Federer USO 04 final V Nadal USO 10 final - Who wins?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Hitman, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    As if Nadal would have ALLOWED Fed to keep that form? Outside of indoors, can Fed even keep a "good form" much less "great form" vs. Nadal? I think the results speak for themselves
     
  2. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    For the sake of argument, we are assuming that both players are in their prime and in great shape. Who then, do you think would be more likely to prevail? Put your Nadal-fetish aside and be honest.
     
  3. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Nadal as in an infant was beating prime Fed on outdoor hard courts.. For the sake of the matchup issue, and the way Nadal was playing at the USO that year like a nut job on a mission looking to complete a the career grand slam. . Who could bet against Nadal? He's a nightmare matchup for Roger really on anything but indoor surfaces.

    If a greenhorn baby Nadal who had not even matured yet could beat a prime Fed outdoors, why couldn't a Nadal who came into his own by 2010 NOT beat Roger?

    Prime Roger, past prime Roger.. whatever.. Nadal is a nightmare matchup for him regardless
     
  4. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Show me the h2h between Federer and Nadal on hard courts during 2004-2007, Nadal's so called 'infant years'. Do it.
     
  5. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    USO 2004 was a fast, normal bouncing court and there was no wind that day

    The conditions seem to be similar to WTF, except faster.



    Fed was in one of the best hc forms of his life in 2004

    Agin, given that fed owns nadal indoor, how do you see nadal winning that match?

    Hell fed beat nadal in 3 in 2010, and the third set was a blowout and I'm quite sure he didn't play or move the way he did in 2004 in that match.

    If old fed beat the hc nadal of 2010, what do u think fed of 2004 would do?
     
  6. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    People forget 2010 was Nadal's BEST HC form (USO 2010).. People also forget, Nadal was serving in the 120's (sometimes 130's during the USO that year). And considering he was a man on a mission that year... No way I give Fed much of a chance. This isn't some young nadal we are talking here.. This was Nadal in the best HC form he has been in his career.

    I give Nadal the W 8-9 times out of 10 against ANY form Fed outdoors on HC if we are talking peak HC form Nadal. Because quite frankly, Fed can't keep that form vs. Nadal unless its an indoor surface.. And the USO isn't indoors.

    You can't go form for form really because Nadal doesn't let Fed get in that form.

    The two dozen times we have had a Fedal match.. I can think of maybe a handful of times (if that) I would have considered Fed to be in top form.. And thats mainly because Nadal throws Fed off kilter. And most of those matches where Fed was "in form" was indoors at the YEC.

    Outdoors its a whole different ballgame we are talking especially if we are talking Nadal at the peak of his powers on a certain surface.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  7. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Rofl@ nadal doesn't let fed get in that form

    Thank u for making my point. 2010 was rafa's best hc form...and he still lost to fed @ wtf,
    And got spanked rather badly in the third set.


    If he douldnt handle 2010 fed, how in the world would rafa deal with 2004 fed on an even faster hc with med to low bounce on a day with virtually no wind?

    Wimbledon is outdoors, fed is 2 and 1. And uso is outdoors, but 2004 court was very fast and nt high bouncing and with almost no wind. Advantage fed.
    Fed in 3.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  8. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Ummmm.... WTF was indoors. Is the USO played indoors??


    BWAAHAHAHAH... Fed in 3 vs. a peak Rafa at the USO in 2010 on an outdoor surface. Thats funny.

    I think you actually made my point. Fed can only do real damage to Rafa indoors.. Outdoors.. Again.. A WHOLE different ball game
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  9. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    How many times do I have to teell u, let me spell it out


    USO 2004 court/ final, unlike current IW, Miami or AO, is:

    1) lightning fast
    2)med to low bounce
    3) virtually no wind

    The conditions are similar to wtf, even with being outdoors, except the uso court is even faster.


    And we know what happens when roger and rafa meet at wtf.

    Now add in 2004 uso roger to see how badly nadal would be beaten
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  10. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    As long as it is outdoors, there is NOTHING guaranteed for any form Roger vs. any type of peak Rafa. Whens the last time Fed has taken Nadal out at a slam outdoors exactly?? 2007? ROFL. Indoors is a totally different ballgame compared to any outdoor hard court.. Please stop comparing the two.

    The conditions are NOT similar because one is outdoors with wind, the other is indoors with no wind.
     
  11. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Rofl...so your argument is, if its outdoors then automatically advantage rafa, even though I explained the difference in conditions between uso final in 2004 and iw, miami and ao?

    Rofl, we are done here. You have no argument

    Can u not read? I said 4 times in a row now there was virtually no wind @ the uso final in 2004. It was perfect conditions for fed's attacking game. Not only do u not know what u are talking about, u can't read either. I rather think one is subsequent to the other
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  12. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Oh and one last thing? Which I know u will dismiss it b/c it wasn't a slam....roger beat rafa in the swirling winds of IW just this year.

    If they play in a wind tunnel at the uso, roger in 4, and that is being generous
     
  13. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Pretty much. He's saying that the location the match (indoors/outdoors) is taking place is more important than the skill of the players. lolworthy logic, at best.
     
  14. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    More than that, he doesn't even understand that its the court conditons, moreso than if its outside or inside.

    Were iw or miami low bouncing and fast courts I daresay all this talk of zomg nadal owns fed outside would be nonexistant
     
  15. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    hey Gamesampras,

    federer spanked rafa at IW this year with swirling winds ...this is prime rafa vs past his best federer ...

    fact is peak roger > peak rafa outside of clay ...

    oh and yeah peak roger > peak sampras everywhere ...
     
  16. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    federer was in much worse form in wimbledon 2007 final than in USO 2004 final and he beat nadal in peak form there ....

    federer is just as good on fast HC as on grass , if not better. nadal is worse on HC than he is on grass ...

    you can get the rest ....or can you ?
     
  17. World Beater

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    Based on Form, Nadal stands no chance. Federer's level was far more impressive that day.

    But tennis is a beautiful sport because you can influence the level of your opponent.

    Nadal would present a set of problems to federer that hewitt could not. He would force federer to hit a lot of backhands, and hit winners from them - nadal is the one player who can find fed's high bh and neutralize the point from anywhere.

    Federer would not play that well against nadal esp 2010 nadal. Nadal just won't allow it. I would still say federer would win because i thought his forehand was more monstrous back then, even if his bh isnt as good as it was in 2005+.

    I also think federer was a terrible returner of nadal's serve in the early days, and now he is much much better.
     
  18. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Thats the point people seem to forget:shock: Whether Fed wins or not? Who knows.. Fed's success vs. Nadal in the best of 5 outdoors is HORRIBLE at best.

    The last time Fed even managed anything in the best of 5 outdoors vs. Nadal on any surface was 2007.. Thats a long freakin time
     
  19. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Because since then, Federer has been on a steady decline.

    2004-2007 = Federer's heyday
    2008 onward = Federer's decline

    Please, remember that.
     
  20. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    And Nadal had not come into top form by 2007.. Remember that as well. It wasn't until mid 2008-early 2009 where Nadal hit his true stride on all surfaces
     
  21. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Wtf from 20111 and 2010 belie your point.

    Rememember, 2010 was nadal best hc form, and he still lost to fed @wtf where fed returned the favor from miami where he got stomped by nadal.

    The only way rafa2010 woud beat fed 2004 @ uso is if they slowed the court to molasses and made it high bouncing and used balls slow and fluffy, and even then it would go 5 methinks.

    Id the court plays fast with the traditional medium to low bounce like its supposed to, wind or no wind, fed wins easily. Maybe in 4 if extreme wind.

    And rofl, as predicted, you ifnored the fact that fed beat nadal @iw *this year* in swirling wind

    Yeah I know it doesn't count cuz its best of 3. Lawlz
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  22. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Do you forget how well and hard Nadal was serving at the USO in 2010? I guess so. He wasn't floating shots over the net.. He was cranking serves over that net and he was playing very aggressive that tournament.
     
  23. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Yes, and fed has never defeated an aggressive, big server on fast hc before....rofl

    Ask roddick about the 140mph bomb he served to fed's bh that came back right at his feet at the 2006 uso, lol
     
  24. 90's Clay

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    Roddick's poor ground game always killed him against Roger.. It was the fact he had nothing to back up his serve.. Nadal on the other hand... has plenty to hurt Roger with:shock:


    Way to compare a career 1 slam winner Roddick who has never beaten Fed at a slam to Nadal who has crapped on Fed at the slams. ROFL
     
  25. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    I knew u would bring up ground game.

    How about this..on a court not slow as molasses where nadal can grind all day, his ground game doesn't trouble fed a whit.

    Heck, how many bagels has rafa eaten in the fall hc swing? Bagrlrd by murray in tokyo, bagelled in paris final by nalbandian one year...yet rafa would beat 2004 fed at uso lolololololololololz

    Hence his annual beatdown
    @ the wtf. So no, his serve , or playing defense 20 ft behind the court would not spare him from 2004 hc fed
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  26. gennosuke

    gennosuke Banned

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    You disgusting waste of carbon, how i God's name does Nadal stand a chance against Roger in USo 2004 F. Are you retarded or something?

    He was "crapping on him" on clay. In AO Federer was past his prime more or less. He was serving horribly against Nadal playing one of his best matches ever (quite possibly better than anything in USO 2010) and still pushed him to 5. Against peak Fed he'd be lucky to take sets of him.
     
  27. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    He's not. He's saying, if your assertion is that Nadal would have beaten Federer simply because he served big and was aggressive, why not Roddick?

    And then you immediately come to the conclusion that he is comparing Roddick to Nadal in slams. Way to answer your own question, scmuck.
     
  28. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Roddicks ground game wasn't always **** poor either. He used to have a heck of a fh. Roddicks problem was he wasn't a great mover and average defender and wasn't an otherwordly shotmaker.


    That nd roger is just better than him
     
  29. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    That, and the pointless chip-and-charges. I'd be greatly surprised if he won more than 10% of points during the season.
     
  30. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Sense and logic.

    He played a mentally shaken out of soorts fed at wimby...9-7 in 5th
    Some say rodge had a bad back ao, either way, rog served like crap..went to 5 sets
    Rog actually got a set off prime nadal on clay last year in FO final

    2010 rafa lost a set to djoker 1.0 in the uso final

    Rafa lost in 4 to 2.0 djoker(who was barely getting serves in over 100moh the last set) in 2011, meanwhile old man fed had a match pt against djoker in the 5th set.

    Yet, rafa 2010 would beat roger 2004

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaahahahaahahahaah
     
  31. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    Nadal only started getting deeper on other surfaces because the competition got weaker.

    He was in the Wimbledon finals in both 2006 and 2007. The difference between those finals and 2008 is Federer was worse than he used to be (not to mention, the court was at an all-time crawl in 2008, with them raking dirt off the baseline in the middle of the final).

    If 2009 Nadal runs into 2007 Gonzalez at the AO, he loses. Heck, it took him a tough 5 setter to beat Verdasco that year.

    If 2010 Nadal runs into 2005 Blake at the USO...it's at least tougher than any other match he played that tournament.

    Nadal just lost to Rosol at Wimbledon. How much improved is he, really?
     
  32. ZeroSkid

    ZeroSkid Banned

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    I don't think federer would even be able to get a break with the way rafa was serving in 2010
     
  33. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Bwahahahahahahaha
     
  34. ubermeyer

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    Federer easily. Straight sets.
     
  35. MichaelNadal

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    I think you're 1. forgetting how well Nadal played in the 2010 final. And 2. forgetting Nadal is already a bad matchup for Federer PERIOD, unless it's indoors. It would have been close, but it's hard enough for Federer to beat Nadal already, nevermind one that serves in the 130's.
     
  36. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Ignore the troll.
     
  37. VetoRight

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    3-6 7-6 4-6 7-6 6-2 for nadal
     
  38. SLD76

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    I think you're forgeting how goodfed was that final.

    Unless the uso court is slowed to a crawl and made to be high bouncing and they play in. Wind tunnel, its straight sets for fed.

    Anything like the conditions of the uso final of 2004(I.e. fast fast court, normal bounce, no wind) and its a wtf match all over again.


    Fed beat rafa in the wtf in 2010. How badly would fed 2004 have beaten rafa tht year?
     
  39. ryydman

    ryydman Rookie

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    Any neutral observer with any insight, should know that Roger would have struggled against Rafa in USO 2010, in fact Roger struggles against Rafa in 5 setters, with the exception of their first Wimbledon final....

    Rafa in 4.
     
  40. Federererer

    Federererer Banned

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    Dude, Federer had matchpoints on the slowest clay in best of 5 vs Nadal during his peak. That was on SLOW clay dude. You honestly think Nadal would have a chance on a fast HC at Fed's peak??????? You Nadal fans are nuts.
     
  41. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    Too much logic in this. Federer plus fast courts = surgery. 2004-08 Federer would have destroyed Nadal at the US Open.
     
  42. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    One example does not prove your point. Name another example like that,and then we'll talk. And Nadal also held mp's against Fed in Miami in 2005 on hardcourt so the same can be said for him.


    Not nearly as nuts as you Fed worshippers. Will it be you who starts the next thread about the kinds of foods Fed loves? I'm waiting in sheer anticipation. :lol:
     
  43. augustobt

    augustobt Hall of Fame

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    Man, how many times everyone needs to write that Miami is slow and high-boucing, so that favors Nadal's game?
     
  44. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    I love how people bring up the "matchup" issue, when that issue doesn't exist on fast low bouncing courts like those US Opens. Federer 04-08 would have beaten Nadal 2010 at the Open, nevermind the god-like form he was in the 2004 final.
     
  45. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    Some of the slowest high bouncing HC, that plays nothing like USO..... Nadals performance in that USO was not great by any means, Djoko played about as good as before his first USO final, less than stellar performance. His form at the French this year would have beat the Nadal in 2010 USO.
     
  46. SLD76

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    oh clarky you know better,

    u know damn well miami is a slow high bouncing hc that suits nadal to a T.,

    it is the exact opposite of WTF and USO. wtf is medium paced but low bouncing, USO, especially USO 2004 is very fast and medium to low bouncing. even in wind I say fed in 4.

    you used to be halfway reasonable, but have taken a turn since early this year.
     
  47. OverratedIvanovic

    OverratedIvanovic Semi-Pro

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    Ok lets do it your way then ;)

    Dude, Nadal won on fast outdoor HC against a peak Federer in Dubai 2006 when the former was a nobody on HC and had a WTA serve. You honestly think Federer would have a chance on against a prime Nadal on outdoor HC who was serving in late 120s and 130s? You Federer fans are nuts :roll:
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  48. SLD76

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    tards only see outdoor HC and dont take court conditions into account,

    probably because nadal is invisible in the fall HC swing.

    convenient that rafa takes the year off during the time when the courts least favor his game...rather sampras like.
     
  49. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Yeah,and clay plays nothing like the hardcourts you describe either,so why bring it up?


    Total bs. Nadal has never before or after,played or served that well on hardcourts. It was the best form he has even been in on hardcourts in his life.


    No it wouldn't have.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  50. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Oh wow, one match in a small 250 event clearly means Nadal would have beaten Fed at the US Open at the peak of his powers too. Fed bageled Nadal on clay in 07. Didn't mean anything when they met at the French.

    2004 Federer would have blown 2010 Nadal out. This is not even debatable. Federer was unplayable in that form. Nadal would have lost 2, 3 and 2 or something of the like.

    FYI, pace on serve does not beat Federer, especially in his prime. Just ask Roddick.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012

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