Federer USO 04 final V Nadal USO 10 final - Who wins?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Hitman, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Yup and I have a hard time convincing myself that Nadal playing his absolute best would fail to win a single set from Federer at USO 2004. Federer dropped sets to 19 year old Baghdatis and barely pulled out a win against Agassi that year.

    Just because Federer fed Hewitt two bagels, does not mean Nadal will get the same treatment in a match. Once Federer hit his prime, Hewitt's game stopped bothering him all together. He would just hit right through Lleyton. More powerful baseliners like Agassi/Nadal don't have trouble generating their own pace and have better success keeping up with Federer from the baseline.
     
    #51
  2. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    uh huh, and in 2004 it was a very fast HC, unlike IW, Miami, AO or Wimbly after the first week.

    so yeah, Fed in straights.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
    #52
  3. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    The problem with Fed on that day in 2004 is that his forehand was practically beyond comprehension and far more brutal or damaging than Nadal's is or has been on the surface. I'm not sure how Nadal could have survived the onslaught, really, with the fast conditions and the pretty low bounce.
     
    #53
  4. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    that last sentence bears repeating.

    also, for the tards, there was barely any wind in that final.

    so, fast court, no high bounce, no wind.

    tell me how nadal would win again?
     
    #54
  5. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Quite honestly the dumbest post ever written.
     
    #55
  6. westside

    westside Hall of Fame

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    No one could have beaten Fed in the 04 USO.

    Fed in straights.
     
    #56
  7. kabob

    kabob Professional

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    So then the Hewitt that got to the '05 Australian Open final less than 6 months later and went toe-to-toe to an in-form Safin was a totally different player?
     
    #57
  8. USOpenfan

    USOpenfan New User

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    Fed was unstoppable in the 2004 USO. I just looked at some footage online to brush up on my memory of these two USO's and I woulld say Fed 2004 USO would win in a close 4 set match. If it went to 5 sets I would have to give it Nadal.
     
    #58
  9. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Federer is three relatively comfortable sets, maybe a tiebreaker in the last if Nadal is lucky.

    But even then, I'm stretching.

    ...Really, this isn't even a close contest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
    #59
  10. ZeroSkid

    ZeroSkid Banned

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    Nadal in straight sets without doubt
     
    #60
  11. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

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    Nadal couldn't even straight set a mediocre playing Djokovic. Are you telling me Djokovic played better than an on-fire peak Federer hitting Rosolwimby2012 forehands the whole match would have? Lol. Hint: when Nadal runs into an on-fire offensive player, he gets crushed.

    Fed in 3 or 4, with possible bagel to start off the match like in 2006 wimby.
     
    #61
  12. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Ignore him ledwix, it's just another *********.
     
    #62
  13. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    Nadal won't stand a chance.

    Everyone knows Nadal had the easiest draw in history of tennis to win the USO 10, no way he will get another lucky break like that, let alone beating a 04 Federer on U.S. soil.
     
    #63
  14. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    Federer is the better hardcourt player, by far, so you would have to say at their best Federer wins comfortably.
     
    #64
  15. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Nadal wouldn't win more than 6 games.

    Everyone knows this.
     
    #65
  16. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    AO 2009 final was not Nadal's absolute peak. USO 2010 final was a higher standard as far as hardcourt tennis is concerned.


    The best I've seen Nadal (and Nole btw) play is 2008, partciularly the Queens Club final that year -- minus the 2010 USO serve...
     
    #66
  17. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Don't feed them too much truth. They might get even more crazy and delusional on us!
     
    #67
  18. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Preach Gangsta, preach...
     
    #68
  19. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    This bears so much repeating and emphasis.
     
    #69
  20. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Truth?

    HAHAHAHA
     
    #70
  21. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Yes, however Nadal had those things in the 2010 USO along with his usual outstanding attributes (great spin and margin, killer left hook, speed and endurance). He upped the ante on those specific aspects of his game, actually he always been a great improviser -- but his slice and serve were extraordinary at the 2010 USO...
     
    #71
  22. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    he would not get away with rallying ten feet behind the baseline on the fast USO court of 2004 with God Mode Fed.
     
    #72
  23. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    I actually pretty much agree with what you've said here... Mental edge to Nadal was certainly a factor in me giving him the advantage over Federer peak vs peak in a USO final. Without the mental edge; I'm not sure who would win.

    Completely disagree with Mustard regarding Hewitt! Hewitt was always a transitional champion in my eyes. He had amazing heart, speed, and racquet head skills but never had the offense to truly dominate. Plus, once the surface homogenization, poly strings, and decreasing foot speed came into the equation; that was it for Hewitt.

    Agassi was starting to figure Hewitt out even before he became slower. The one thing Hewitt and Federer have in common is their coming of age at the hands or by the hands of Agassi. Once both beat Agassi their confidence started to really take hold. Hewitt also had to deal with Sampras much more so than Federer...
     
    #73
  24. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    utter drivel.
     
    #74
  25. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    2010 USO was fast, much faster than 2011 USO...

    I thought Nadal had a near perfect balance between offense and defense (on a hard court) at the 2010 USO.

    Nadal 2010 form was even good enough to make it a close match with Federer at the London WTF; a court he absolutely hates to play on...
     
    #75
  26. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    How about explaining how or why you disagree; instead of attacking :confused:
     
    #76
  27. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Is it just me or does it seem like he's watched very little of the players he is discussing?
     
    #77
  28. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    So i guess you saying that Federer is rarely an on-fire offensive player :)

    Hence his near horrible losing record to Nadal!
     
    #78
  29. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    2010 Nadal wouldn't beat THAT Agassi on THAT court.
     
    #79
  30. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    The problem is you're watching with a "Jaundiced eye" of a near infatuation of Federer (i.e. Fedephant), and therefore lack any proper discernment!
     
    #80
  31. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    The same proper discernment that dubbed Agassi Kingmaker. I don't have that sorry.
     
    #81
  32. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Who said anything about King-maker.

    I said once they got passed Agassi their confidence blossomed :confused:

    Try reading.
     
    #82
  33. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    I thought it was implied - off clay ....... where federer is 8-6 vs nadal ....
     
    #83
  34. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    that was a close match ??

    he got blasted away in the first set , federer had 17 winners to 3 winners from nadal ( IIRC ) and the scoreline of 6-3 in that set flattered him ( happened mainly because federer didn't return that well in the first set (&2nd) ) and the 3rd set was a breadstick ......
     
    #84
  35. doobiedoodoo

    doobiedoodoo Rookie

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    Fast courts and perfect or near conditions then Fed 04 in straight sets. Anything else, Nadal 10 in five sets.
     
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  36. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    well it was closer than any other Nadal vs Federer match at the London WTF...
     
    #86
  37. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Oh so he was only an offensive player on fire for 8 out of 14 meetings (57%); including several on an indoor dead court with hardly any bounce which infinitely benefits him :confused:

    And in how many of those selective 8 wins was Nadal crushed?

    Please stop digging your own grave!
     
    #87
  38. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    If we are ignoring people based on if they're a **** or not,then you should be ignored for being one of the biggest *******s on this forum.
     
    #88
  39. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    true, he could have chosen to ignore him simply because what he was saying is foolish.
     
    #89
  40. gennosuke

    gennosuke Banned

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    Seriously, the fact that this is actually debated, shows how overrated Nadal's supposed "mental edge" over Federer is. If he takes more than 1 set, I'd eat my nonexistant hamster.

    Hewitt vs Nadal would be a more interesting debate.
     
    #90
  41. illkhiboy

    illkhiboy Hall of Fame

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    Hmm, that was closer than it seemed. Nadal had a chance in the beginning of the 3rd set. He had a fairly simple backhand lined up at 15-15 in Federer's opening service game. He missed it by a couple inches. He makes that shot and ekes out a break, it'd be a different match. Of course, in the end Federer won it easily. But the margins are so small in these matches that a couple points can make a big difference.
     
    #91
  42. illkhiboy

    illkhiboy Hall of Fame

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    I am a huge Federer fan and would love to see Federer-Nadal match at the US Open but it's silly to think Nadal wouldn't have a shot to win it, or that Federer is the clear favorite. Here are reasons why Nadal would have a good chance:

    - First off, it's a myth that Nadal had an easy draw in 2010 in terms of opponents. He actually had a couple tough opponents - Verdasco on a fast hard surface is not the ideal match-up for Nadal and neither is Lopez. However it's true that he lucked out that all of them including Youzhny were coming off 5-setters and were a bit gassed out.

    That said, Nadal's serve in that tournament was astonishingly good! He would have beaten just about anyone anyway.

    - It wasn't until 2010 Madrid that Federer really began to go after Nadal with his backhand wing; a tactic that has helped him keep up with Nadal of late. And that seems to be due to the fact that his shoulder is stronger now than it used to be thus allowing him to deal with high balls easier. 2004 Federer would probably struggle with the high bouncing forehand of Nadal.

    - Federer has never returned Nadal's serve particularly well. Think back to the days when Nadal's serve was significantly weaker - he still held serve relatively comfortably against Federer. The stronger serve would likely only cause Federer more issues.

    - Mentally, Nadal has an edge over Federer. And it's not just because of the lefty forehand to the one-handed backhand advantage. It's simply the fact that Nadal seems to have an answer for pretty much everything Federer throws at him.

    Nadal plays very shrewdly against Federer. He takes calculated risks at crucial moments that almost always pay off. Whether it's a stunning volley winner at a crucial moment in a pivotal tiebreak (3rd set, AO 2009) or a ridiculous half volley forehand winner from the baseline (1-1 deuce 3rd set, AO 2009), he seems to be able to pull a trick out of his hat each time.

    People don't give Nadal enough credit for it but he's one of the best at making adjustments and finding a way to win. Perhaps he's not better than Federer at that; but if Federer plays the game, Nadal plays the man. And he knows how to play Federer and get under his skin.

    Nadal's also great at weathering Federer's storms.

    - Federer looked untouchable in Wimbledon 2008 until he played Nadal and started shanking balls all over the place.

    Here are the reasons why Federer would be favored:

    - God-mode:It's possible that a really confident Federer could just bulldoze his way against Nadal.

    - Nadal's defensive tendencies: Nadal does have the tendency to play defensive when attacked relentlessly. In fact in 2012 he's gotten better at handling it.

    In the 2010 Open final, he reverted to his defensive play against Djokovic for much of the match. Unfortunately, Djokovic took the bait and relentless attacked instead of waiting to hit out at the balls.

    Federer would be able to exploit that a bit better....but then again I think Federer of that time was a bit too forward minded player and liked to come in a lot instead of now where he is more judicious when attacking the net against Nadal.

    He paid the price for his relatively poor approach shots in the Dubai match against Nadal. Had he just stayed at the back court, he would likely have won the match.
     
    #92
  43. gennosuke

    gennosuke Banned

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    Dude, I'm way too lazy to reply to everything you wrote but you would honestly be silly that Nadal would have a chance of victory against federer at that point.

    And yes, Nadal has the edge because of his forehand. I mean seriously, that isn't even a debate. It#s easy to be mentall tough when your standard groundstroke goes to your opponents weakness and it's easy to break when you hve to take inhuman risks to just win a point.

    And he was already going at Nadals backhand as far as i could remember.
     
    #93
  44. DolgoSantoro

    DolgoSantoro Professional

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    Roger in 4
     
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  45. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Funny coming from someone that wears Nadal's underwear as a ski mask.
     
    #95
  46. 10is

    10is Professional

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    What? When and where was that little tid bit divulged? LOL!
     
    #96
  47. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    People are really bringing up Agassi?

    Newsflash: Agassi was a better hardcourt player than Nadal. And it's not even close.

    I don't care if he was old...his back hadn't gotten too bad yet, and Agassi was a lot more physically fit when he was older than he was in his prime years...some of which he squandered with his personal problems.

    He was coming off winning Cincinnati that year, too.

    Agassi would have blown Nadal off the court in straight sets that year. Guaranteed. Talk about a terrible matchup for Nadal...Agassi on hardcourt.
     
    #97
  48. prosealster

    prosealster Professional

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    hewitt was also the us open series winner comming into the open if i remembered correctly...fed was by no means a sure winner at the time.
     
    #98
  49. prosealster

    prosealster Professional

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    we are talking about final form vs final form...the form fed displayed in earlier round was irrelevant... no offence, if u played tennis tournment yourself, you would understand forms can change from match to match
     
    #99
  50. RF-17-GOAT

    RF-17-GOAT Semi-Pro

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    10Federers.
     

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