Federer Using Actual Retail Frames?

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by faultfoot, May 28, 2011.

  1. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Did you even read my post? Like I said, production process can make the same materials completely different. are carbon nanotubes the same as normal carbon fiber? they are both made out of carbon, shouldn't they be the same then? Manufactures are constantly refining materials, it's true throughout almost all industries. Carbon fibers are being refined everyday. To say that carbon fibers today are the same as 10 years ago are insulting to hundreds and thousands of material engineers who are working to make materials better everyday. More refined graphites mean less shockwave and even energy distribution also more durable. How do you explain that to consumers? You come up with names like K factor!

    And heads' rackets do indeed contain liquid metal. No it's not liquid, it's just a process to refine the material. Apple even bought that liquid metal company to make their products more scratch resistant a while ago FYI. You seriously need to do some research before blatantly shout out "Head racquets do not contain any "Liquid Metal"".
     
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  2. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I didn't say that carbon nanotubes do not exist. They are just not in the K90. Why? For one thing, carbon nanotubes are extremely expensive and the trend in racquet manufacturing in the past decade has been to reduce the cost of production by using cheaper graphite and more fillers. Even if a racquet contained any carbon nanotubes, it is in such small trace amounts that it wouldn't have any effect on the performance of the racquet.

    The K90 feels closer to the PS 6.0 85 because it doesn't contain any high-tech materials like HyperCarbon (which is nothing but ultra-high modulus graphite or carbon anyway). The nCode 90 may contain SiO2 molecules (which is sand) which helps to mute the feel.

    BTW, the carbon fibers used to make tennis racquets 20 years ago were of a higher quality than the carbon fibers used to make tennis racquets today because the higher quality carbon fibers have gotten so expensive and the name of the game today is cost reduction. That's why those older racquets feel more solid and less hollow.

    Graphite is carbon. Graphite is black. Ergo, "Karbon Black" = Graphite

    I also never said LiquidMetal doesn't exist. I said Head LM racquets are not made from it (or are in such small trace amounts that it would not affect the performance of the racquet). Have you ever cut open a Head LM racquet and done a chemical analysis to prove that it actually contains significant amounts of LiquidMetal? I thought not.

    Oh, and Head Titanium racquets are not made of titanium, either.
     
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  3. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Again, you have misread about what I said. I merely used carbon nanotubes to emphasize the differences two carbon compounds can have, even though they contain the same chemical composition. Like I said, K factor is just ncoded materials with more chemical bounds, thus making the material stronger. So like ncoded material, it too contains silicon oxide.

    And where do you get the ideas that carbon fibers 20 years ago are better? Because you like it better? or because ill informed people on the forum like it too? I remember reading someone from dunlop saying that old carbon fibers are not good at all that's why they have to come up with weird dampening system to get rid of shockwaves.

    old carbon fibers are less evenly distributed and formed, giving it rougher feel. that's back when natural guts are the kings, so the problem is not as pronounced. k-factor have more evenly distributed stiffer frame, making it better for poly strings. I have both PS85 and K90 and I can tell you that they are definitely very different in terms of smoothness of energy returns.

    As for liquid metal, who said head rackets don't contain them?
    http://www.liquidmetal.com/news/dsp.press.071003.asp

    Looks like it's being deployed in strategic areas of the frame to change the way racket flexes making it smoother with better energy returns on balls impact.
     
    #53
  4. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    ^What I said apparantly just flew over other posters' heads. lol
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
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  5. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, but you also believed that the K90 contains "Karophite Black". :)

    Like I said, if there's any LiquidMetal in Head LM racquets, it's in such small trace amounts that it wouldn't significantly affect the performance of the racquet.

    Oh, the graphite in the older racquets were better because they used better quality, higher grade graphite. You can buy graphite in various grades. Today's racquets use lower grades of graphite because it's much cheaper (high grade graphite has gotten so expensive because of its high demand for other industrial applications). That's why racquets today don't cost $600-$800 as they should (given the rate of inflation and that graphite racquets back in the late-70's already cost $250-$300) but still only cost $170-$200 today.
     
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  6. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    LiquidMetal is not a process - it is an alloy originally developed by Caltech.

    Carbon nanotubes are so difficult to make, even in small quantities, that they are very expensive.

    Even if these nanotubes are present in a frame, they would be in amounts which have no effect.
     
    #56
  7. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    It's a process to make metal alloy more evenly distributed. And like I said, I used carbon nanotubes as an example to show Breakpoint different two carbon compounds can be, no where have I said carbon nanotubes are in K factor like Breakpoint suggested. So read before you comment.
     
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  8. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Maybe, but this whole thing that started with N code, claiming that silicon dioxide has been fused with graphite etc seems to me to be just saying we mix sand with the graphite to lower the cost, because graphite has tripled in price. I think all the research is on how to use cheaper grade graphite and still make an acceptable frame, and then sell it to the public as fancy technology. Now they are looking at basalt fibers, which are cheaper (and of lower quality) than carbon fibers.
     
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  9. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Wow did you even read what I wrote. I've explained like 2 or 3 times already that Karophite black is just ncoded materials with more carbon bounds possibly due to catalyst added during production.

    As for the price of graphite, we are talking about around $15 or less worth of graphites per rackets today. How is that going to make the racket cost $600-800 even if the price doubles :confused: and where do you get your price for the high grade graphite? don't pull numbers out of thin air plz
     
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  10. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    I think materials have to change with today's faster, harder, spinier games after the introduction of poly. try stringing up a old graphite rackets with poly, you'll see why the materials today are superior. New materials are much better for poly. I mean nadal's hitting ball with more than twice the RPM as sampras and aggassi, who also agree that the games today are much faster, what does that tell you about the rackets today?
     
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  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The main difference I can see is that lighter racquets have become more stable, with less vibrations, but that is at the recreational tweener level.

    Nadal leads up his Bab to 11.8 or 12 oz, and whips up the frame at amazing speed using an undersized grip. To do this, he needs a lighter frame compared to the more flattish hitting heavy player's racquets of the past.
     
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  12. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    SpiNNier, dammit!!! I'm not even totally convinced it's a word, but if it is, you have to spell it with two 'N's!!!!!!

    *breathes
     
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  13. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Apologies for introducing a tangent, but look closely at the PS 85: Leaded from 2-4 and 8-10, blue tournagrip. Rog never used either.

    It looks like one of Sampras'.
     
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  14. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Definitely not the Federer version (mid-Chinese).

    Could be a late-SV based on graphics. Though, hard to say.

    Kind of glossy finish(maybe?). Perhaps an early-Taiwan version (the ones that featured the same graphics as the late-SVs).

    Cool, nonetheless. An old-school, midsize Wilson Prostaff being appreciated by the master! :)
     
    #64

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