious person (although he claims to be) and is not worth talking to!
     
  12. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I don't want to badmouth him really. Especially when he can't see my posts anymore ;)

    But he is clearly very biased towards old tennis and clearly dislikes Federer.
     
  13. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    1983, My Rosewall book was quoted in the New York Times. It was a significant source for the Rosewall articles on Muscles in Wikipedia as well.

    As you know, a certain Bud Collins has called me ( and written so) the Vienna Visionary and the Authoritative Austrian. Imagine what he would call you.... Other historians like McCauley, Bowers, Little and Metzler have appreciated my work...

    Why am I a fraud?? Please give details for your interesting thesis!

    You can't write my real name but you have done so some weeks ago!!!

    I'm also a fan of K. Kozeluh, Plaa, Ramillon, Vines, Kovacs, Segura, Gonzalez, Laver, Hoad, Sedgman, Anderson, Roche, Mecir, Haas and others...

    Thanks a lot that you will not answer my posts. I'll do the same...

    Just a last question: As you have told us posting on TT is just a GAME for you- why then do you write annoying and nasty things?????
     
  14. Martin J

    Martin J Professional

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    You can think of yourself as an objective historian, but who you truly are is a person stuck in '50s and '60s, with a nasty (negative) obsession with Federer, who considers every single before-open-era-professional tennis player as an all time great, putting everyone who played tennis after '68, in Open era, in second tier.
    Which is tolerable, because it's your choice and personal preference...until the moment (which happens basically always) when you star to bash anyone who doesn't support your superiority theories" of '50s and '60s (actually Rosewall's) tennis player(s) over today's.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  15. 6-3 6-0

    6-3 6-0 Hall of Fame

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    "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" - This perfectly fits the self proclaimed "historian" TrollyOne :lol:
     
  16. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Trolling 6-3 6-0, have you read post 763??? Where is a self proclaimed "historian"???

    I agree with your first statement: You know little or nothing about tennis history!
     
  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Martin J, If you would read my posts you would know that I don't put everyone who played after 1968 in second tier!

    I put in first tier Laver, Rosewall and Borg. All of them played after 1968. Learn tennis history!
     
  18. 6-3 6-0

    6-3 6-0 Hall of Fame

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    Please teach me some proper history about tennis, Mr. "Historian" (and not the same BS that you post over and over again) :lol:
     
  19. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    absolutely hilarious and at the same time pathetic to see someone saying 40 year segura was so strong, yet denying that 35 year old agassi could play some great tennis on hard courts .. only in the la la land of BobbyOne ...
     
  20. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    He is up there with the best ever.
     
  21. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Trolling 6-3 6-0, Why "Historian"? Are N.Y. Times and Bud Collins not enough for you???.

    I can teach you: Tilden, Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver are greater than your darling!
     
  22. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    abmk, When did I say that Agassi could not play some great tennis???
     
  23. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Gotta lol at Bubba's naked Fed hate!! :lol:
     
  24. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The way you constantly regurgitate Federer beat OLD Agassi to minimize his achievement sure doesn't sound like you praises Agassi playing great tennis.
     
  25. 6-3 6-0

    6-3 6-0 Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    Anything more that you would like to teach me, TrollyOne? :lol:
     
  26. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah. He knows a lot about history. But it's a shame he doesn't know a lot about the present tennis. And he is very biased towards the past. I guess, excluding past 20 years, it's amazing to listen to him. But when it comes to the present tennis, I take everything with a grain of salt.

    Seriously, how can I take someone seriously, when they exclude Fed from the top 5 list? I mean, what on Earth?

    The guy has all important open era records. And every tournament when top 10 shots are featured, usually almost half are from Fed. This is just crazy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I must contradict you: I don't know about tennis history. As Phoenix1983 said: I am a fraud!

    I have Federer at No.5 regarding achievements.
     
  28. objectivity

    objectivity Banned

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  29. ubi1

    ubi1 Banned

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    Does anybody here watch Boxing?
     
  30. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Why five? Those guys you put in front of him didn't have all the shots Federer has. And they had worse footwork than him. Also Federer is faster. Those guys don't have the same hand acceleration.
     
  31. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Esther Mary Vergeer won 42 Grand Slam tournaments, 22 year-end championships, and 7 Paralympics titles. Vergeer was the world number one wheel-chair tennis player from 1999 to 2013. In singles matches, she has been undefeated from January 2003 till her retirement, and ended her career on a winning streak of 470 matches.

    She is often mentioned as the most dominant player in professional sports.
     
  32. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    jg, Not all the shots? Worse footwork? Federer faster? Now it's clear: You never saw a Rosewall or Laver match!
     
  33. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    I didn't say faster in speed. But racket/hand acceleration. Also not by much, the differences are very small.

    And some ballet teacher once analyzed Fed's movement and proved Fed uses the best bio-mechanics.

    I saw their matches only on internet/tv. I never saw Fed live either. But I can still see the difference to the naked eye. Also, Laver himself put Fed as the best of modern tennis and I think Rosewall as best of pre-modern tennis.

    What makes you think those guys are better than Federer? Give me some details.
     
  34. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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  35. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Actually he put Rosewall 6th of pre open era players.
     
  36. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, my mistake. I don't pretend to know about history. I said that for history, I think Bobby has the knowledge, I don't argue against that.

    I just doubt his knowledge about his present. Because he says some crazy things. Like older guys are faster and better than today.
     
  37. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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  38. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Well Laver's ranking isn't cold hard fact, Rosewall probably deserves to be higher than 6th. I personally have him top 5 all time.

    Some of the older players were great athletes, Laver and Rosewall were both very quick movers. I don't think they're necessarily as quick as the current top 4 but they're not that far off.
     
  39. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, Laver's ranking isn't cold hard fact. But I would still rather listen to Laver than Bobby. I'm sure Laver has thought a lot about this list and is very qualified to say.

    And I agree with you about older guys being great movers. I just say Fed was better, margins are low here. I never said those guys aren't great movers and fast.
     
  40. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Weak Era! Sorry, couldn't resist!
     
  41. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    No, there is no case for roger being the greatest in all sports.

    he is the greatest tennis player ever but in other sports guys have dominated more and longer.

    muhammad ali, babe ruth, michael jordan, michael phelps and lebron james dominated for over a decade and never had a nemesis like nadal.
    federer on the other hand dominated for 4 years and then was dominated by nadal while still being in his mid 20s.

    you just can't compare that to jordan or ruth who dominated the game till their late 30s (yes I know it is a team sport).

    if you don't like team sports muhammad ali was unbeaten from age 19-28, then lost to joe frazier then he lost only one more fight till 1978 when he was 36.

    tennis is not as age friendly but fed would have needed to continue dominating like in his peak years at least till 2012 (when he was just 30) to be considered equal to Ali or jordan.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  42. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Federer, Borg and Rosewall probably have the best footwork I've seen. Rosewall's height probably makes it a bit more difficult in comparison to guy like Federer who is 6'1.

    I take Laver's list to mean he wasn't hugely impressed by Rosewall's peak play.
     
  43. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    But that's not fair to compare. In tennis there are different courts and conditions. In basket and boxing and swimming it's one court and set of conditions. Easier to dominate in less dimensions.

    And comparing Jordan and Babe when they have a team of greats to back them up and help them?
     
  44. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    I would add Laver to the list of best footwork. Sampras has amazing footwork, I thought for a while Pete was the best. Until I saw Fed and Laver.

    Also, on clay Rafa should be right there at the top. I think his clay footwork is amazing and underrated.
     
  45. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal has great footwork, but I favor Federer's compared to his when considering slicker surfaces like grass and blue clay ;). Nadal has more explosive movement. which combined with his still stellar footwork makes him a better mover.
     
  46. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Fed is the blue clay goat. Nobody can dispute that.

    But in general on clay, I'd say Rafa and Fed are equal. Maybe Rafa even a bit better. Fed is smoother, but is a bit slower compared to Nadal and doesn't slide as well.

    Rafa on clay is explosive, faster and slides like on water. It's great to see. Also, Nadal's anticipation on clay is great. I also rarely see Rafa out of balance on clay. But even when he is, he is so explosive and can still turn the point around.
     
  47. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    You can't compare sports on an equivalent basis like this... Each sport has a general competitive lifespan and extended/unique ones. For tennis it's about 10 years and then 15 for a unique one. For golf however it's 25 years plus, more in unique cases. For boxing it can be anywhere from 5 years to 20.

    Similarly if you were implying Jordan dominated more and for longer then we could just as easily look at it another way. He dominated more because he competed in a weak era? The argument seems to fit for Federer haters so why not Jordan? The fact he was so dominant and picked up so many MVPs surely must have relied at least in part on him playing in a weak era? :wink:

    Jordan also didn't dominate for longer than Federer in another key way: He only won 6 NBA championships - which are the pinnacle of a basketball career. The comparable metric in tennis is (historically at least) a Wimbledon title, of which Federer has 7.

    There are a myriad of ways to compare sports-people and all have flaws. But to merely point at someone like Jordan as say he was this or that without putting his career under the same brutal scrutiny that is levelled at Federer's is hardly doing the topic justice... and that's not even starting on the other detail, that team sports are generally for athletes who are great in one, two or maybe three areas but are very often sorely lacking otherwise (mentally especially) - in contrast to tennis players who have to be good at pretty much everything to get anywhere at the top of the game.
     
  48. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    The thing is dominating in tennis is much harder. In boxing there is one court always the same light and no wind. In less dimensions it's easier to dominate. You only need to distance yourself in one category from the pack and you will dominate.

    But in tennis it's like we have several sub categories. Almost different sports. We have such different surfaces and balls change. Also the heat factor and wind and light. And we have elimination in tennis. In basket you can lose a match and still win a tournament. In tennis you can't.

    Also in tennis you are on your own. You don't get coaching, nobody can replace you when tired or injured or bear a mental burden for you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  49. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Well let's not eliminate all players of the past. Guys like Roy Emerson, Borg among many others were known for being fantastic runners with great stamina.

    Emerson for example at the young age of 14 high jumped 5'10" and broad jumped 22 feet. That's at age 14! He was a fantastic athlete.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1076117/index.htm
    http://www.sahof.org.au/hall-of-fame/member-profile/?memberID=377&memberType=athlete

    How would they do with modern training methods and diets?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  50. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    How would today athletes do without modern training methods and diets?
     

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