Federer one handed backhand short ball put away analysis

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by sportsfan1, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    I have seen during matches that Federer will run in from the baseline and put away a short ball with the *one handed backhand* topspin cross court shot. The ball is not necessarily very high, can be medium height around waist as well.
    The racquet moves very quickly and the ball travels very fast as well and dives/bounces in the middle of the court past the opponent at the net . I am interested in the mechanics of this 1HBH short ball put away:

    1) grip, how hard/soft its hit
    2) How hitting this from the middle of the court is different from the 1HBH topspin cross court from baseline (going by the speed of the ball, it seems to be hit equally hard but with more topspin perhaps?)
    3) Any videos offering replays, slow motion or analysis of this. I couldn't find any.

    Thanks a lot.
     
    #1
  2. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    Grip is a standard backhand grip. Eastern I believe, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    Yes, it's hit with more spin. If you want to do this as well, you're going to need to bend your knees and get under the ball, and get good racquethead speed for the topspin. I'm trying to find a video for you, there has to be one out there.
     
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  3. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    It is like a serve return - short backswing, little follow-through. The ball does not need to be hit super-hard since the distance is much shorter.

    No need to spin it hard either unless the ball is below or around the net cord level. In general as you move closer to the net, you hit with less and less topspin up to slight underspin (standard volleys).
     
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  4. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    Topsin is the result of "hitting from low to high."

    That means really dropping the head of the racquet very low
    before starting the forward swing.

    [​IMG]

    Look how low the head of the racquet is in photo 6 above- down at the knees.

    Yet, a fraction of a second later in photo 7, the head of the racquet is already up to the level of the chest high ball.

    And just a fraction of a second later, the rapid low to high racquet movement continues on the follow through above Fed's head in photo 8.

    That is hitting low to high.


    Accentuate the low to high even more for more spin.

    (Hit somewhat less low to high to drive the ball more.)
     
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  5. vincent_tennis

    vincent_tennis Professional

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    What? =A=
    Have you SEEN ANY of Federer's "put away" backhands?...
     
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  6. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    All, thanks for the great responses. I can hit the short ball put away if I hit the stroke in a very deliberate and measured way, without much speed. But when I try to hit it harder, it goes long (would have been a very good topspin drive from the baseline though), which leads me to think that its the heavy topspin part that I am missing.

    If you swing very fast low to high, the ball is going to travel further, right, and thats how you hit from the baseline, so there has to be some difference (grip, mechanics) gives the stroke more topspin and causes it to dive bomb around the service line when hit hard from closer to the net?

    Yeah, a video would be great, its a great shot, so dunno why the video is hard to find.
     
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  7. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

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    #7
  8. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    The key is in photo 6 of the backhand sequence I posted above.

    To hit with more topspin you have to drop your racquet head even lower while it is still behind you.

    The problem is because your hand/racquet is behind you, you can't see it.

    But you can feel that is lower than usual.

    [If you are still in need of a visual cue, when you drop your racquet really low behind you, if you look at your elbow it is pointing nearly straight up (not out and up like usual.)]

    Bringing the racquet head up rapidly from that very low racquet head drop will give you the big topsin you are looking for.

    I hope this helps.
     
    #8
  9. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    NO
    you have a mistaken concept
    imho
    swing speed has nothing to do with distance:shock:

    have you heard it said you have to swing faster/harder for a good second kick serve than a flat serve???


    the difference is how much you come UP the ball for topspin vs how much you hit THRU the ball for drive

    even tho you you are low to high for both shots

    look at the first link of fed vs blake and watch how FAST feds racket head speed is

    but he BRUSHES the ball to get the spin so that it dips

    he is not using gravity to bring the ball down by hitting it softer/slower
     
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  10. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    There is excellent knowledge on these forums, thanks for all the info. It seems from the videos that the swing path on the short ball 1HBH put away goes across the body and ends up more on the shoulder(kind of like a swat), whereas the baseline top spin 1HBH finishes high above the head.
    Regardless thanks for the info again, and correcting some misconceptions.
     
    #10
  11. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Here's another, sort of similar one in that it uses lots of top spin. Commentator calls it "sensational backhand. working the angle here, like a south african diamond cutter" :). I can see hitting this on the FH side, but with 1HBH? its insane!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdL8nQpQBZg&t=3m50s
     
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  12. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    #12
  13. pondus

    pondus Rookie

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    With a one handed backhand, you should be able to create a lot of topspin even if the ball only bounces up to your knees, I'm not sure how it works, but I see people do it all the time, even though there clearly is not a lot of low to high, but more of a stabbing action
     
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  14. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    :lol: always like it when Robbie Koenig is commentating
     
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  15. corners

    corners Legend

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    The illustrious Talk Tennis poster "tricky" explained how this is done in a post from a couple years ago:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/show...light=federer+produce+heavy+shots#post1765275

    Look at the EDIT at the bottom of post 27 in that thread, and then there is some elaboration in the next couple of posts.
     
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  16. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for linking that thread. In Post 27, when poster "tricky" says "As he is setting up his unit turn, he'll flip his racquet upside down, but still on edge.", Does it mean the racquet head is pointing down to the ground, but with the edge perpendicular, just before he starts the forward swing, as shown in pic 6 of post#4 from charliefederer? If not, any pics or references to time in a video of the BH would help greatly in visualizing this?


     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
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  17. sportsfan1

    sportsfan1 Hall of Fame

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    Yet another cool Federer BH short ball put away

    Since I can never get enough of these videos, or tire of watching them over, here's one of Fed putting away a short ball behind Nadal, from the Indian Wells 2012 SF:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XclgoAIq_9I&t=51m18s
     
    #17
  18. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    The key is very loose wrist and a lot of wrist action (supination plus some more wrist). Not much arm swing in horizontal direction. At the point of contact his racquet head movement is mostly brushing up the back of the ball without much pushing forward. This is a very difficult shot for most of the 1HBHer's because most hold the racquet too squarely. With such grip wrist movement is restricted along the arm swing. Try holding the racquet less squarely (more angled) and roll the wrist. To be able to hit this shot you need a very strong and loose wrist and good control being able to brush up with the wrist snap. Lots of practice and getting the feel and gaining control is required.
     
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  19. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Lots of good comments already. Pay close attention to Federer's grip. I see so many players with 1 handed backhands that with a slight grip change could be hitting heavy topspin rather than knuckle balls.
     
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  20. fasfsfgs

    fasfsfgs New User

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