Federer USO 04 final V Nadal USO 10 final - Who wins?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Hitman, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Just taking into the account with the form both showed in their first US Open final, who would win, if they both came in with that form respectively?
     
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  2. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Better question would be how many bagels does Federer hand out? ;-)
     
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  3. OverratedIvanovic

    OverratedIvanovic Semi-Pro

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    Nadal was dressed as an assassin at USO 2010. Not even GOAT could have stopped him from claiming the title :)
     
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  4. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Thanks for showing your true colors; Fedephant...

    Nadal would have taken out Federer. His USO 2010 form would have edged out Federer's peak (06-07) USO form.

    The main reason Federer lost his 2010 semi against Nole is because he did not want the distinction of having been beaten by Nadal in the final of every slam...

    Now in 2011, i think Federer would have defeated Nadal if he had made it to the final...
     
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  5. Gangsta

    Gangsta Rookie

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    Tough. Would have gone to 5 sets for sure, but Nadal would have prevailed. Just like he always does against Federer. Nadal of US Open 2010 was a freak.
     
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  6. Federererer

    Federererer Banned

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    Nadal's USO10 form would not have even made he finals in 04. Cakewalk draws make one's form appear better than it is.
     
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  7. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Keep on being butthurt :rolleyes:

    On a serious note, I actually think Federer would have edged Nadal at the USO at both their peaks.

    Where did you hear that from? Seems to me you talk out of you ass alot.
     
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  8. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    This is impossible to say with any definition. Rafa's road to the 2010 US Open title was beyond easy. Gabashvilli, Istomin, Simon, Lopez, Verdasco, Youzhny, then Djokovic.

    Keep in mind Djokovic notched his first win over a top 10 player in all of 2010 against Federer in the SF. Prior to that match, he hadn't beaten anyone of note all season. His form was hardly what we saw in 2011.

    I think it would be close between 2004 Fed and 2010 Nadal. I do think on a fast court like that, Fed would have the advantage. The ball doesn't kick up as high, and Roger's forehand moves through the court better. With that said, Rafa has the mental advantage, so who knows.
     
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  9. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Yeah.

    :roll:
     
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  10. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Depends. In Federer's 2004 mental state he did not have a mental problem with Nadal yet, but he also did not have the experience yet of dealing with Nadal. That's why I think Roger would have a tough time. However, the form both showed in the final specifically, Nadal stands no chance, he MAY win a set (as Hewitt almost did), but that other 2 sets I have yet to see someone stand a chance against that level.
     
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  11. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    This. The way Federer was playing I don't think it really matters who was on the other side of the net.
     
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  12. FederErizeD

    FederErizeD Professional

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    This.
    Federer would have been playing just another ordinary guy who isn't that good on fast courts AKA Nadal
     
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  13. BauerAlmeida

    BauerAlmeida Semi-Pro

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    Federer 2004.
     
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  14. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Are you kidding me? Nadal wouldn't win a single set.
     
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  15. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    No disrespect to the OP, but dumb comparison. A better question would be - USO 04 FINALIST V Nadal USO 10 final - Who wins?

    In which case I'd say, "HEWITT IN 5!!!":D
     
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  16. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

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    No one would have beaten Fed on that day.
     
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  17. 10is

    10is Professional

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    If I didn't know better I would have sworn the OP was a *******. Any rational person devoid of any vested interest in either player would not contemplate comparing Nadal of any year or form to Federer's peak years at the USO let alone 2004.

    An absolutely dumb thread, worthy of peak NSK himself!
     
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  18. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    I heard it from Deductive Reasoning; you should definitely give him/her a call every once in a while :twisted:

    In your previous delusional post you certainly did not insinuate it would be close...
     
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  19. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    I disagree; big surprise there...

    Nole USO 2010 semi and final was Nole v1.9. He played well in both matches, particularly the final...

    I also think it would be close, but given Nadal's form that year (huge serve, killer slice, great improvisation) and typical mental edge over Federer -- I would give Nadal the advantage.

    Also 2004 Hewitt was certainly not the end all be all. He had lost significant foot speed by that time, and as usual had little offensive weaponry...
     
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  20. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    USO 20004 court was very fast and not particularly high bouncing.

    Fed in straights.
     
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  21. Fed Kennedy

    Fed Kennedy Hall of Fame

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  22. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    I just think you're selling Fed short, which I should be used to by now. His peak level at the US Open is better than Nadal's peak level there. It's Rafa's worst surface, probably Fed's best...That's why I think Fed would win.

    Djokovic coming into the US Open hadn't beaten a top 10 player all year. He was still reeling from the Todd Martin fiasco, he hadn't won DC with Serbia yet...He had one Major title, and people were talking about him, asking if he'd be a one slam wonder. He wasn't the player he became in 2011, nor was he 90% of that player (IMO).

    Again, it was easy to talk about Rafa's incredible level of play, but he didn't face a high caliber of opponent (until the final, and even then...see above). Fed in 2004 faced Santoro, Agassi, Henman and Hewitt. 2005 he faced Santoro, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Agassi. Those names look a lot more impressive than Verdasco, Youzhny, Djokovic.

    BTW, all the things you mention to favor Rafa, great serve, killer slice, great improvisation...You've essentially described Fed, but Fed from 2004 you could add: best defense on HC, best forehand, great volleys.
     
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  23. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Nadal US Open 010 was the best he has ever played outside Roland Garros. Also it's the only performance in the last 12 years or so, capable of taking away a US Open from Federer. Ultimately, Nadal even at that level did not return well enough to cause Federer enough trouble. Maybe it would be enough to defeat Federer of 05, but not 04. Federer was simply too good, that year and probably wins in 4.

    Also lets stop with the revisionist history regarding Hewitt. Hewitt had not lost his speed in 04. He was better than in his younger years. He had improved his volleys, had a better slice and was just as fast as ever. Before he played Federer he was on a 16 match winning streak and just 1 in his last 22 matches. He got to the final without dropping a set and had just thrashed JJ and Haas. In fact I think he had only been broken twice before the final. It was a hugely impressive performance from Federer.
     
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  24. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I'd say Fed in 4 (that was the best I've ever seen Fed play in a slam final). though I don't know if/how much USO surface speed changed since then.

    Oh for chrissake, he almost lost to Troicki at USO that year, had no wins over top 10 player the whole year leading into USO, his SF match with was an error ridden mess and he played far too defensive in the final.

    V 1.9 my ***.

    Hewitt reached the final without losing a set.
     
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  25. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Disagree...

    Nadal has already shown he can beat a capable and healthy Federer playing well in a hard court slam final (Aussie 09).

    I also disagree regarding Hewitt. Hewitt never, even at peak, had enough offense to be consistently dominant. He also lacked margin with his flat strokes. Once he began to lose foot speed (after 2002) he was a goner as far as slam championships were concerned!
     
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  26. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    This. Hewitt played as good if not better tennis in 2004 and 2005 than he did in 2001-2002. He still had the speed, defense and counter punching, but he beefed up his groundies and had better weapons off the ground. His run up to the 04 US Open final made it look like he'd be the favorite, since he hadn't dropped a set, and Fed had been tested along the way.
     
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  27. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    Well, that was probably Federer's worst serving performance in a big match, ever. If you watched the final, you will remember how poor Federer's serve was, especially at big moments. Not his usual, A game self. AO 2009 was his best performance off the ground against Nadal, IMO, but the serve was dismal.

    Also, the AO is a far cry from the US Open, if we're talking speed of the court and bounce. You can't take a match from Rafa's absolute peak, with Fed not at his absolute peak, on a slower, high bouncing surface, and pretend that it translates to a win over Federer from 5 years before on a surface that suits him.
     
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  28. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Federer had a terrible serving day possibly due to his back in the 09 final. The Australian Open also much slower than US and it took Nadal everything he had to win it. A better, faster, more explosive Federer playing on an even quicker surface is not going to lose. Not to mention that Nadal's bigger serve would actually work against him against 04 Federer. He would be able to use the pace to block the serve back deeper.

    On the Hewitt front you are completely wrong and everyone with eyes can see it. Hewitt had not lose his foot speed and had added other factors to his game. 2005 Hewitt improved even from his 04 level. He added extra pace on his groundies and was at his very best. Hewitt could not dominate, because he got injured too much. Also even at his best he was not really better than his rivals. Roddick was better on grass whilst Safin was as good on hardcourts. To dominate you need to be a step above your competition.
     
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  29. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    I don't think there's a slam in his career in which Fed made more overall double faults than 2009 AO, has to be said though, his ground game was in excellent form in that tourney.

    This, you nailed it.
     
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  30. Gangsta

    Gangsta Rookie

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    It could have had a lot to do with his opponent too, you know. When there is mention of all this, why is there no mention of the fact that for the same final, Nadal was coming off after having played one of the longest matches in the history of the tournament just a couple of days ago?
     
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  31. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Hewitt's speed didn't take a hit until 2006. Hewitt was playing his best tennis at the time of the 2004 US Open final, on a 16 match winning streak and hadn't dropped a set on his way to the US Open final.
     
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  32. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    Fed has never served that poorly against Nadal. Not before, not since.

    And yes, Rafa was coming off one of the longest matches ever at the AO, and his win in 2009 was incredible, imo. I'm not taking away anything from Rafa's win, I just don't think that specific win means he would beat peak Fed at the US Open. That was my point.
     
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  33. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    rafa 's slice is average at best. he uses it well to change pace and dare his opponent to hit a big shot, but I wouldnt call it a "weapon"
     
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  34. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    This was the worst Federer had ever served against Nadal percentage wise. I don't have the stats, but just visibly it was less potent and slower than usual as well.

    It's true Nadal was coming off one of the longest matches in history, but at the start of the 5th set he was the fitter player. Federer was exhausted at during the fifth.
     
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  35. ChanceEncounter

    ChanceEncounter Professional

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    Federer at the USO 2004 was some of the best tennis I've ever seen played. To hand out a pair of bagels against Hewitt who was in form was hugely impressive.

    If the courts played remotely as fast, I don't see Nadal winning. On a slower court, Nadal would have a much better chance.
     
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  36. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Not wanting to get into an argument as usual, but I don;t think much parallell between Federer at The AO in 2009 can be drawn with Federer at the US Open in 2004. Vastly different courts and 5 years apart. Nadal at the AO 2009 and US Open 2010 is a bit easier (though he had a better serve in 2010 US Open) but there's still a big difference in surface.

    Not that I'm saying Federer would win. It's too hard a question in my opinion. Who knows? I only rule out a straight set win for either player. I think if it were a case of 2004 Nadal PLAYING like he did in 2010, Federer would win. If it were 2010 Federer playing like HE did in 2004, I think Nadal would most likely win. The key is the mental aspect and how that effects your ability to keep playing your best. In 2004 Nadal no matter how good would probably have some doubts (like he did in 2005 miami) in 2010 no matter how good Federer played, he'd have to battle doubts, though Nadal being a first time finalist looking to win a career slam might also put him under pressure and lessen his mental advantage a bit.

    as for hewitt,see what this nadal fan says below (and a very knowledgable one)

     
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  37. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    This topic is a joke, right?

    Firstly, Nadal '10 would need to make trough the draw, not the easy one he faced in USO10.
     
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  38. Gangsta

    Gangsta Rookie

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    Agreed. But there are also a lot of other things that point to whether peak Fed would beat Rafa today at the US Open. Everyone said the same before the Aus Open final, but Rafa beat him there and also beat him this year. Hard to say, but given the wood he has on Federer when it comes to the slams, I just tend to think it would go the other way around. Plus, we also need to factor in how bad Hewitt must have played in that final, if that scoreline is any suggestion. The biggest problem I have is the suggestion that a win or a loss either way, is always on Federer's racquet. That is pure fanboy-talk, just not being able to give the opponents their due.
     
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  39. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    I agree with all of this, with the exception of Hewitt in the 04 final. His level that whole tournament was very, very high, Fed was just too good. Fed's level from 2004-2006 was damn near untouchable at most tournaments. Rafa got him twice off clay in that time frame, which was really impressive at the time.

    You're right, Rafa has a total mental edge on Fed, but Roger is still capable of beating Nadal, especially when his game is clicking. I think you take Fed's level from 2004, on a surface that is one of, if not his strongest, and Nadal's weakest, and Fed is the favorite. Not saying Rafa wouldn't raise it up a few notches or Fed wouldn't choke, but from a matchup perspective, the US Open would favor Fed.

    I wish we'd seen Rafa/Fed at the US Open in 2006, 2007, or 2008. It would have been a great matchup, I think.
     
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  40. ChanceEncounter

    ChanceEncounter Professional

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    lol, leave it to DRII to make a completely nonsequitur argument. Yeah, Nadal beat Federer at the AO 2009. But what does that have to do with his USO 2004 form? It would be like saying, given Nadal's form at 2012 Wimbledon, Federer would have cleaned his clock at 2010 USO. lol.
     
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  41. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    The Nadal of 2010 would not have even reached the finals if he'd played on a court as fast as the 2004 US Open. That was a lightning quick court.

    Much less could he have beaten Federer.

    Nadal would have to play defense all match long and hope Federer's off. That wouldn't happen.

    Federer in straights.
     
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  42. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Federer would easily win in straights.
     
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  43. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    i 2nd everyone who said fed in straights
     
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  44. Ico

    Ico Hall of Fame

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    So I take it that the scenario takes Nadal from 2010, monster serve and all, and travels him back in time to play in place in Hewitt. Federer in straights.
     
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  45. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Nadal was on a mission that tournament to complete the Career Grand Slam. No way Fed of 2004 beats him. Heck he had to go 5 with a 34 year old Andre that year
     
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  46. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Man... it's almost INSANE state that Nadal '10 would kick Federer '04 ass in USO '04. Come on.
     
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  47. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Very tough to predict.

    Federer played insane that day and with the kind of winners he was smacking, I would like to say Federer in 3 or 4. However, you also have to consider the match-up issue and Nadal playing his best HC tennis as well.

    I think Federer would either win in 3 or lose in 5.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
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  48. SLD76

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    if their meetings at the WTF are anything to go by..and given that the USO that year was fairly fast and not high bouncing

    then yeah, Fed in straights.
     
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  49. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    The US Open is outdoors.
     
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  50. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    I'd take Federer in 3 or 4.
     
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