Federer speaks up against time wasting (cheating) !

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by sbengte, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Link to the French article titled "Roger Federer stands against Cheaters" where Federer expresses strong views against time wasting between points :

    http://www.24heures.ch/federer-eleve-contre-tricheurs-2011-09-02

    Google translate with small corrections. (better translation welcome)

    ------------
    Cheaters unpunished

    As we know, lax arbitral body reacted the venerable members of Wimbledon this summer. They promised loudly to enforce the chapter 'timeout' Code of Conduct to the letter. Was it a deliberate or an announcement effect? Go figure. Apparently, this initiative was not followed, unintended effects. Or, otherwise, they have escaped. For Novak Djokovic continues to bounce the ball eight to ten times before serving and Rafael Nadal still uses the same tricks to irritate his opponents, forced to the heels on the other side of the net.

    Without mentioning this particular case, Roger Federer regrets the impunity of cheaters and emptiness of the catalog of sanctions. "A warning is not sufficient punishment, he said. That is even a joke. When I sit in front of my TV set and the players use and abuse of over-time, I, like any viewer switch channels . And it hurts me for tennis. Without going overboard and without prejudice sometimes extenuating circumstances, the offense should be punished by a penalty point and a fine no less. Only when touching the wallet of the players will it prove to be a deterrent. "
     
    #1
  2. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    As a viewer I do not mind time violations,

    I think at heat of the moment it adds to the drama and thats good

    As a player, I dont know. I have seen Tsonga, and some others playing Nadal complained. But I dont know if I would or not.
     
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  3. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    The wallets of some abusers are deeply lined, only penalty points will make a difference.
    [​IMG]

    Great thread !
     
    #3
  4. LuvTheGame

    LuvTheGame Banned

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    There is a lot of merit to what Federer is saying. And I feel the same way about the high pitch shrieking on the women's side!

    Agree that neither will stop until the tennis associations decide to impose penalty points. Since they have not to date then I am guessing somehow it helps the ratings.:confused:
     
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  5. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    People have different rhythms to play. And they should try to respect other players rhythm.

    As a viewer it doesn't bother me at all if a player takes time between points... TBH I hadn't even ever noticed it before I read tennis forums (I had sometimes noticed some players playing very fast, for example I remember Ríos would often not even wait for the crowd to be quiet).
    If anything it adds drama.

    BTW, that article appears to be ridiculously biased. See how it just assumes that Rafa is trying to irritate opponents with that (and it doesn't assume the same about Novak).
     
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  6. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    I'm guessing they decide to let players play their game. And let the results be decided by the players and not absurd penalties.
     
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  7. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Federer is right. Every players should follow the rules to make the game fair for everyone and no one have any distinct advantage, restore the integrity of the game. Cheating is wrong, and must be corrected.

    I'm glad Federer speaks up, show some leadership. Nadal can learn from Federer to become a better person, he's like a bigger brother.
     
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  8. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    Whether or not you're a rhythm player, you should NOT abuse time limits over and over, period.
    I think Roger got asked this question because so far his service games have been so quick that it had comms discussing all over how nice it is when someone doesn't need all those exaggerated routines and just plays the way tennis has been played over the years. They were taking digs at Nadal all the time talking about how he takes more time to prepare for his serve than Roger will normally do for an entire service game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
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  9. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Spending some more time to serve is not cheating :rolleyes:

    And anyway, a rule is hardly a rule if it's never enforced.
     
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  10. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Nadal doesn't really do it anymore, nothing compared to 4-5 years ago.
     
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  11. Down_the_line

    Down_the_line Legend

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    Don't get worked up or anything.

    How do you know he's speaking out about it "all because he doesn't win titles anymore"? What a ridiculously dumb generalization. But of course, veroniquem has it all figured out!
     
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  12. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    Maybe you should try to not get annoyed by such insignificat things.

    The time limit is 25 second, on paper. In reality is not enforced. That is the reality. And that is probably because a. It's too little time (which is for that matter the opinion of the poster here who is an umpire) and b. It could lead to games being decided by the umpires instead of the players.
     
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  13. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    If he knows there's a limited time frame between point but still ignore it by keep taking more time is cheating. Nadal certainly knows what he's doing but still abuse it b/c the umpire are too afraid to call it.

    Today, Ferrer got a warning by the umpire for taking too much time. Unlike Nadal, it was unintentional, but still got docked.
     
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  14. LuvTheGame

    LuvTheGame Banned

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    I just quickly checked the ITF/USTA ruling on serving time. The server has 20 seconds from the end of the previous point to get the ball into play.

    Even if the receiver is ready after only 10 seconds, the server can serve any time up to 20 seconds, but he/she must be reasonable about controlling the pace of the match.

    Therefore it stands to reason that the server also has to be reasonable in not serving too quickly. It's also just fair and honorable and practical.

    Tennis with its grand tradition supposedly stands for and teaches great ethics and morals. Not the players responsibility to enforce the rules, so what’s up ITF/USTA?
     
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  15. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

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    So, why do Nadal's fans are arguing here? Fed doesn't mention it. I also think that he is correct because he is following rules.
     
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  16. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Because his tone is bitter. And embarrassingly grandiloquent/melodramatic: "it hurts me for tennis" :roll: Seriously? He talks like a Joan of Arc impersonator: he represents the Nation of Tennis and he's suffering martyrdom for its sake :???:
    Pllllllllllllease. (Bring the fire already :twisted: - joke-)
     
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  17. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    What if my rhythm is to take 2 minutes between each point, is that ok, should it be respected?
     
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  18. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's what great about the sport....it has to be tough, it has to be challenging. Players must be tested, have pressure, overcome all obstacles.

    Could you imagine the NBA remove the 24 seconds violation? It would be boring. Just like Fed say it's boring if tennis don't have time limitation.
     
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  19. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    Regardless of the nearly-irrelevant why for the comments, this is really a common-sense issue:

    1. There needs to be some sort of control on how long a player has.

    2. There is such a control -- the rule just needs to be enforced. Players will adjust if it is.

    The problem is that it is not currently being enforced.
     
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  20. ViscaB

    ViscaB Hall of Fame

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    Just introduce a bloody clock and there is no more bickering.
     
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  21. lendledbergfan

    lendledbergfan Rookie

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    Take it this way. If a Rafa fan like me, who follows every bit of news possible on him, has bought (and read his autobio), and who even argues with others on internet forums on why Rafa's MTOs are not fake yada yada yada can get annoyed/irritated by his excessive-toweling, time-taking between points, then imagine (okay, the irritation is not that exaggerated as it looks, but it stills irritates me quite a bit sometimes, especially during non-critical times in a match) what effect it will have on passive followers of the game, or those who are not Nadal fans -- it easily gets magnified. And that IS detrimental towards the game, in general.

    Your part on "In reality is not enforced" .... that is what Federer is saying ... that this rule SHOULD be enforced. And I agree with this.

    And as a fellow Nadal fan, there is no need to take offense to it. It is NOT cheating ('coz he is arguing against the decision of the umpire, the umpire HAS to enforce it, and when umpire does give him a warning, he does speeds up). Nadal is a human, and he is not perfect. Similarly, federer is imperfect too. But Nadal is still one of my favorite players ever.
     
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  22. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I wish you had done that 10 years ago b/c I don't think Nadal would have 10 slams today if the clock system was enforced.:)
     
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  23. lendledbergfan

    lendledbergfan Rookie

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    This is a harder problem than just introducing a clock. Because even the ITF does not want to STRICTLY enforce this. Like, it is fine for players to take more time (like 35sec.) after a brutal 20+ shot rally. Or it becomes difficult when right before the serve routine, there is a disruption in the crowd, and then the clock will have to be stopped. Ultimately, the decision again goes back to the chair umpire on when to start/stop the clock, when to enforce the clock (not after a 20+ shot rally or something) and when to not.
     
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  24. So he wants most of the tour to get point penalties and be fined. Ok.
     
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  25. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    They can take it. :)

    On a more serious note, a clock shot or something like that would be tough to implement in a sport like tennis.

    To me, the solution is simple: MAKE THE UMPIRES ENFORCE THE RULES!

    The problem is that the governing body doesn't seem to be encouraging the umps to do so.

    The question is: WHY?

    Everybody's talking about Nadal here and he is the worst offender but there are many who are right up there with him. Djoker was right up there with him not long ago, guys like Wawrinka and Mathieu were going 7-8 seconds over ON AVERAGE in last USO and so on. As you said, the examples of timewasting are numerous. I would throw coaching in there as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
    #25
  26. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

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    ^He wants the rules to be enforced.
     
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  27. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Maybe they should allow foot faults when it's late in the match and the players' legs are beginning to give out.
     
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  28. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    First of all it is not most of the tour and secondly, even if it were, who cares? A rule is a rule and it should be enforced. The problem is the umps don't enforce it and they have let the situation get too far just as they have with the grunting and shrieking done by so many players such as Azarenka, Sharapova, Nadal and Ferrer for example. Something should have been done about that a long time ago.
     
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  29. ViscaB

    ViscaB Hall of Fame

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    Basically what you are saying is that a clock would give relevance to the umpire;). You can also introduce a law where each player can violate the rule a maximum number of times per set.
     
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  30. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    For the longer rallies, it wouldn't be difficult to introduce a system where the time between points started going up if a rally lasted beyond a certain length. I.e., if the point was on-going for more than 20s(or whatever), the clock could start going up so there wasn't an inordinately short rest time after long rallies.

    Point being, this is an issue the ITF could solve if they really wanted to. We have rules for how long changeovers last, medical time outs, bathroom breaks, etc. We expect player fitness to be an issue at times, that is inherent in the use of such rules. Time between points is not fundamentally different, it's just been decided not to enforce a rule in this case and in my opinion that's a very big mistake.
     
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  31. lendledbergfan

    lendledbergfan Rookie

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    haha...that'll be cool. After a time violation, the umpire would say ... "Mr. Nadal has four time-violations remaining". In the tie-breaker, "Both players have one additional time-violation." Pretty awesome!
     
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  32. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    This most idiotic piece of argument is the argument that the 'whole tour' does it. The question as to why they do it is never asked.
    Younger players watch those who tend to represent the sport, so do other players on tour. These ' representatives' are often those right at the top of the game. And when they see such players blatantly bending and abusing time limits they think it's okay to do it. Why is it that time-wasting is increasingly becoming a trend on tour? Because players and especially the top guys are never called out, never punished for it. So they think it's okay. It's okay to take ages to come out of the locker-room, okay to to take your own sweet time before going to the net, blatantly disrespecting the opponent who's waiting for you there and then taking your own sweet time between points. It's all okay because the top guys do it and are not called out for it. So if they do it why can't the other guys? It's a chain.
     
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  33. Actually most of the tour does do it. The numbers have been posted during tournaments. I have facts. You have...well I don't know what you have.

    The reason it's not "enforced" is because it's not a big deal and no one cared until Nadal started beating Federer. Then they looked for anything they could hang on the guy. So even though Mandy doth protest, what I said was actually right on point. If it were a REAL PROBLEM this would be talked about with EVERYONE, including Federer's buddy Wawrinka. How many Federer fans here are screaming bloody murder about Wawrinka?

    It's a lot like the highway. Speed limits are generally 65 but everyone goes 75-80 because that's just the pace of the road. What I really wonder is if some of the goofballs complaining about this actually walk around during the day in a funk because "Nadal" goes over the limit by a few seconds on average.

    :)
     
    #33
  34. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    This is simply a fabricated piece of garbage. Players used to complain about Nadal's time-wasting in his initial years on tour and that time he wasn't even a big force especially outside clay. So you might as well keep this nonsense to those fools who will buy it.
     
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  35. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    [​IMG]
     
    #35
  36. Caracalla

    Caracalla Rookie

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    obviously theres is true to that but he is near retirement and tries to pull whatever he can to make it difficult for others..

    let it be the way always was..

    he's been doing his job fixing the ranking again to benefit him self when he was at the top. I don't see him talking about it now that Djokovic is at the top practically unreachable at least for this year..

    whats next.. penalty if you jump while serving like in the old days hahaha...

    just leave it the way it is.. since only few players do it.. and coincidently they are ahead of Federer :D
     
    #36
  37. You know, repeating a lie often enough doesn't make it true. Age old tactic though. If it's a Nadal problem then why is he the only one who is complained about by Federer fans when the majority of guys do it? Are you outraged at Wawrinka who takes the same amount of time? What about Djokovic, Del Potro, etc. etc. ad infinitum? Just answer that and quit tossing around insults as a defense tactic. You have nothing to stand on on this one, ok? I think you should be wary of tossing around words like "fool".
     
    #37
  38. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    Thank you.
    Rafa's intent to destroy his opponent's rhythm in between points by dawdling incessantly and miking the moments in between dry repeatedly (unless he is trying to fast serve as opponent, which I have honestly seen him do from time to time) has always been patently obvious to my eye, and it has always made him less watchable in my objective opinion. He's still a great champion and always will be but it must be acknowledged that he has suspiciously been the first and most consistent exploiter of an official lack of enforcement of a rule that was rarely if ever tested/flouted so egregiously by those champions who came before Rafa...and if you cannot admit this then you are probably biased to an unhealthy degree.
     
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  39. Dude this is an out and out lie. :lol: This is what I am talking about. You guys have no logic whatsoever about this and it's all purely based on selfish and blind hatred. Having a discussion on this reminds me an AWFUL lot of this video, with Federer fans being the "home owner" of course (in terms of the logic being applied).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=engKtLw0JTM

    If it's REALLY a problem, then talk about EVERYONE who does it. And then have the umps enforce it. Ergo, because it is not enforced and the only people who have a problem with it are related to Federer and directed towards Nadal, it's all a bunch of complete bullcrap.
     
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  40. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

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    Yes he may have a wonderful record. However now he shouldn't sully it by behaving like a bitter old fool
     
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  41. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    Then don't read it. If you don't like a person why read what he says in press conferences? If you don't like an author do you read a book of his/hers?
    He is not bitter sounding at all. He is stating his opinion about a problem that has been well-known in tennis for years and has been written about time and time again. Federer did not make this stuff up.
     
    #41
  42. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    typical blindness caused by nadal fanboyism. Agassi for instance complained about nadal's delays in 2005
     
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  43. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    I agree 100%. It has been talked about for forever yet the rules are not enforced. Crazy!
     
    #43
  44. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    its not just nadal , but also the likes of djoker, delpo, wawrinka as well ..

    Nadal and djoker are singled out more so because they are top players and more in the spotlight

    Notice federer is talking about it as a problem in general here ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
    #44
  45. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    Key words: "incessantly," "repeatedly"

    case closed
    He's an awesome champion, but such is an integral part of his game.
     
    #45
  46. Agassi also liked to "cheat" by rushing opponents. Perhaps Agassi was playing mind games? Kind of funny considering most of the tour goes over the time limit. Man, you're not listening.

    "Typical blindness caused by Federer fanboyism." See how ad hominem attacks work? It's stupid. Deal with facts. If it's a real problem, talk about everyone. Period.
     
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  47. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    No, it is only degree of flexibility where Nadal is concerned according to veronique. It if were Federer who was flexible and Nadal was quick in between points her degree of flexibility theory would be out the window in a flash! :wink:
     
    #47
  48. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    no, its because nadal was time-wasting .

    I posted about 'everyone' in my previous post
     
    #48
  49. And once again, it's most of the players.

    Anyway...I am done on this one. You guys are simply attacking Nadal. It's not an uninteresting topic, but it's being handled as a character assassination and that's just boring. It would be like if Nadal fans started going after Djokovic now for "time wasting." I realize there would be a hypocritical factor there since Nadal generally goes over the limit as well, where Federer doesn't, but if you are actually concerned about the RULE, talk about the rule, and all of the players. I don't buy into the "top players are more focused on" argument. Djokovic is the clear number 1 now and you guys are STILL focusing on Nadal. ;) You are therefore betraying your motivations.

    Again, it's an interesting topic, but to treat it as such talk about the topic. You are attacking a person. HUGE difference there. Anyway I am out for tonight. Back to real life where actual things happen. :p
     
    #49
  50. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    It is not Federer fans who are out to get Nadal. That is a paranoid way to think about it. As I said, personally Nadal's delay tactics don't bother me, but if tennis has rules, they should be enforced and the fact of the matter is they are not enforced. End of story. Don't make it into a hate thing against a player, that is stupid, especially a player who is one of the greatest in the history of the sport. Get real. The whole world does not revolve around any one player whether it is Federer or Nadal. A rule is a rule and obviously they are having trouble enforcing these rules for whatever reasons.
     
    #50

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