Federer on time violations (With a little dig at Rafa).

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Paul Murphy, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    Roger Federer says that the time taken in between points is being violated and that officials do not properly enforce it enough. At the Grand Slams, The ITF allows 20 seconds between points, while the ATP allows 25 at its tournaments.

    "I do believe the officials could be a bit more tough on timing," he told reporters at Indian Wells. "I'm not complaining a lot, but I don’t know how you can go through a four-hour match with Rafa [Nadal] and he never gets a time violation. It’s natural that even I would go over time, but they never remind us. There are times when they could be a bit more firm. Because at the end of the day, I don’t know if fans are getting frustrated to watch five points that are going to take us five minutes."

    However, Federer is not in favor of installing shot clock.

    "I hope it does not go that far. All of us should be able to agree of something that is possible. But you don’t want to lose fans because of that."

    Tennis.com
     
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  2. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Federer is just right. I love tennis, and would love to watch Djokovic or a Nadal. I don't mind watching them in a stadium, btu when you want to catch some tennis in a busy day on tv, they are really frustrating to watch.
     
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  3. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    Fed is going easy on Nadal. Rafa has ruined the sport for me, he's simply so frustrating to watch due to all the time wasting.
     
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  4. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    I'm inclined to agree with him. I actually think the time between points at the majors should be increased (20 seconds really is nothing) but sometimes it can get silly.

    And I know it's not just us hardcore fans who get wound up by it, when Wimbledon was on some of my work colleagues were winding me up for liking the sport and mentioning the ball bouncing, towelling off, adjustments etc. They might not have found it as annoying as they said they were, but they certainly noticed it.

    I don't want to see point penalties or anything, but maybe a few more polite reminders from the umpires in the middle of or early in a set. It might reduce the need for a time violation warning when things start to get tense later on.


    Saying that... I do actually like that tense feeling deep in a set when someone is taking forever, it's like a "will they/won't they" get a warning sort of thing. The more drama the better.
     
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  5. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    A shot clock will make it more exciting for fans, just as hawkeye has made it more exciting. I wish Federer would support a shot clock. Surely he knows umpires are afraid of stars. A shot clock is the only solution.
     
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  6. tenniselbow1

    tenniselbow1 Rookie

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    He's just saying what 99% of the tennis world have been thinking for years. Sadly we may need a few more GS finals between the two biggest violators in the game to make it happen. I'll be tuning on and off within a match, for these encounters myself if they're to occur.
     
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  7. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    the problem with a shot clock is that it doesn't go well with concentration and players tension in the dramatic parts of matches.
    a player should be 100% focused before serving, and a shot clock will simply ruin that.

    it will be more simple to just make the chicken judges follow a 20 or 25 rule.
    don't forget the are exceptional long dramatic points that need more than 25 seconds.

    but i'm sure Rog speaks for all of us on that matter and i hope they'll come up with a solution.
     
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  8. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    Very hollow solution from Federer. We all know the umpires aren't going to listen to Federer. They are just going to do what they want regarding loose enforcement. Shot clock is the only solution. The umpire can turn the shot clock off after certain points. That can be left up to the umpire.
     
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  9. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Here's a quick and easy solution: don't watch him. The dude plays a handful of matches in every tourney he's in and you can easily avoid him until the SF/F stage, if he makes it that far.
     
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  10. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Shot clock is a stupid idea, esp when all you need is for the umpire to keep track of a period of time.

    Players would serve in time all the time if there were a penalty and the problem would go away.
     
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  11. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with a shot clock. Nadal's lungs will be on fire and he can't win that way. :D
     
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  12. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    If foot faults were not called they'd happen most of the time.

    Time limits are not called then they happen most of the time.

    The umpire has timing systems = just enforce the rule.
     
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  13. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    The shot clock is even easier Namelessone.

    Nadal is not ruining tennis, but he's inspiring pro's and young kids to do the same. Sure, if you are allowed to do it, you should.Defenitely helps your game. But, you shouldn't be allowed.

    A shotclock would make things exciting. It would take some time for everyone to get used to, so start with a few challengers, or a few ATP 250's/500's. After that, the 1000's and slams can follow. Nadal and Djokovic CAN learn to play quicker, and it won't be more exhausting because someone's gonna give in earlier.
     
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  14. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    "All you need"? You talk as if this is an easy thing. Umpires enforcing the time rule has never happened, despite it being in the rule book. It's not going to happen. A new enforcer is required. The shot clock. The umpire can still have the discretion to turn the shot clock off if he feels the previous point was exhausting etc. or maybe the rule could be that shot clock is turned off once the game reaches deuce (if 'drama' - as mentioned by the other poster - is a reason to take longer, which I don't necessarily agree with).
     
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  15. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    Either way, Federer has once again proven to be the most useless President in ATP history. Simply suggesting that the umpires should enforce the time violations, when he knows full well it will never happen.

    Time to reduce the human error in umpiring. Hawkeye worked. And a shot clock will too.
     
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  16. Wilander Fan

    Wilander Fan Hall of Fame

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    Not sure about the actual rules but when does the clock start? If the clock starts immediately after the previous point then it is a bit unfair to enforce the time violations as strictly as a shot clock since ball boys have to move around and fetch a ball etc. Maybe it should start as soon as a player is handed a ball but I keep getting images in my head of Nadal walking around the court trying to avoid the ballboy so the clock doesnt start.

    OTOH, if they can figure out a simple and fair way to have a shot clock, it would make for some interesting tennis...especially on big points.
     
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  17. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    I think the whole rule needs to be reviewed, because at Wimbledon 2011 I saw Nadal being warned by the umpire despite the real problem being Del Potro interrupting Nadal's service. Del Potro wasn't ready to receive so Nadal stopped the routine and then re-did the routine.
     
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  18. vernonbc

    vernonbc Hall of Fame

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    Everyone that's hollering for a shot clock says it should be used all the time...except for maybe when the crowd is too loud...or maybe when the players have played a particularly long and hard point...or maybe when the ballkids haven't gotten the balls to the players quickly enough...or maybe when a huge gust of wind comes up...or maybe when this happens or that happens. A shot clock isn't going to solve a darn thing because every time the umpire used his/her discretion for whatever reason, certain people would gripe and complain anyway that it was unfair or that the umpire is favoring one player or the umpire is inept or some such nonsensical thing.

    As Woodrow has explained many many times, the 20 or 25 seconds isn't a hard and fast rule. It is discretionary, and the umpires are currently using their discretion, but no amount of explanation stops all the criticism. On another board, a poster got in touch with some official at the ATP and after many tries got an answer to his questions and that is that the 'clock' doesn't start at the instant the last point ends, it starts after the umpire has called the score. This poster then sat there with his stop watch and timed a bunch of matches and lo and behold, Nadal and Djokovic and Wawrinka and Isner and Berdych and all the slow players almost always served within their allotted time.

    It would help if the tv commentators could be informed about how the rule is applied so they could quit passing on incorrect information to their audiences. They and some of the print media who have bees in their bonnets are causing a lot of problems instead of being objective in their commentary.
     
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  19. vernonbc

    vernonbc Hall of Fame

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    Nadal got an awful lot of unfair flack for that match. People thought, and the media did as well and reported it incorrectly, that Delpo was hollering at the umpire for the time that Nadal was taking for his injury. He wasn't. He was yelling at the ump because he had been given a 'soft' warning for the time he was taking to serve too and he was very upset, saying they (he and Nadal) weren't upset with each other so why couldn't the umpire just let them play.
     
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  20. laughingbuddha

    laughingbuddha Rookie

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    A shot clock allowing 30 seconds between points would be more than reasonable.
     
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  21. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    I tend to agree - but it could be a 'silent' one which only the umpire gets.

    The system could work that is the player hasn't started their motion and the times is up the umpire must immediately warn the player, not after the point.

    That would speed players up like crazy. Imagine bouncing the ball 15 times and being just about ready and the umpire chiming in with "time violation Mr Nadal"...

    The system would also cater to special situations where both players are exhausted 5 hrs into a match... but would help prevent the time wasting - the likes of which Nadal was doing when Federer was on serve at the AO, which is basically cheating when you think about it. It not really any different to saying "stop I'm not ready" just as your opponent is about to serve each time.

    That semi-final sealed the topic for me. Nadal's time-wasting has gotten to actually be unsporting as much as it is simply boring for spectators.
     
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  22. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    ^^^^^^ good points.
     
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  23. monfed

    monfed Guest

    It's in violation of the rules and must be dealt with immediately. There's just no two ways about it. The "spectators getting bored" doesn't even arise although I can understand the boredom issue.

    I actually blame Federer for not being more assertive about this ,being the president of the player's council. I can't believe he can let something that's a blatant violation of the rules pass him by while he's in a position of power(especially when it affects him BADLY). He cares too much about his image and while his image is in top shape, his results are taking a beating. If anything , I'm truly shocked he took so long to speak up about it when he should've gone full tilt when Ljubicic brought it up way back.

    Nadal does everything he can possibly do to win, Fed doesn't and this is the biggest difference in character for me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2012
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  24. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    A silent shot clock is another way of saying that the umpire has a clock and can tell the time an can penalize.

    They're obviously instructed not to enforce the rule strictly by the body that selects them, for whatever reason.
     
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  25. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    This, I agree with. It's just another way of going easy on the umpires. You're an umpire for a reason: Enforce the rules, punish the violaters or don't get into the profession at all. Umpires these days are mostly scorekeepers and not much else.
     
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  26. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Why doesn't Nadal just stop cheating??? What's with this guy? Taxes, MTOs, time violation. It's just insanity what they let him get away with.
     
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  27. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    hey!!
    Djoko time violates too!
     
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  28. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Nadal is far from the only one taking too much time. It's silly to call him out alone for this.
     
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  29. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    I agree, Djoker needs to shape up too
     
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  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Silent clock is better. Loud clock puts mental pressure on the players and the viewers.

    It is also a violation of workers rights.

    Remember Charlie Chaplin's City Lights? How he made fun of the industrial engineering experts who installed clocks and tried to make workers into robots? Some sweatshops today even time the bathroom breaks.

    How would you feel if someone followed you around at work with a clock?
     
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  31. aprilfool

    aprilfool Guest

    I wonder what the vice-prez has to say about this? :twisted:
     
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  32. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    i agree with the Shot part regarding nadal... the clock, meh...
     
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  33. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    This is false. I've timed Nadal, Djokovic, and Del Potro and they still consistently go over the allotted time, particularly in close score situations. Even if you shaved off the 5-10 seconds they still go way over.
     
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  34. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    I can't help think that television and its commercial demands are somehow behind the laxity in enforcing the time rule.
     
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  35. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    He says wait about 55 seconds more, he might give an answer.
     
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  36. tenniselbow1

    tenniselbow1 Rookie

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    Yeah this was obvious garbage. What's important to know here is what the rule states, does the clock start at points end or when the umpire calls the score. I've never read anywhere that the official rule is when the umpire calls the score. That said even if that's the case 8/10 points still go way over, there is no question about that.
     
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  37. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    telling it as it is
     
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  38. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    The official rule is that the time starts when the point ends. The clock is on the umpire's PDA, and actually gets reset when the umpire pushes the score button. So, the umpire's clock starts anywhere from immediately to a few seconds after the point ends. If something happens right after the point, like a code violation, or discussion, etc., it may take a few seconds to reset the stopwatch.
     
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  39. fed_rulz

    fed_rulz Hall of Fame

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    they don't play commercials in between points....
     
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  40. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    There's no commercials as such but they love to chatter on tv. The argument would be that the play tends to slow to fit televisual presentation and commentating, not to allow ads.

    People tend to think that content fills time slots, but its the other way around. Time is re-shaped to fill the content needs of the televisual medium.

    Sometimes Federer plays so quick that you can hear the commentators growing frustrated by being unable to milk the drama with their commentary.

    No such problem with others.
     
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  41. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    Let us not forget the big one wink::wink
     
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  42. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    pretty much the rest of the fans and players want Nadal to STOP wasting time and play the game fairly, with dignity !
     
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  43. monfed

    monfed Guest

    I see your point but I didn't hear any such issues in the 90s when Pete(quicker than even Fed) was playing.
     
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  44. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    now... that is ok...

    :)
     
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  45. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    oh... now it' Federer that plays too fast!

    man.. the drugs do work!!!
     
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  46. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    In which case the most notable time abusers still go far over the allotted time. I've timed Nadal, and he consistently takes 45-55 seconds, occasionally well over a minute (and he does get away with it) in close game situations, particularly on his serve.
     
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  47. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

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    Haha not too much of a dig. Everyone knows that Rafa takes a long time. It's cute that Fed cares about the fans first and foremost. You really have to like the guy.
     
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  48. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Many players take well over the time limit to play points, but it's hard to bring in a shot clock, that feels like forcing the pace of the game just as much as some players slow it down, because sometimes you do need some extra time. I forsee situations where players get in trouble where they stopped because someone in the crowd was moving or a ballboy was not ready or something had blown onto court etc and the umpire is not smart enough to give some leeway.

    The thing that frustrates me about Nadal more than the time between points which lots of people do, is the fact that after 10 years as a pro he still can't be ready to do the coin toss or sometimes finish warming up when umpire calls time. I mean I can understand in the middle of the match not being able to keep track of time but when someone calls time, get a move on dude.
     
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  49. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Well, if you still believe that he doesn't do it on purpose after all this time, I have a racket signed by all the GOAT candidates since Jesus to sell you... ;)
     
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  50. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    well yeah i dunno if it's on purpose or he just doesn't care, but i think it's kind of rude to not show that professionalism after so many years in the game and 10 slams and being number 1 in the world... you know he is not some new kid on the block
     
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